Air Ride on an expo vehicle?

[LocalmotionSC]

I'm curious about the pros and cons of air ride suspensions on expo vehicles. I don't know much about them, but my intuition tells me the added complexity might could be a liability. What are your thoughts? (and I mean full air ride like a medium/heavy duty truck would have, not helper air bags)

 

[billiebob]

Air ride is a highway thing. Generally speaking air ride has a very limited travel compared to coil or leaf springs. Plus there is that simplicity vs complexity vs durability vs liability. I think there are better suspension mods for an expo rig than air ride.

 

[dreadlocks]

Ive got OEM Air Suspension, I very much like it for my style of overlanding.. awesome for towing and general road travel, crank it down and low CG makes big heavy SUV feel sporty.. and then I can crank it up for ample clearance for all mild trails, mountain passes, forest service roads I'm willing to traverse.. its not the best suspension offroad, as it gets super hard aired up to max, but at 90% full and tires deflated its pretty good.. with the onboard air tank airing down is so easy.

not had any problems yet, knock on wood.. I daily, tow, and traverse all sorts of roads and conditions.. I like not having a lifted vehicle for daily life, and like cranking it up when the conditions demand it.

 

[LocalmotionSC]

Air ride is a highway thing. Generally speaking air ride has a very limited travel compared to coil or leaf springs. Plus there is that simplicity vs complexity vs durability vs liability. I think there are better suspension mods for an expo rig than air ride.

You are echoing some of the concerns I was worried about. And in terms of a 'mod' I wouldn't be considering air ride, but many medium and heavy duty vehicles come with an air ride suspension, some of which would make good base vehicles for a mild/moderate expo vehicle. Its these cases that led to my question.

 

[LocalmotionSC]

Ive got OEM Air Suspension, I very much like it for my style of overlanding.. awesome for towing and general road travel, crank it down and low CG makes big heavy SUV feel sporty.. and then I can crank it up for ample clearance for all mild trails, mountain passes, forest service roads I'm willing to traverse.. its not the best suspension offroad, as it gets super hard aired up to max, but at 90% full and tires deflated its pretty good.. with the onboard air tank airing down is so easy.

not had any problems yet, knock on wood.. I daily, tow, and traverse all sorts of roads and conditions.. I like not having a lifted vehicle for daily life, and like cranking it up when the conditions demand it.

Yeah, the adjustability (in both ride stiffness, and in your case ride height) does seem like one of the major advantages. Not sure if the commercial medium duty systems would allow change in ride height/cg though

 

[dreadlocks]

I would think any full air system would allow changing ride height, the trains, vans and busses can squat for loading.. Ive even got a loading button that deflates the rear bags entirely and sits it on the bump stops so you dont have to lift as high to get stuff in the back.

but I dont know much about the big trucks and how they do things.. they may just be for keeping everything nice and level when towing or unladen.. speaking of trains and buses and trucks, they been using air suspension since WW2 and the technology is rather simple and flushed out.. if you pay for quality and dont cheap out they would not be too much trouble.

 

[pugslyyy]

I'm curious about the pros and cons of air ride suspensions on expo vehicles. I don't know much about them, but my intuition tells me the added complexity might could be a liability. What are your thoughts? (and I mean full air ride like a medium/heavy duty truck would have, not helper air bags)

The phrase "expo vehicles" means many things to many people. For traveling to remote parts of the world I like to have as simple and as serviceable a vehicle build as possible. Coil or leaf springs will always be a better choice for that application, IMHO.

For domestic / North American use, air suspension becomes a more viable option - but I still see folks changing over air ride vehicles to coil spring pretty regularly. I tried for many years to get by with the air suspension on my Range Rover and finally gave up on it in Moab one trip and swapped out to coil springs in the parking lot of the hotel we were staying in there. I've busted plenty of bags, but never a coil.

 

[LocalmotionSC]

The phrase "expo vehicles" means many things to many people. For traveling to remote parts of the world I like to have as simple and as serviceable a vehicle build as possible. Coil or leaf springs will always be a better choice for that application, IMHO.

For domestic / North American use, air suspension becomes a more viable option - but I still see folks changing over air ride vehicles to coil spring pretty regularly. I tried for many years to get by with the air suspension on my Range Rover and finally gave up on it in Moab one trip and swapped out to coil springs in the parking lot of the hotel we were staying in there. I've busted plenty of bags, but never a coil.

Yeah, these were kind of my concerns (easy serviceability and potential fragility of the system--but i've only got no idea how fragile or resilient airbags are). I don't plan to do any rockcrawling and I won't be taking this build on any RTW expeditions (Mexico is about as far as I'll ever get I imagine), but these factors are still relevant concerns I think. I do imagine that finding a shop that will service airbags for a medium/heavy duty truck chassis would be easier to find than shops that could source parts or do so for a Range Rover, and its possible that these systems would be simpler/more resilient too, but on the other hand they might be more vulnerable offroad as they were not designed with that in mind. But all in all, it feels like it might be best to avoid if your primary consideration is resilience and serviceability. The adjustability does sound damn nice though.

Out of curiosity, what is the procedure for fixing a busted airbag on the trail?

 

[Buliwyf]

Lack of suspension travel. Fragility.

If the bags are setup for multiple ride height adjustments, you might find that they're too soft at low height setting, where you need them to be stiff. And too stiff at tall settings, where you need them to be soft.

 

[b dkw1]

Any suspension as only as good as the guy that designed it. Unfortunately there are a lot of bolt on air ride kits that are very poorly designed. Changing ride height with pressure is a bandaid. Changing pressure to account for I differing loads is a god send.

 

[vintageracer]

The phrase "expo vehicles" means many things to many people. For traveling to remote parts of the world I like to have as simple and as serviceable a vehicle build as possible. Coil or leaf springs will always be a better choice for that application, IMHO.

For domestic / North American use, air suspension becomes a more viable option - but I still see folks changing over air ride vehicles to coil spring pretty regularly. I tried for many years to get by with the air suspension on my Range Rover and finally gave up on it in Moab one trip and swapped out to coil springs in the parking lot of the hotel we were staying in there. I've busted plenty of bags, but never a coil.

Most if not all the folks I personally know that changed out the air suspension on their air suspension vehicle to coil springs did so do to COST OF REPAIR/REPLACEMENT of a part or parts within the air system. When somebody tells you one new replacement air suspension front or rear strut/air spring will cost you $500-$1,000 just for the part it's easy to see why coil spring replacement is so prevalent because it's CHEAP! Many times less than $200 for all 4 coil springs.

As Pugslyyy noted even the most dedicated folks can finally through in the towel on maintaining/repairing an air suspension system in their vehicle!

 

[b dkw1]

Ummmmm, new bags are 150ish a piece. Try getting so e custom rate coil springs for anywhere near that. Or a custom leaf pack. All those fancy electonic fill valves are for people with more money than brains.

 

[Buliwyf]

Ummmmm, new bags are 150ish a piece. Try getting so e custom rate coil springs for anywhere near that. Or a custom leaf pack. All those fancy electonic fill valves are for people with more money than brains.

3.0″ ID Coilover Springs – AccuTune Off-Road

accutuneoffroad.com

 

[b dkw1]

True, but at that point you have all ready invested in a set of 2.5 coil-overs and the springs that came with them.

Want to change that ride hieght or compensate for a heavier load? Better get out your floor Jack and spanner wrench and hope you have enough room to spin the wrench with the shocks mounted. A little more involved than hitting the Schrader valve.

 

[Buliwyf]

I used to run airbags.

Combining proper steel, and Sumo Rebel springs seems like a good option.