1st Gen 4runners???

[XJxplorer]

OK I have searched and searched and found a lot of good info but I wanted to see what some of the guys/gals on this site have to say....

I currently have an 01 Cherokee that I love to death but the mileage isn't so great on it...From what I have gathered is, the 4cyl(22rec?) that came in the 4runners actually has decent mileage. Is this true?

I also want to kind of change things up a bit and keep the Cherokee for my DD and build a 4runner for expeditions and what not. I have found a lot of good deals on 4runners but they all have blown head gaskets.. Is this common with the 4runners? I was looking at one today that is VERY clean inside and out but has a blown head gasket. I have searched around on the net and found a few places that sell remanufactured motors for about $1500..I think I would rather go that route just for the piece of mind knowing that I have an "almost" new engine...What is your take on that?

Hmmm well I had a whole list of questions but I just had a brain fart and seem to have lost them...They will come back to me soon!!

I would like to hear everyones ideas, advice, suggestions, and comments about the 1st gen 4runners..

Thanks,

Mike:archaeolo

 

[kcowyo]

Everything you need to know about 1st Gen 4Runners.

The headgasket issues were mostly in the 3.0 6 cylinder models.
My '89 4Runner with the 3.sl0 was adequete but gutless and never got better than 17mpg.

My 22R (carbureted) 4 banger got around 19mpg at best. The 22RE 4 banger with electronic fuel injection may be Toyota's best engine with mpg's in the mid 20's.

The 22RTE was a 4cyl turbocharged motor offered in 4Runners from '85-'87. MPG reports vary on the turbo models. High teens to low 20's seem about average.

The removable top on first gens was my favorite feature of that model. I would look for a 22RE anything for a DD, over any of the other motors offered at that time.

 

[Grim Reaper]

I pretty consistently hit 19 around town (the vast majority of my driving since I live 3 miles from work). I can drive 60-80 miles to the trail head wheel about 20 miles then drive home had average 21mpg. Last full on hwy run I turned 23mpg at 70mph.

I managed to get 33's on mine with NO LIFT. Not even a body lift. The key is stock offset rims. This is on a IFS truck so I don't know if you will be able to pull that off on a Solid axle.

Other then it being a slug off the line I really like it. I put a E-Locker in it and can easily keep up with my Buddy in his Unlimited 2 door Rubicon. I actually have more ground clearance.

Plenty of support for them. Pirate 4x4 has an awesome FAQ that is everything you could ever need to know or want to do. Top of the Toyota mini truck forum.

I have a solid axle that I intended to do a SAS on it but for my current needs I have shelved the idea. I want to do a lot of cross country back country travel not rock crawling so I at this point do not see the gain to do the swap.

The IFS front is VERY strong in stock configuration. Add a rear control arm mount brace carry a spare idler arm and call it good. If you lift the IFS thats when it starts putting a lot of stress on the brackets and starts cracking welds.

Best bang for the buck is the Upper ball joint spacer from www.4crawler.com and the coil trick using a set of TJ rear coils. the NEAPO lift
http://www.gearinstalls.com/dc.htm
http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showf...11919&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1

More info on mine in my Sig.

 

[XJxplorer]

Awesome, thanks for all the info so far, guys!

I don't plan on doing an SAS... IF I were to do anything suspensions wise, I would put a mild long travel kit on the front and some deavers on the rear...But that probably wont happen either...

For now I want to just pick one up and focus on getting it mechanically sound and reliable...Then start with the locker, air, and other goodies...

 

[Grim Reaper]

Awesome, thanks for all the info so far, guys!

I don't plan on doing an SAS... IF I were to do anything suspensions wise, I would put a mild long travel kit on the front and some deavers on the rear...But that probably wont happen either...

For now I want to just pick one up and focus on getting it mechanically sound and reliable...Then start with the locker, air, and other goodies...

I drool over the long travel kits but so far I have not had issue in the slow stuff after the addition of the locker. I did regear (4.88) to keep it in its stock power band. It has a respecatable crawl but for a little over $600 for the adpator $100-150 for a used transfercae and having the driveshafts done you can put a Marlin Crawler in it.

Other then taking its sweet time getting up to speed it is a very easy to live with truck. An Adult can even fit in the back seat. Its getting past the passenger seat that is the tricky part LOL.

Honestly I have never taken the top off and I even have a soft top that came with it. Having 2 kids I almost wish I went with a 4 door second gen truck. I am actually looking for something for the wife to drive since we are giving her Honda to the Teenager soon. A 2nd or 3rd Gen is on a relatively short list of vehicles we are intersted in.

 

[4Rescue]

I think (correct me if I'm worng) that I may be one of the few Gen1 Runner guy's here on the Expo. First off, good choice in trucks, the 1st Gen Runner is far and away my Favorite "mini" truck" Toyota made. teh romvable top is great for the summer, adn the overall package dimensions make a great wheeler.


Headgaskets: Yes, the 3.0 v-6 (3vz) is know to eat headgaskets (although some people have never had the problem) and is IMO a pretty useless motor. The power gains over the 22RE are minimal and the fuel consumption is considerably worse, not to mention that you can re-build a 22RE in about any corner of the world from parts on hand. The 22RET (Turbo 22RE) is known to eat HG's as well dependant onm boost and temp. I'd go so far as to say the 22RE might be one of the worlds most reliable motors (along with the 2F and a handfull of diesel motors).

Rust has been an issue with these older trucks, espescially east of the rockies. Paint is also known to be an issue, but not always. Finding a 22RE 5spd is getting harder and harder to do, but is a very desirable combo. I picked mine up for 1500 with a bad clutch and 230k on the clock and I couldn't be hapier...

For suspensions, I wouldn't look aty anything but Old Man Emu. I'm running their shocks, Steering dampner, and Dakar rear leaf springs and I LOVE IT!!!! After driving numerous Toyotas in Australia all equiped with OME and ARB goodies, I knew I couldnm't live with anything else on my own rig.

Be warned, if you tow a trailer, you will need to do an engine swap, or look into a newer Runner cause frankly the 22RE is not a big torque motor like the 4.0L you are most likely coming from. it does great, and hauls plenty of load, but within reason...

Good l;uck on the hunt and let us know how you fare. If you have any questions feel free to drop me a PM.

Cheers

Dave

 

[4Rescue]

Something to consider... they are not LARGE trucks. For me and the Girl-friend, it's great, it'll even take 3 adults out to wherever with all the gear I'd ever need, but Kids, dogs and long trips, and the 1st Gen will have you wishing you had a bigger truck.

Gearing is CRUCIAL for these trucks. I'm running 4.10's with 31's and I really wish I had the 4.56's, so now that i'm going to 33" tires, I'll be going to 4.88's. This, as stated before, brings the drivetrain back into around it's original final drive ratio I believe.

These trucks are tall and skinny for their size. My dad has and I have had XJ's, and belive me these trucks are nowhere near as low and wide as the cherokee. Add the 2" of lift and tall skinny tires, and they do require you to be conservative in teh driving department. The pay off is they have so damn much ground clearence that they make XJ's look like low-riders most of the time. That said, you WILL have to replace the rear springs unless the PO has already done it. These trucks LOVE to have saggy asses, I don't know if someone pissed in the vat of steel they used to make these springs, but they are BAGGED at about 100k with the extra weight of the hard top.

Remember, when you get into the older Toy "mini trucks", they were not as far "off the farm" (I think this is a pretty good analogy) as they are now. Aside from the IFS that came in for 86 here in the US, they were alot closer if not nearly identical to the trucks being abused well beyond they're intended function around the world (ie. the Hilux). Corespondingly, they are considerably noisier, and more spartan on the inside. Still very comfortable IMO, but just not what they are today. The AC is mediocre, and sucks the truck's power, there's alot of wind niose etc...

One last thing. There is yet another reason to look for the 4 cylinder models. Gear driven T-cases. V-6's used chain driven models...

 

[4Rescue]

here are a few pics of mine...

 

[Clutch]

Just so you know the '84-'85's had a solid front axle. So you don't have to get a IFS if you don't want to.

Mine was also an EFI.

 

[ntsqd]

'84's and '85's were SA w/ '85 being the first year of EFI std. Carbs were optional clear into '89 though, so model year alone does not insure getting EFI.

I own a 22RTE, and it has a blown HG. ARP has head studs, going to try those next.

Marlin has the adapter(s) to replace some, but not all of the chain driven t/c's with the gear drive unit.

I've ridden in a couple different Total Chaos suspended trucks. I've no idea how anything OME rides, but the TC kit swallows knee deep whoops at 30-50 MPH depending on what the crest to crest distance is.

The low buck hot rear spring combo is to use the ~63" long late GM truck rear spring. Requires major fab work, but is one of the very best things I've ever done to Patch. On a short bed pick-up that means the rear springs are nearly as long as the bed.

 

[4Rescue]

I've never even seen a TC equiped truck in the flesh as it were, but I can imagine they are awsome. Glad to see more 1st Gen'rs on this doard, I had no idea there were even this many of us.

Yes you could get a solid axle from 84-85. these trucks have narrower track widths because of the narrower axles. They also have different frames clearenced for the front axle. Very nice for keeping the trucks low. Anyone know if it's possible to drop an 89 body on an 84-85 frame?

 

[Grim Reaper]

I've never even seen a TC equiped truck in the flesh as it were, but I can imagine they are awsome. Glad to see more 1st Gen'rs on this doard, I had no idea there were even this many of us.

Yes you could get a solid axle from 84-85. these trucks have narrower track widths because of the narrower axles. They also have different frames clearenced for the front axle. Very nice for keeping the trucks low. Anyone know if it's possible to drop an 89 body on an 84-85 frame?

'
Actually they track the same with the offset wheels they came with from the factory.

The Wheel offset is deeper on the IFS trucks to make up for the wider axle width. The IFS truck needed the deeper offset to deal with the CV operating angles.

A stock IFS wheel cannot be bolted onto a Sold front axle as it will hit the caliper.

That said the extra width is desirable for larger tires so most people run a wheel spacer on the front with a more traditional 3.5 inch back set wheel instead of putting the narrower axle on. There is also conversion kits that I like a little better that uses a IFS wheel hub on a solid axle.

Look at the widening kit.
http://www.sky-manufacturing.com/axle_differential.htm

Some people will flip the side that the calliper bolts on so as not to have to use a spacer at all and go with a IFS vented disc and V6 calipers as well.

 

[4Rescue]

Thanks for the info, I didn't know that about the Chaos kit. Like I said, I can only imagine how sweet they ride when the going is fast and bumpy. THere is a guy called Death RUnner over on Yotatech that has the TC set up, and does alot of Crawling from the looks of alot of his pics, neat truck both looks and capabilitiy wise. Same with the guy the Petersen's did the write on with the kit on the 4th Gen He's also on Yotatech).

I think for my style of driving and needs, an SFA will eventualy be in the cards. That said, I really would say that the Early IFS is fine for about 90% of people who own 4x4's.

So any idea on my other question: Can you fit an 86-89 BODY onto an 84-85 Frame? I ask cause I want the lowest possibe ride height with an SFA, and the Older frames have a different front end to clear the Axle.

Cheers

Dave

XJxplorer: If you haven't been there I highly suggest spending some time perusing yotatech.com it's a GREAT resource for the N.American "mini trucks" old and new. Plus, it's not overly flame heavy like Pirate is, you will acutaly get answers instead of BS over and over again.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Thanks for the info, I didn't know that about the Chaos kit. Like I said, I can only imagine how sweet they ride when the going is fast and bumpy. THere is a guy called Death RUnner over on Yotatech that has the TC set up, and does alot of Crawling from the looks of alot of his pics, neat truck both looks and capabilitiy wise. Same with the guy the Petersen's did the write on with the kit on the 4th Gen He's also on Yotatech).

I think for my style of driving and needs, an SFA will eventualy be in the cards. That said, I really would say that the Early IFS is fine for about 90% of people who own 4x4's.

So any idea on my other question: Can you fit an 86-89 BODY onto an 84-85 Frame? I ask cause I want the lowest possibe ride height with an SFA, and the Older frames have a different front end to clear the Axle.

Cheers

Dave

XJxplorer: If you haven't been there I highly suggest spending some time perusing yotatech.com it's a GREAT resource for the N.American "mini trucks" old and new. Plus, it's not overly flame heavy like Pirate is, you will acutaly get answers instead of BS over and over again.

4 Runner frame is the same basic shape as the short wheel base truck. The only big difference is the tank mount and I think one of the cab suports in the middle.
The 2wd truck frame 84-89 (and I think up through 95) is the same shape as shape as the 84-85 4wd frame. So that would open up doaners if you want to do the frame swap.
The onther thing that may need changing is the oil pan. to get it low.

Honestly the ride hight of a IFS SAS and a Factory solid on 3 inch springs will within 2 inches or less. The advantage with the front mount is moving the axle forward to clear the cab some. A lot of people will put that forward mount on the solid axle frame for the same reason and becasue it is a little more robust then the factory mounts.

In short it would be a LOT of extra work to swap a frame only to gain 2 inches less ride hight.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I own a 22RTE, and it has a blown HG. ARP has head studs, going to try those next.

Be mindful of the ARP studs. They are not necked like the factory head bolts, which may or may not be the root cause of top end oiling issues some people get with various combinations of blocks, heads and rocker assemblies. The factory bolts are necked to allow lube flow to the exhaust side of the rocker assembly and without the necked section the flow can be impeded to the exhaust rocker arms and cam. I personally did not risk it and used OEM bolts, but Engnbldr is supposedly is coming out with ARP-like studs that have been necked like factory bolts.