5th Gen 4Runner KDSS

[Dalko43]

I have a few used 4Runners (2011-2013) in my sights for my next potential vehicle. I know for sure that I want a trail edition with bluetooth....all the other bells and whistles (nav, entune, remote start, ect.) I can either do without or can add on later.

The one feature that I am having trouble deciding on however is the KDSS (Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvWhQ1_uE0s

I have heard a lot of good things about it:
- It helps reduce body roll during on-road performance
- It enhances wheel articulation (slightly) during off-road performance
- Fairly functional and reliable
- Helps with resale value due to exclusivity.

However, throughout my research on the 4runner, I have also turned up some issues to be aware of with KDSS:
- Though fairly reliable, there have been some 4runners (a lot of model year 14's lately) that have had defective KDSS which resulted in a slight vehicle lean or noises.
- When it does experience a catastrophic break down, the KDSS is costly to repair (essentially the whole system needs to be replaced).
- Aftermarket suspension upgrades are feasible with KDSS, but are height-limited due to the pressure that is exerted on the hydraulic cylinders which make up the KDSS.
- Many argue that the slightly better wheel articulation provided by KDSS can easily be had with more simple and less costly aftermarket suspension upgrades.


Are these conclusions about the pro's and con's of KDSS correct? Anyone out there with experience in one or both of these systems that can provide some feedback.
I am buying a used 4runner with the understanding and intent to eventually replace and upgrade the stock suspension for better off-road performance. Is KDSS worth it for with those goals in mind?

 

[r_vdb]

We are in the same debate on whether the KDSS Or not (wife's new ride), One thing that I have noticed in my Tacoma is when I installed a icon suspension there is a lot less body roll and I've also gained 1 inch of droop in the front suspension, The sway bars are still connected so they limit full articulation. The reliability is a huge factor especially down the road 100,000 miles or so and the way the suspension is working in my Tacoma makes me think kdss may not be needed. I am definitely subscribing to this one for anyone else's feedback.

 

[.45 JHP]

5th gen owner checking in here. Main issue with KDSS is that in the event of a failure, you're looking at a pretty penny for replacement. 5th gen owners have reported that leaking cylinders have been difficult/expensive to replace. I opted twice (first with my 2010 SR5 and later buying a 2015 TRD Pro) out of KDSS mainly for those reasons.

I also found that KDSS is good as a stock to stock comparison but once you get aftermarket components (ie long travel) the extra articulation gained isn't much. One thing I will say is that you will gain a lot more body stiffness/less body roll when driving compared to a non KDSS car. Of course this is also negated to some degree when you get stiffer aftermarket shocks/springs.

 

[codename607]

I recently purchased a 2014 Trail Edition without KDSS because of the same reasons you mentioned. I also test drove one with KDSS and I really didn't notice a difference in handling. In the next few months I plan on adding a long travel lift to the rear and if I had KDSS it would be a huge pain to remove it just to add the lift.

I consider a non KDSS 4runner more functional because it allows the owner to change out more parts and it is also something that can fail out on the trail.

I guess the main point is that if you plan on keeping your truck stock then go with KDSS...if not, I would pass and save the money for a good quality lift.

 

[character zero]

I had a 2010 TE with KDSS and loved the way it drove over the SR5 (wife has a 2014). The lean is the main thing...but the manners are impeccable. You get a soft/supple suspension that doesn't suffer from the woes of soft suspension.
That being said, I've run upgraded coilovers/suspension on several other trucks, currently with Kings on my 2005 Tundra DC, and noted a significant decrease in lean on turns. Of course, there is a little trade off with a little harder ride quality but eh, itsatruck!

If I were to buy another T4R and planned on at least leveling it, I'd skip the KDSS.

 

[Dalko43]

Thanks. For the feedback so far. There is a decent condition 4runner trail for sale close to where i live. It has most of what I want in terms of features.

It does have the moonroof, which I would prefer to do without, but I hear the models without moonroofs are few and far between.

Has no KDSS. Since I can't add that on later, I figured I needed to be certain on that option's pro's/con's before I committed to a buy.

 

[Dalko43]

Update:

I ended up buying a used 2011 4Runner trail. Got it for a little over $27k (not including taxes) with 33k miles.

No KDSS or Entune, but I decided that neither was a necessity for my purposes.

So far, I am very happy with this SUV. It feels a bit bigger and more truck-like than the 4th Gen 4runner, which I have driven extensively, but that seems to make it that much more capable when going over the rough stuff. The 4WD High engages very nicely, even on the move at low speeds. The 4WD Low also engages nicely and I really notice the low gearing, which is nice.

The only thing that came as a surprise to me was that you have to be in 4WD Low and moving slowly to engage the rear Locker...this poses a slight problem for me because the past few days I have come home to a snow-covered driveway and needed increased traction to get up what is essentially a very steep incline covered in snow and ice. Trying to drive up it in 4wd High isn't always enough to get me up the driveway.

Sometimes not even 4wd Low is not enough. The issue is I don't have the ability to just stop and transition into 4WD Low and wait for the rear locker to engage because the street I am on always has lots of traffic. By comparison I could always lock the center differential while my 07 SR5 4Runner was in 4wd High and on the move....a much easier transition.

So my only question is, what is the best practice for using the Rear locker and how/when to engage it? I know that in general the 11 4runner has to be moving forwards for the locker to engage. But I also know that you really shouldn't be driving on improved surfaces with the rear locked unless you absolutely need the extra traction. Any suggestions?

 

[sandcrawler]

i bought my '10 Trail w/KDSS new, and have a full ICON suspension. rides great; very little body lean before i installed the suspension, and virtually none now. an aftermarket suspension isn't incompatible with KDSS unless you're going long-travel.

to your question: i too have a steep, snowy/icy driveway with a hairpin turn that bleeds off momentum and makes it all the more difficult to climb. have you tried engaging the Multi-Terrain Select into "Mud, Sand, Dirt" mode? it's the only MTS mode that works in 4H and may give you the extra bite you need. obviously, engaging 4L requires a shift to N, so 4H + "MTS - Mud, Sand, Dirt Mode" is only a throw of the lever and press of a button away, and may work for the situation you describe.

also—and most importantly, really—if your new rig still has the OEM tires that's likely 99% of your problem right there. they are rubbish. i bet with some new meats under there this problem will disappear entirely.

 

[Ryanmb21]

I'd choose KDSS.

 

[marshal]

not really a fan of my KDSS, going to be removing it in the future for Antirocks.

as far as your locker is concerned, use your ATRAC and a left foot on the brake pedal. you'd be surprised what the computer can drum up

 

[sandcrawler]

not really a fan of my KDSS, going to be removing it in the future for Antirocks.

as far as your locker is concerned, use your ATRAC and a left foot on the brake pedal. you'd be surprised what the computer can drum up

i can appreciate that it would suck if you didn't want KDSS but the only 4Runner you could find had it. all the more frustrating because KDSS is actually kind of hard to find. then again, i think it's also pretty hard to find an owner who actively dislikes it, so it doubly stinks if you're unhappy. if you're removing yours PM me if you want to sell it cheap. i may grab it for spares.

unfortunately ATRAC requires 4L so i don't think that will help OP much in the scenario he described. i get the sense the solution to his problem is three simple words: tires tires tires.

 

[Dalko43]

i bought my '10 Trail w/KDSS new, and have a full ICON suspension. rides great; very little body lean before i installed the suspension, and virtually none now. an aftermarket suspension isn't incompatible with KDSS unless you're going long-travel.

to your question: i too have a steep, snowy/icy driveway with a hairpin turn that bleeds off momentum and makes it all the more difficult to climb. have you tried engaging the Multi-Terrain Select into "Mud, Sand, Dirt" mode? it's the only MTS mode that works in 4H and may give you the extra bite you need. obviously, engaging 4L requires a shift to N, so 4H + "MTS - Mud, Sand, Dirt Mode" is only a throw of the lever and press of a button away, and may work for the situation you describe.

also—and most importantly, really—if your new rig still has the OEM tires that's likely 99% of your problem right there. they are rubbish. i bet with some new meats under there this problem will disappear entirely.

Yeah, I was thinking tires might be the issue as well. I am fairly certain they are not the stock tires, but I will have to double check on that.

 

[Dalko43]

unfortunately ATRAC requires 4L so i don't think that will help OP much in the scenario he described. i get the sense the solution to his problem is three simple words: tires tires tires.

Yeah, I have to look into that.

What did the 2011 trails come with as stock?

Also, just to clarify something I stated in one of my earlier posts, the 5th gen 4runner (trail and Sr5) doesn't come with a button to lock the center differential because when 4WD High or Low is engaged, in effect the drive axle going to the front and rear is locked...correct??

 

[sandcrawler]

Yeah, I have to look into that.

What did the 2011 trails come with as stock?

either Bridgestone Duelers or Dunlop AT20; both P-rated tires to maximize MPG.

Also, just to clarify something I stated in one of my earlier posts, the 5th gen 4runner (trail and Sr5) doesn't come with a button to lock the center differential because when 4WD High or Low is engaged, in effect the drive axle going to the front and rear is locked...correct??

yeah, there is no Torsen center diff on the 5G SR5 and Trail Edition (Limited still has it, however) it's an "old-fashioned" part-time 4WD system so it doesnt have the MultiMode 4WD option of driving in 4H with the center diff unlocked. when you put it in 4H front and rear are locked so don't be driving on high-traction surfaces and making sharp turns so you don't bind your driveline.

it's not as "wife-friendly" as having the Torsen center diff, but like you said: the 5G is a bit more "truck-ish" all around and it suits me just fine.

 

[Dalko43]

So I determined the tires on my 4runner are Coarser AXT's. They look to have a pretty aggressive tread, but I also notice that the snow and slush accumulates in the tread very quickly, essentially filling them in and creating a smooth service all along the face of the tire.

So I am starting to think that while these tires may be decent during trail and moderate off-roading during the warmer months, they don't offer the best grip for winter.



Also, I have to say, though I really do enjoy my 2011 4runner trail, I am really frustrated that toyota did not put a center differential feature in this model. The street I live on is now totally devoid of snow and ice, but my steep driveway is still very packed with ice and snow. I essentially have 2 choices when I turn from my street onto my driveway:

1) put the 4runner in 4wd before making the turn and starting the ascent of my driveway (which of course causes the inside wheels to skip, and is potentially wearing out the drive train components through binding).

or

2) leave the 4runner in 2wd as I turn into and ascend my driveway and then when I eventually lose traction and forward momentum, shift to neutral and engage 4wd Low and finish ascending the hill.

Neither solution is optimal....but if Toyota had just put a freaking center differential in the drivetrain so I had the ability to lock and unlock it, none of this would be an issue.