2012 Tacoma?

RR1

Explorer
New front end and that is about it.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/08/first-images-of-2012-toyota-tacoma-leaked.html

6a00d83451b3c669e2014e8ab946e8970d-pi
 
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Flagster

Expedition Leader
hmmm...not sure...have been waiting to see if an upgrade is worthwhile...
hmmm...and after seeing the rest of the pics...barfffff
 

Redline

Likes to Drive and Ride
What Wrong With Your Mouth Dude?

I like the current nose much better.

This looks like it got punched in the face, is missing several of teeth, and the lips are still sucked in.

Don't care for what they did to the headlights either.

Just sayin' ;)

But maybe it will grow on me?
 
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RR1

Explorer
I kinda like it, sorta a cross between the 4Runner and the Tundra.

Good news not much (if anything) has changed to the chassis, be easy to kit with what is already available on the aftermarket.

Some on that link were preferring the HiLux over the Tacoma, I see HiLuxes almost daily here, I honestly don't see why the fuss over them, looks wise that is.
 
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austintaco

Explorer
The looks won't win anybody over, but if the offer the right engine/drivetrain and cab/bed configurations, they will have some takers.
 

trump

Adventurist
When is another manufature going to de-throne Tacoma sales and force Toyota to innovate more? A D4D Tacoma would be the only update that would bring me back to the dealership.

LOL, is that our very own Oxi getting the business in the comment section :coffee:

:coffeedrink:
I wonder at what point does the person nobody gets along with realize that everyone else isn't the problem?
 

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
When is another manufature going to de-throne Tacoma sales and force Toyota to innovate more? A D4D Tacoma would be the only update that would bring me back to the dealership.

Interesting question. My guess would be "never."

Remember about 20 - 25 years ago when there was fierce competition amongst the compact truck makers? You had Toyota, but also Nissan, Mitsubishi, Mazda, Isuzu, and of course Ford and Chevy (and this was before "Mazda" and "Isuzu" trucks became rebadged Fords and Chevies, respectively.) You even had Jeep for a few years selling the Commanche.

So what happened? Well, in short, everyone ended up emulating Dodge.

Remember what Dodge did with the Dakota? They introduced a truck that was in between a "Compact" and a "full sized." Sales took off, even despite ChryCo's less-than-stellar reputation for quality. People decided they liked the "mid sized" trucks more than the compacts.

Then a few other things happened.

* The price of fuel continued to fall, and fell all through the 1990s (there was a period of nearly a year around 1996-97 when I never paid more than $1.00/gallon for gas.)

* The SUV craze took off, boosted by cheap gas prices.

By the late 90's, Mazda, Isuzu and Mitsubishi had all given up on importing trucks. It was easier for them to re-badge a US made truck (Ford Ranger, Chevy S10 and Dodge Dakota, respectively) than it was to import them. It was also much cheaper and the US-built vehicles were already compliant with US emission and safety standards (my guess is that it was the air bag requirement that finally doomed imported trucks. It's no accident that the air bag requirement went into effect at the same time the importers stopped importing small trucks, circa 1994-96.)

Those that didn't re-badge (Toyota and Nissan) simply built factories in the US to make US-spec trucks that weren't sold elsewhere in the world (Tacoma and Frontier.)

Since they were making them for US customers, and since fuel economy was no longer an issue, they made the trucks progressively bigger, heavier, and more powerful.

By the time the Tacoma and Frontier hit their 2nd generation in 2005, most of the small trucks had morphed into mid-sized trucks. Not only were they bigger than the compacts, they were nearly as thirsty as a full-sized truck.

When I bought my Ranger in 1999, it was still the best selling compact truck on the market. The Ranger grew a bit in 1993 and again in 1998 with successive redesigns, but was always smaller than most of the competition.

The other factor that needs to be considered is profit. Car companies aren't charities, after all - they want to make money. Selling a bargain-priced car might lure a customer into the showroom, but it's not neccessarily going to put money into the pockets of the company. With the sale of high-priced SUVs falling, I think a lot of companies decided to push their more profitable full-sized line of trucks instead of less profitable mid-sized trucks.

I would argue that the Tacoma owes its position at the top of the heap not to any kind of superiority or quality, but simply because Toyota is almost the "last man standing" in the mid-size truck world.

Not so much in the sense that it has no competition - it does, from the Frontier to the Colorado to the Dakota.

It's just that the companies that make those vehicles don't even try to compete with Toyota on volume. Honestly, I think they just don't care because that market segment, mid-sized trucks, just isn't a money maker for them.

IOW, it's not that Ford or Nissan can't make a better truck than the Tacoma, it's just that there's no reason for them to try. Ford and Nissan are content to sell mid-sized trucks to their fewer customers and to make their money in other products: Full sized trucks and SUVs for Ford, compact cars, crossovers and luxury cars (through their Infiniti sub-brand) for Nissan.

And Ford's strategy is pretty shrewd: They're dropping the Ranger altogether, hoping to steer potential Ranger customers to either the Transit (small businesses) or to the more expensive (and more profitable) F-150 (construction companies and recreational users.)

A long winded answer, I know, but it is something I've been thinking about for a long time. Sum it up and ask the question: What is the market for "mid sized" trucks? I would argue that it's an ever-shrinking market and the limited number of choices that customers have now (as compared to two decades ago) reflect that fact.
 

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
Continuing my rant...

Another factor, somewhat related, is the natural way that "luxuries" tend to become "neccessities."

Back in the days when 100hp was considered adequate, when most compact trucks didn't have air conditioning or power-everything, you could get away with stuffing a 1.9l engine and a 5 speed manual tranny into a 2500lb vehicle.

But trying to put AC, power steering, power windows, power doors, power seats, 6 speaker 100w stereos, and of course the slushbox transmission into a vehicle like that won't work (not to mention side-impact door beams, crumple zones and air bags.)

The only way to fit that stuff in is to make the vehicle physically larger, and of course you also have to make it heavier, which means you need a bigger, more powerful, and thirstier engine.

You also have customers demanding sports-car accelleration, and since fuel economy is no longer an issue, you might as well put the biggest, most powerful engine in there that you can.

By the time you're done, you no longer have a "compact", you have a "mid size" that is 80% of the size, weight and fuel consumption of a full sized. Why not just go the extra 20% and get a full sized truck, especially since they can carry more, tow more and haul more, and have better resale value?

At this point, we shouldn't be wondering why the mid sized truck segment is shrinking, we should be marveling that it even exists at all in the US!
 

trump

Adventurist
Sum it up and ask the question: What is the market for "mid sized" trucks? I would argue that it's an ever-shrinking market and the limited number of choices that customers have now (as compared to two decades ago) reflect that fact.

Sorry for making you write all of that, but it was more of a rhetorical question. Here's something more direct: Could compact or now "midsize" truck sales be increased if a manufature put an engine that significantly improved mpg's over that of a fullsize. I vote yes.
 

zolo

Explorer
"A D4D Tacoma would be the only update that would bring me back to the dealership."


I agree, The diesel is the only thing we are missing.
Current style or 2012 style,
The D4D or a US only diesel that the US can play nice with is the only thing Id go back to the dealer for.
 

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
Could compact or now "midsize" truck sales be increased if a manufature put an engine that significantly improved mpg's over that of a fullsize. I vote yes.

Then the question ought to be "can a manufacturer significantly increase MPG while still maintaining existing power and amenity levels, and do so in a vehicle that is still price-competitive?"

The answer to that, sadly, is no, they can't.

They can do any TWO of those things above, but they can't do all three:

1. They can keep the price the same and increase MPG, but to do so they will have to decrease the amenities (size, power, luxury items) which allows them to put in a smaller, more efficient engine and tranny (IOW, a return to the true "mini truck" of the 70's.)

2. They can increase the MPG and keep all the amenities by putting in advanced or highly techonologically sophisticated engines, using extremely lightweight materials like advanced plastics or high-tech alloys, and run something like a hybrid system that allows them to run a less powerful engine but not lose power. The problem here is both in cost and complexity which will be much, much higher.

Would you pay $60k for a 30mpg Tacoma? How about $45k for a 25mpg Taco? At some level you reach the point of diminishing returns whereby the cost of increasing MPG raises the price of the vehicle past the point where people will actually buy it.

3. They can keep the same price and the same level of amenities, which also means keeping the same crappy MPG, maybe with a little tweaking here and there. This is the path of least resistance and the most risk-averse method.

As for diesels, I don't see the attraction. By the time you add all the mandatory emissions control crap that a diesel would need to be legal in the US, it will be back down to nearly the same MPG as a gasoline car, plus it would cost $5,000 more and run on more expensive fuel.
 
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Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
"A D4D Tacoma would be the only update that would bring me back to the dealership."


I agree, The diesel is the only thing we are missing.
Current style or 2012 style,
The D4D or a US only diesel that the US can play nice with is the only thing Id go back to the dealer for.

What's the price premium for diesel, though? Would you pay $5k more for a diesel? $10k? And even if you would, would the next customer, or the customer after that?

It's not just about making a vehicle people like, it's about making a vehicle people will actually buy, and that will make a profit for the seller.
 

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
Regarding diesels: Right now introducing a small diesel is too risky a move for any of the major players. If anybody brings in a diesel, it will be a new player, one who has an incentive to take risks. I had thought Mahindra would be that company, but we've been hearing since 2007 that they were on the verge of bringing a small diesel truck to market (I've even seen a few test modles driving around town) and yet, where are they? Does anyone know?

EDIT: Just went to Mahindra Planet blog:

That deafening silence you hear is the sound of Mahindra and Global Vehicles making preparations for their upcoming arbitration in August. The fate of some 350 franchised Mahindra dealers and the presence of Mahindra trucks in the US hang in the balance. Maybe no news is good news, but then again, maybe some of the enthusiasm built up over the last 4 years has finally begun to fade.


Even a diehard Mahindrista has to admit that the chance of seeing Mahindra pickups on US roads in the near future is slim. Publicly, Mahindra only speaks of their Ssangyong product line making it to America. As time rolls on, more manufacturers appear to be closing in on the niche Mahindra intended to own just a few years ago. Ford's EcoBoost F-150, the global Chevy Colorado, Nissan's development partnership with Cummins, a new compact Ram pickup, and continued talk of a Jeep pickup all begin to overlap the mid-size, high capacity, fuel-efficient, diesel pickup concept Mahindra has touted but failed to deliver.

Maybe Mahindra could change their angle of attack, and bring in a truly bare-bones, bargain-basement heavy duty pickup on the cheap. There still may be an opportunity here for that. Of course, they now have the additional task of repairing their reputation.


Maybe Mahindra has served its intended purpose. Mahindra has become a case study in how not to launch a vehicle in the US. Lessons learned should enable them to make a better go at successfully launching Ssangyong here. Has the wave has crested, retreated, or only begun to push ashore? We'll find out in August...

Trump: I think the answer to your question is underlined in the quote above.
 
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