Astro (Safari): The perfect platform?

[Rune]

Hi All,

I want back into the van life after selling my old 4x4 E350 camper van a year ago.

My plan is to buy an Astro AWD (or Safari?) and send it to CCV for a penthouse pop-top and shell build including house electric battery bank and wiring, water storage, propane tank and water heater. Then have it shipped to me for interior build out.

My question for all you kind and wise folk is: What perfect Astro (or Safari) platform should I be hunting for? Year, model, sub-model/trim, options, etc. And why?

Right now I am thinking early 2000s Astro AWD, passenger version. The one that looks like a big minivan with windows all around.

My plan is to make it off-road capable with a lift and 33s, so I need to have lift kit options.

I also understand that at some point the Astro AWD went from a viscous coupling diff to an E-diff. Is one better than the other, and why?

In doing some preliminary research it looks like the AWD trans can be swapped for a different Chevy trans that has a traditional stick selectable transfer case. Is that true? Is the swap easy? And what platform can the swap be preformed on?

Happy for any links on good Astro builds I should look into and the members who built them.

Mahalo
Sean

 

[vintageracer]

Lot's of information on the AstorSafarivan.com answering ALL your questions above and many that you have not even thought about!

If you start with an AWD van you can change the AWD viscous transfer case to a manual shift low range/high range case from other GM vehicles. There are many other things to modify with parts swapping from other GM vehicles however you still will NOT have a very capable AWD van. You are very limited in lift height and tire size with the IRS AWD front end. These vans have torsion bars and an engine sub-frame which are limiting factors. There are kits for lifting these vans however a 2+2 lift (2 inch sub-frame/2 inch torsion key) is about all you will get with the stock front AWD sub-frame setup.

I owned a 1987 short wheel base Astro cargo van that was converted to front leaf springs and a solid front axle back in the late 1980's for a TV station van in Vegas. A good friend of mine to whom I sold the van still owns this van. This van had a 6 inch lift and was pretty capable off-road due to the short size/overhangs of the van and the heavily modified solid front axle, lift, rear locker and high/low range manual transfer case making my little van a true 4WD setup. It still had the under powered 4.3 V6. A small V8 makes all the difference in the world in these vans.

IF you want a fairly capable 4WD Astro van you are better off starting with a 2WD van and building a solid front axle 4WD IF you have the fabrication skills to do so. If not then buy an AWD van, buy one of the commercially available lift kits and start modifying.

Just remember the newest Astro is now 13 years old and product support for these commercial work horse vans is all but gone.

There is a ROLLER late 1980's 4WD Astro for sale on Astrosafarivans.com right now in British Columbia. I tried to contact the seller about buying the van HOWEVER the seller will only email and not talk. Says he is not "spending the money" to talk on the phone and will only answer questions about the van via email and does not give out his telephone number. That says a LOT to me about a seller (All Bad) so I am out! Maybe you will have better luck IF you are interested in his project van with NO MOTOR with an $1800 asking price.

Apparently this van has been for sale for AWHILE still no takers and has not sold. Maybe owner attitude has a lot to do with that or possibly the location in the middle of nowhere BC.

Just a thought on my part!

 

[Deshet]

I have a 1999 AWD Astro with 120,000 miles
It is a passenger model with 2 rows of seats and Windows all around.
The interior is very clean
Rust Free
I will be selling it soon. (within a week)
PM me for details.

Yes they can be made into true 4x4. They are pretty respectable in awd form.

 

[jdharrin]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but according to their website, CCV is no longer doing tops on Astros. https://www.coloradocampervan.com/faq-1

 

[Herbie]

If you're in the market for Astro/Safari, then you'll want to focus on the newest 2003-2005 vans. In 2003 they got a big upgrade to the brakes (+ rear discs) that really helps, plus a switch to 6-lug hubs. (Useful primarily for identifying the newer models, not that the 6-lugs are a vast improvement by themselves).

After that, condition would be next most important. The engine/transmission combo is plenty stout if well maintained. I'm not afraid of mileage, but I'll pass on rust, etc. I wouldn't worry about cargo vs. passenger vans as much as condition, unless you have a strong need to keep the 7-passenger capability of the windowed vans. The 3-piece rear doors on the pass. vans have better visibility, but make adding a rear tire carrier more difficult as the upper door has to open first.

Regarding Transfer cases, the viscous-coupling transfer cases are pre-99. The 99+ cases are computer-controlled/motor actuated. For what you're talking about, you'll probably change the TC anyhow, so don't sweat which you get, they both work fine in the mean time. Yes, the AWD to 4x4 conversion is easy and cheap. Mine was $500 to get add low-range with an NP233 converted to cable shifting.

About the same $500 for the lift. Guys who stick with the IFS front end can fit up to about a 31" tire. A few intrepid souls have done a solid axle conversion and can fit pretty much whatever tire they want. Still easier to start with an AWD van if you're doing a solid axle swap as you'll have all the parts for the transfer case, etc.

If you absolutely must have a pop-top, then you're on a unicorn hunt. Three companies did pop-tops at various times: CCV (Colorado), GTRV (previously Lulu Island) (Vancouver and California), and SafariCondo (Quebec). Careful scouring of eBay and Craigslist will turn up a result every now and then.

I wanted both a newer 6-lug van and a pop-top, so I bought a 2003 Astro in Arizona, a 1995 Lulu Island/GTRV in Vancouver, and drove them both back to San Diego for a DIY transplant operation. You gotta do what you gotta do.

How many will you have in the rig, normally? We're a family of 3, so the pop-top is a must. I know several singles and couples who've been quite happy with the tin-top, even on looooong trips. If you're a couple and just need more headroom, a fixed conversion-van top is more readily available (or just buy a pre-converted conversion van and save big $$).

 

[Treenail]

I'm on my third Astro/Safari. #2 &. #3 = AWD

Even with headroom of a high top I really doubt there's enough cubic room to be comfortable for much more than short trips. Especially if anyone is tall and needs a fore n aft bed arrangement.

The newest you'll find is an '05. What is low mileage in a 13 yo vehicle?

Convert to 4wd? How many camping weekends given up since the AWD does work quite well?

If I were looking at your needs I'd look at a half ton 4wd pickup with a camper. Just me

 

[Mat Mobile]

I agree with Treenail. I had two Astro's and loved them but they are small. So it's a double edged sword: no space but fits in tight places. Why don't you just look for an AWD Express?

 

[Nesquik]

I have a Safari. No experience camping in it yet. But I did research before I bought it.

Other than being generally cheaper than a full size, easier to find in AWD, and physically smaller, it has no advantages over a full-size, as far as I can tell.

If I could fit a full size in my garage, I would’ve gotten a full size. 100%

Also important to note, it is considerably easier to get 33s on a full-size.

 

[Rune]

Hey all. Thanks so much for the thoughtful and detailed responses, food for thought for sure.

I think it would be helpful if I provide some more detail on what I want out of the vehicle, and what camping is like here on Maui:

So Maui is a small island with very little in the way of sanctioned camping and off-roading. Camping tends to be beach pull offs or mountain road view points where being smaller and less conspicuous is good.

Off-roading that will get you to a camp spot is of the rutted muddy or rocky road variety and generally short. Usually not too difficult, but traction can be at a premium as the mud is slick. Other than that it's straight up dial at 11 rock crawling; 35s and lockers at a minimum. Nothing I'd want to subject a camper van to, and those trails don't end anywhere I'd want to camp anyway. Mostly what I need to navigate are twisty narrow paved roads, and I'd like a van that does that very well, and can also handle the off road bit that is the last half mile to the camp spot.

It will be me, the wife and our two young kids. We'll use the van for day trips or overnighters, probably not longer than 3 days at a stretch. I'd like standing height and a small functional kitchen. I imagine using the van for home cooked dinners out at spots that have a view no restaurant can match. I also want the van to be very open to the outside while in camp mode while providing lots of shade, no need to hide from the elements here.

Based on the above here are some specifics for my imagined ideal van:

Selectable 4x4 with low range preferred, otherwise capable AWD

IFS, solid rear axle with LSD

4" lift with 32s

v6 or small v8 gas engine

Penthouse pop-top

Fresh water and propane storage

Rear front facing bench that converts to bed for kids, penthouse bed for us


So what am I looking for?

I did hear back from Derek at CCV and they are no longer installing pop-tops on Astros, boooooooo! So if I want the CCV pop-top on a similar vehicle I have to choose the chevy express or gmc savannah, which I guess I'll have to research, though I don't like the look of either and both seem much bigger than the Astro.

 

[RVflyfish]

I have an '03 Astro AWD. Like Herbie said, the brakes are a big upgrade. One of the better features on the van.

I lifted it 4" using Marktanium's DIY thread on another forum. With 30" tires (actually 255/65-17's), I have a decent amount of rubbing even after cutting and hammering stuff out of the way. And the slider door gets stuck on my right rear tire. I think 32's might be tough with only a 4" lift.



For what it's worth, I'm not thrilled with the ride. When you crank up the torsion keys it puts the lower A-arm in a more vertical position. That loses you front suspension compliance. Bumps aren't necessarily rougher, but somehow louder. They definitely don't get soaked up the way they do in my Tacoma, that's for sure. I long for a solid axle swap and 4-link suspension. I've read of a couple guys who did an SAS with Dodge Ram front axles.

I'm also not thrilled with the V-6. If I keep this van long term, I'm going to swap in a '98-'99 Suburban or similar 5.7 powertrain with a limited slip G80 rear diff and a 2-speed NP246 transfer case. (If you know CA smog law, that's not kosher; you have to swap a same year or newer engine in. But I live in an area that's exempt from smog checks until a vehicle is sold.) So yeah, that will give me V-8 power, better mpg (I've read over 20 vs the 13-14 I get now), 3.73s, and a 2wd/AWD/hi-lo 4WD t-case. For the record I have 3.55 gearing now; not quite enough for my 30's.

The guys are right that Astros are pretty small inside, especially if you kit them out. I think the best way I heard it put is that you don't live in an Astro, you live out of one. That might be less of an issue on warm Maui than in the cold, wet winters of Northern CA, but def something to consider.

I used to travel alone. That worked out pretty well. Then I got a girl. We've done day trips but never camped out of it together. Next I got a dog. Traveling with him is actually more crowded than with my girl. He doesn't understand boundaries or keeping things clean the way a human does. I don't know how well camping with my girl AND my dog would go. I'm thinking it would get cramped and I'd have to do a lot of moving things to get to other things the whole time. I honestly can't imagine adding two kids to the mix.

Exterior storage would def help. A roof rack, space cab, rear bumper box, hitch mounted basket, etc. One note on roof racks, btw: my '03 doesn't have drip rails and didn't come with a factory rack. So if I want one, I have to drill through the roof. I haven't been able to bring myself to do that yet because I'm paranoid of leaks.

So for now everything travels inside. I have a cot that runs most of the length of the driver's side. I can fit four storage totes and two Coleman stoves under it. I also have about 20" of leftover space between the foot of the cot and the back doors. I plan to build a drawer unit and galley there, but for now I just use it for storage. Everything is secured with bungee cords to the rear D-rings. I also store stuff in two backpacks hung over the coat hooks. One thing I don't like about that is they're very visible.



As you can see, it works, but it's tight. Basically, if I had to sum it up, I'd say an Astro is like a submarine. Space is very much at a premium. Many times I've started to dive deeper into a buildout only to veer off because the platform is a bit too small for my needs.

We'll see. Summer is coming and I may decide to do that rear galley using a pocket screw kit I just picked up. I have an idea for it that I think is really cool and I want to see if I can execute it.

At the same time, I also have a '99 RB 7.3 Ford E350 that's just dying to have way too much money thrown at it. I may decide to go that way instead. For sure if I hit the lottery. Definitely more room inside; and more aftermarket parts available; and more upside for my investment; and in the end I think a more capable vehicle.

 

[Herbie]

Rear front facing bench that converts to bed for kids, penthouse bed for us

One more bit of bad news (sorry) - if you did end up with an Astro pop-top, you may find that the upper bunk is cozy for two adults. The way the roof is shaped, and subtracting the width of whatever top-mechanism is used (hinges, etc.), you end up with a pretty narrow bunk. I haven't measured mine lately, but I'd guess its like 40", maybe 45" tops. By comparison, my "almost" full-width north-south lower bed is ~50" (just under a "Full" mattress width), which is just about comfy for two adults. As such, it's adults downstairs and kiddo(s) upstairs for us.

When I build out the rear closet, we'll lose a couple more inches, but hopefully having better storage will offset the loss...

 

[Photomike]

I looked for a while for an Astro (Safari) but with no luck in finding one that should not already have been in the scrap yard. Would see ads like "low mileage & great shape" and find out it was 500,000KM and the inside was so worn that it was beyond horrible, would not even look at the engine as the rust on the body was 40 to 50%.

Like mentioned before unless you have a real desire for one and you are prepared for the repairs and searching for parts may be better to go another way.

I ended up going with a Ford Transit and sacrificed the 4x4. So far VERY happy! I have a medium roof so the unit is all one piece no pop top to worry about. It is one of the shorter ones so easy to drive. New so has warranty, parts readily available. There are some now coming out with 4x4 as well if you are set on that.

 

[Rune]

RVflyfish and Herbie, thanks for your input, it's very helpful to hear real world experience from owners. I'm now questioning my certainty that the Astro is the right platform for my build. I definitely would want the pop-top on the Astro, so if CCV doesn't do them anymore (or anyone else that I can find) that's probably a deal killer right there. I did ask Derek at CCV if he could use the existing fiberglass high top on an Astro to make his pop-top. No answer, so guessing that's a no.

RVflyfish, I'm surprised you think a solid front axle with 4 link would give you a better ride than the stock IFS. Torquing up the torsion keys must really compromise the ride? Or did you think the handling was not great when it was stock too?

I'm also curious why you're considering the engine swap. Is it that down on power in general, or does it not preform well under specific circumstances?

Feel like I'm back to square one with everything back on the table again. I'm curious what you all would have chosen if you were looking for your platform today? My budget tops out at around $20k.

Please give me some ideas, cause I'm about to do something sketchy with an '85 G30 I met on Craigslist........?

 

[Nesquik]

RVflyfish and Herbie, thanks for your input, it's very helpful to hear real world experience from owners. I'm now questioning my certainty that the Astro is the right platform for my build. I definitely would want the pop-top on the Astro, so if CCV doesn't do them anymore (or anyone else that I can find) that's probably a deal killer right there. I did ask Derek at CCV if he could use the existing fiberglass high top on an Astro to make his pop-top. No answer, so guessing that's a no.

RVflyfish, I'm surprised you think a solid front axle with 4 link would give you a better ride than the stock IFS. Torquing up the torsion keys must really compromise the ride? Or did you think the handling was not great when it was stock too?

I'm also curious why you're considering the engine swap. Is it that down on power in general, or does it not preform well under specific circumstances?

Feel like I'm back to square one with everything back on the table again. I'm curious what you all would have chosen if you were looking for your platform today? My budget tops out at around $20k.

Please give me some ideas, cause I'm about to do something sketchy with an '85 G30 I met on Craigslist........?

One of the underlying faults of the 4.3 is that it is both down on power and MPG- and therefore offers no real advantage over the GM V8s, especially the newer engines from the LS trucks

At 20K, it’s safe to say you should start with something else!

 

[Rune]

Things are getting hot and heavy with the Craigslist '85 G30. Guess I better start a new thread.....