2001 DW- At a Loss!!

[silvergrand]

Upgraded to a JKS Adj Track bar and my steering wheel needed to be centered. Well after the alignment and centering, Death Wobble exploded on me! Never had it before. Any ideas???

My mechanic centered the steering wheel (bigger Wrench!) and suddenly I have DW big time.

2001 WJ
OME HD Springs
Teraflex BB
New aftermarket steering stabilizer
JKS Adj Track Bar
Camber -.6 -.8
Caster 3.2 3.8
Toe .09 .11

Hit a bump at anything above 20mph and ,watch out, you are shaken to death!

Thanks

 

[cshontz]

I don't claim to be a professional mechanic. I know my way around the workings of a contemporary Jeep, but what I say shouldn't be regarded as gospel.

That being said, I think re-clocking your steering wheel was the incorrect solution to your problem. I feel a thorough front-end alignment should have solved your problems. I used to work for a Jeep outfitter - not in the shop, but to my knowledge, re-clocking the steering wheel was never part of the procedure. Maybe a tech can back me up on this.

Otherwise, just make sure your trackbar was installed correctly, and is torqued to spec. Keep in mind steeper control arm angles and incorrect caster can increase the likelihood of dw.

 

[JeepinJason]

Your caster sounds a little low. It should be in the 5-8 degree range. Granted, I'm far more familiar with XJs and TJs than I am WJs, but the setup is basically the same. Does your alignment printout have before measurements as well as the after measurements? I'm curious what your caster was before this guy worked on your Jeep.

If it's not the caster, then it's probably something loose with your new trackbar, since those are the only two things that changed. Caster is harder to check yourself, so just grab a wrench and check the axle and frame bolts for your trackbar. Make sure the jamnut on the trackbar itself is tight too.

If you have someone that can help you, have them get in the vehicle and start the motor, then have them turn the wheel back and forth about 45* from center each direction. You lay under the front end and watch for any movement or slop in both the trackbar and the steering.

 

[cshontz]

I um... when I originally replied, I thought you meant physically removing and repositioning the steering wheel. This is why I seldom participate in tech.

Anyway, I'm excited to hear what you find out. I have the same problem. It went away when they repaved my commute.

 

[JeepN95YJ]

to my knowledge, re-clocking the steering wheel was never part of the procedure. Maybe a tech can back me up on this.

DW stinks!

But, yes, the steering wheel needs to be "centered" after a lift. This is done by adjusting the drag-link. I've never needed to remover a steering wheel to
"re-clock" it.

Good avice has been given on some of the things to look for. A google search will bring up more information than you could ever want. The short answer is that nearly every part of your front suspension or multiple combinations can cause the problem.

Good luck.

 

[robert j. yates]

That being said, I think re-clocking your steering wheel was the incorrect solution to your problem. I feel a thorough front-end alignment should have solved your problems. I used to work for a Jeep outfitter - not in the shop, but to my knowledge, re-clocking the steering wheel was never part of the procedure. Maybe a tech can back me up on this.

Otherwise, just make sure your trackbar was installed correctly, and is torqued to spec.

The second part of this advice is spot on although I disagree with the statement about recentering the steering wheel. If he has a lift and had not previously installed an adjustable trackbar, then I would think that if his steering wheel was centered before the adjustable bar, it would make sense to recenter it after installation of the adjustable bar as it had already been adjusted.

Your caster sounds a little low. It should be in the 5-8 degree range. Granted, I'm far more familiar with XJs and TJs than I am WJs, but the setup is basically the same.

If you have someone that can help you, have them get in the vehicle and start the motor, then have them turn the wheel back and forth about 45* from center each direction. You lay under the front end and watch for any movement or slop in both the trackbar and the steering.

Again, I agree with the advice but not the initial statement. I ran for some time with a caster at 3.5* and while not optimal, it did not invoke death wobble. Typically, low caster results in slow return to center and all other things being in good working order, not death wobble.

It sounds to me like a couple of things are happening. First, it appears that you probably do not have adjustable control arms which is what is causing your low caster numbers. Second, you installed a new piece of suspension equipment.

Given these 2 things..... Jeeping Jasons advice to have someone turn your steering back and forth while you observe the suspension will probably be the thng that leads you to the source of your problem. I am suspecting a loose trackbar or bad control arm bushings in what appear to be stock control arms.

It would also be helpful for you to identify your rims and tires.

 

[goodtimes]

How was the steering wheel re-centered?

Typically, in a two wheel alignment, you would center the steering wheel before you start (tires may be pointed left or right slightly...but you start with a centered steering wheel). Then you adjust the passenger side toe, via the drag link (basically--in an overly simplistic way, you align the passenger side tire to the steering wheel). Next you adjust the drivers side toe-in, via the tie rod. This aligns the drivers side tire to the passenger side tire (which is already aligned with the steering wheel). Now, both front tires and the steering wheel are all aligned

I set the total toe-in at 1/8" on my TJ. Any more than that, I run into DW problems. You are pretty close to that number...but if you can't find anything else wrong...you might open it up a little.

Another common source is the lower track bar mount. If it ain't tight (and I mean TIGHT!!!!)...it can cause problems.

If I were in your shoes, I would check all the nuts/bolts to be sure they are tight, measure the toe-in yourself (tape measure is all you need, but a piece of chalk and a second set of hands can make it easier). Verify the number you got from the shop.

If everything looks good, put the OEM track bar back in, change nothing else...and see if the problem goes away. If it does, 99.9% chance that the track bar is the issue, if it doesn't, 99.9% chance that the alignment is the problem.

DW problems are a big pain to find....chances are, the cause of the problem was the last thing changed. So I suggest starting there. If you replace/adjust/move something, and it doesn't have an effect, be sure to put it back the way it was before moving on to the next thing. If you skip this step, you can introduce new problems that mimic the original problem...so when you finally fix the original problem, you may not know it because of the new problem....and you go round and round in a nasty little circle....

 

[goodtimes]

I ran for some time with a caster at 3.5* and while not optimal, it did not invoke death wobble. Typically, low caster results in slow return to center and all other things being in good working order, not death wobble.

I have experienced the same....2.5* makes for a poor handling jeep, but death wobble was not a issue.

 

[JeepinJason]

Every time I've personally dealt with DW, it was due to a toe-in situation, which was easily fixed with a proper alignment. With the crossover steering on a WJ though, that shouldn't be an issue unless something has gotten bent.

The only reason I mentioned the caster is because I've know guys (with XJs) that ran in DW that was cured just by increasing their caster. I do stand by my initial assessment that the caster is low though, simply because factory spec is 6-7.5 degrees. That may or may not be contributing to the DW issue though (personally my money is on the trackbar having something loose).

 

[robert j. yates]

I do stand by my initial assessment that the caster is low though, simply because factory spec is 6-7.5 degrees. That may or may not be contributing to the DW issue though (personally my money is on the trackbar having something loose).

The thing with Jeep coil spring front ends is that you actually need to decrease caster somewhat with lift as to much can actually cause death wobble to occur. It sounds like he has 3-4" of lift on stock control arms which while not optimal, should not cause death wobble due to low caster. FWIW....I am running 4.5* of caster on 5.5" of lift and he should be in the 5-5.5* range with 4" of lift.

You and I both agree though that something is most likely loose...whether it is a bolt or a fragged bushing allowing movement is what he needs to look at.

 

[silvergrand]

Thanks for all the good advice! I'll be following up on these suggestions in the morning.

1. Tight, tight and super-tight!!
2. Toe- 1/8th
3. Caster Options
4. multiple smaller possibles fron the net.

All was well until I added the adj track bar. I only needed the steering wheel recentered!! Oh well, it's always something.

Thanks!

 

[Steve Curren]

Mine was trac bar. I had to replace a bushing and then tightened it up and all was well again.
Good luck..

 

[monele]

Here's an organized list a friend gather for our jeep Club. Mark is top notch when it comes to this stuff. Even something as little as a worn out steering stabilizer can contribute. Linky:

http://www.midsouthjeeps.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=98&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=death+wobble

 

[Backwoods Rambler]

Mine was a steering stabilizer...good luck

 

[JeepinJason]

Steering stabilizers neither cause nor fix DW. They can however, mask the symptoms. Whatever was the root cause of the DW is still an issue though, even if the new stabilizer is hiding the effects.