40AH LifePO4 Battery Pack

[ikk]

I posted this in the Power Systems: 12v, Solar, Gen. area of this Forum but I know alot of people talk about Goal Zero on this site. Just an FYI; Here's the link to the other sub-forum.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/153817-New-all-in-one-LifePO4-alternative-to-Goal-Zero-Yeti-400

Bionneo Power makes a portable LifePO4 battery power pack that seems is out to compete with the Goal Zero Yeti 400. The Bionneo Power 500 W-hr Power Pack (BPP-M500) comes with a 40AH LifePO4 battery were as the Goal Zero Yeti 400 comes with a 33AH lead acid battery and weighs 10lbs more. Both have a 300 watt pure sine wave inverter. the Bionneo Power one does cost around 160 more.





I do have the 10AH version with 100 watt modified inverter I purchased last year. I did have an issue with the first one they provided me, as it would not hold a charge and the protecting BMS would shut it down. But once I called them, they replaced it at no cost to me. Prior to purchasing, I did ask them a ton of questions and response was very quick.

 

[MarcFJ60]

I'd be curious as to the true Ah of that LiFePo battery. They are becoming popular for motorcycle batteries (I own one). While they have a lot of good qualities, reserve capacity isn't one of them. The manufacturers use "Pb Equivalent" Ah, but they are grossly over billed. My "18Ah" Lithium battery is actually about 5 Ah. It's small, lightweight, and puts out a lot of CCA (even when cold), but reserve capacity isn't one of the high points.

That's not to say they can't build a 40Ah LiFePo battery. I would just want to be sure it is truly 40 Amp hours and not some "40Ah Pb Eq".

 

[ikk]

I'd be curious as to the true Ah of that LiFePo battery. They are becoming popular for motorcycle batteries (I own one). While they have a lot of good qualities, reserve capacity isn't one of them. The manufacturers use "Pb Equivalent" Ah, but they are grossly over billed. My "18Ah" Lithium battery is actually about 5 Ah. It's small, lightweight, and puts out a lot of CCA (even when cold), but reserve capacity isn't one of the high points.

That's not to say they can't build a 40Ah LiFePo battery. I would just want to be sure it is truly 40 Amp hours and not some "40Ah Pb Eq".

The most I have ever ran mine was using four 1/4 amp goal zero lights for a little over 4 hours while camping, and solar charge it back up the next day. Now mine is a 10AH so I should be able to get close to 8 hours before the BMS kicks in. I have never really tested it as I have better things to do then sit around watching lights. I have resently got a 12 volt fan. I should check the amps on it, And put the battery through a test this weekend. Now I know it's not apples 2apples as we are comparing the 10AH to 40AH but it should state how accurate is there advertising.

 

[MarcFJ60]

I would imagine that is a pretty good test. Certainly good enough to see if or how bad they are fudging numbers. I'm sure many here would appreciate seeing the results.

 

[pluton]

If I had the dough, I'd get one of these.
https://www.lithiumion-batteries.com
Until then, I'll continue to use the Group 34 AGM batt in a box.

 

[ikk]

If I had the dough, I'd get one of these.
https://www.lithiumion-batteries.com
Until then, I'll continue to use the Group 34 AGM batt in a box.

That battery you are pointing out is $580. for the equivalent 40AH. For $120. more you have a 300 watt pure sine-wave inverter, USB and 12 Volt adapters, you can also charge the batteries using solar panels up to 25VDC, anymore and you would need a Lithium charge controller. Now I would love to do an all DIY system as I know that if my inverter died on me I can just go out and buy a new one. Also with a DIY you could always expand and add more. If Lithium was not so expensive I would love to go that route. I may still just a bit smaller at 15 or 20AH with the room to grow.

 

[ikk]

OK so I did a test on my power pack which is close to a year old, as you can see what I have hooked up below. By no means do I have scientific accurate equipment so this is just a simple setup I was able to preform. I did take two different types of readings so to get a base average. one was by hooking up my GT Pro watt meter that indicated I was running around 2.8 amps jumped around = or- 1 with everything hooked up. I also used my volt meter to measure the amps from each source. this is what I came up with:

2 LED Lights .72 amps
2 red LED Lights .50 amps
12 Volt Fan running on High .49 amps
4 LED Goal Zero Light a Life 1.18 amps

The battery ran for 3.35 hours before shutting down

Volt meter= 2.64 amps X 3.35= 8.84 amp hours

Watt meter= 2.80 amps X 3.35 hours= 9.38 amp hours

As the lithium should cut out at around 80% so the battery is not harmed, I would assume that I should only be getting around 8 amp hours from the battery.

 

[robgendreau]

OK so I did a test on my power pack which is close to a year old, as you can see what I have hooked up below. By no means do I have scientific accurate equipment so this is just a simple setup I was able to preform. I did take two different types of readings so to get a base average. one was by hooking up my GT Pro watt meter that indicated I was running around 2.8 amps jumped around = or- 1 with everything hooked up. I also used my volt meter to measure the amps from each source. this is what I came up with:

2 LED Lights .72 amps
2 red LED Lights .50 amps
12 Volt Fan running on High .49 amps
4 LED Goal Zero Light a Life 1.18 amps

The battery ran for 3.35 hours before shutting down

Volt meter= 2.64 amps X 3.35= 8.84 amp hours

Watt meter= 2.80 amps X 3.35 hours= 9.38 amp hours

As the lithium should cut out at around 80% so the battery is not harmed, I would assume that I should only be getting around 8 amp hours from the battery.

View attachment 328530

Hmm. Sounds about right.

I imagine one could tell if that is a for realsies 40 amp hour battery by the size of the battery itself, since I assume the cells are more or less standard sized.

As for PbEq AH, I'm kinda skeptical too. Seems like more of a marketing thing. See this: http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/news/lighten-lithium-ion-battery-gear#axzz2FM2dccTb. They tested a Shorai LFX14A2-BS12 battery and got 3.2AH (kinda on the low end); that battery is advertised as lead-acid equivalent of 14AH. There are differences in starting discharge rates, etc etc but still. Seems like some BS floating around, although not on all brands.

 

[ikk]

I feel the same way. With all this new technology floating around to replace old tech, and a lot of cheap products coming from overseas. Especially during the infancy of many products that are very expensive. I think a good example is LED bulbs. When LEDs first came out to the consumer market they were expensive, and then a flood of cheaper versions came out. Problem was when they provided the incandescent equivalent they always seem to over promise. Mind you, not all companies but most. That was the hold point of my test. I feel that at least the one that I was provided came close or exceeded there promised Amp Hours, even though I can't give accurate measurements as I do not have expensive calibrated equipment I feels it comes close enough. I'm getting over 8AH on a 10AH battery knowing that the BMS should be kicking at about 80%. My only thing now is longevity. Lead acid batteries are marketed at around 200 cycles of recharging, where as LifePO4 are at 2000 cycles. I have only had my battery for just about a year so I am no ware near that and wont be for many years.

Currently I am in the process of either purchasing a Portable Battery system or building one. I like the all in one systems as they are nice looking and compact. But on the other side of the coin a DIY system can be made to be expandable, and easily fixed if something break,s like the inverter in my power 600 pack I have.

 

[robgendreau]

Currently I am in the process of either purchasing a Portable Battery system or building one. I like the all in one systems as they are nice looking and compact. But on the other side of the coin a DIY system can be made to be expandable, and easily fixed if something break,s like the inverter in my power 600 pack I have.

Smart move IMHO. Cheaper, and more versatile. Since we all have vehicles, it has never made sense to me that some buy battery all-in-one combos with an inverter that can't be attached to the vehicle charging system. And at the end of the day they're heavy and not really that compact. A bare battery, an inverter, solar controller, and panels can all be stored separately and used for different purposes: maybe with the vehicle battery, maybe with the house battery, maybe solar directly to something else, or a bigger inverter on the vehicle when it's running and providing more juice, or house and vehicle battery in series for some uses, or whatever. And easier to replace when things go wrong.