better fabric-design for flippac????

[billy bee]

I talked via email with Mario about a skirt for the flippac tent. Obviously, it would need a foldover seam where it attaches to th tent itself, but my idea was for shock cord all along tthe bottom of theskirt. This wwould obviously hold the skirt down around the open lid, but would need something to grip on the cap to stay down, likean inverted hook.

When you fold up, you lift the skirt all the way around, and the shock cord will actually help hold the extra material in, right?

Right. That's exactly what I envision. In fact, the Sportsmobile tent has shock cord encircling it to draw it in for easy closure...

The problem is that it creates a seam (where the skirt is sewn to the tent) where water can come in. So, that has to be taped/sealed.

bb

 

[sixbennetts]

An overlap stitch and some seam sealer has GOT to be better than the rain gutter /trough that is the outer edge of an open Flippac lid, no?

 

[Jr_Explorer]

Spent the last few nights in my flippac. When I closed it up I noticed that one of my screens is starting to rip. Great! I reckon others will follow. I have to say. For the amount of $$ that I (all of us) paid for our flippacs. The quality would be much better than it is. Shame! It is a brilliant ideas for small engine trucks like mine and many other folks. I've had tents last 20 yrs with hard use. Go figure.
Cheers

With how much use yours has seen I can see it being subject to significant UV degradation. The new storm fly sold by SLO is reported to be easy to install and with the available windows and vents should be quite livable if installed all the time. That would provide the weather protection AND UV protection to the main canopy.

 

[ETAV8R]

This is a great thread and lots of informative discussion. When the preliminary photos/plans for the JK project were released I started pricing out what it would cost to change rigs from a truck to a Jeep. Pricey plus the cost of the habitat. I already have the flippac and truck. The deficiencies of the flippac design do need to be addressed. If a company were to produce a better design and either sell it to FRP or purchase the rights to the flippac manufacturing and plans they would have a winner.

I agree the top vent is more than noisy in windy conditions. Drives me nuts. Even with the top vent though I have experienced condensation inside the flippac while camping in dry conditions.

Screens are definitely poor quality and not as fine a mesh as I would prefer. I'm not clear on what people are meaning about inside windows. The screens/windows are typical of most ground camping tents I have had experience with. Does anyone here have a method or links to share about installing a second layer of noseeum netting?

Last month as well as last august I did trips where I spent the night in the cab of my truck instead of the flippac due to rain. These occurrences have pushed the SLO fly to the top of the list for future mods/additions to the flippac.

 

[billy bee]

With how much use yours has seen I can see it being subject to significant UV degradation. The new storm fly sold by SLO is reported to be easy to install and with the available windows and vents should be quite livable if installed all the time. That would provide the weather protection AND UV protection to the main canopy.

For extended deployment, I think the fly is a very good idea. I'd rather pay $350 to replace a fly than the FP tent.

I spoke with Karl yesterday. As you all know, we have the tent off his FP and plan to make some repairs and mods. I think we are going to keep it simple: sew down the top vent flap; skirt the tent; and address the screens. Karl may also be interested in building a new, affordable replacement tent, too, once he gets a new plotter and software (so, that may be some time off...).

Bill

 

[Dave Bennett]

Quite a few of these shells have been made over the years. There is a market for replacement tents. Same with the Wildernest, every owner I meet says they wish they could replace the worn out tent.

 

[Roaming Robertsons]

Quite a few of these shells have been made over the years. There is a market for replacement tents. Same with the Wildernest, every owner I meet says they wish they could replace the worn out tent.

Exactly. I think there will be a market for a replacement tent long before there is a market for a new flippac. If someone were to do the tooling necessary, many of us would upgrade and they could market them to AT and FRP as an all-weather option for new Flippacs.

 

[billy bee]

Exactly. I think there will be a market for a replacement tent long before there is a market for a new flippac. If someone were to do the tooling necessary, many of us would upgrade and they could market them to AT and FRP as an all-weather option for new Flippacs.

One thing to bear in mind as we think about this: portable tents have long used a fly in addition to a tent. There are variety of reasons, I guess: ventilation and weather protection are the ones that pop into my head. I don't see a simple, cost-effective solution to the FP tent situation that does not include some provision for a fly. I stress simple and cost-effective!!!

If we were to get more complex in our design we could consider other options. A fly simply creates some positive space between interior and exterior walls. So, we can look at the fly as we currently do--something we drape over the existing tent. But we could also look at the FP pole system and consider a vented interior tent that attaches to the poles from the inside, making the current tent structure the fly. We lose interior room, but there are some possibilities there. That may be too complicated, but just another way to look at this. This is probably never going to happen, but just gives us some food for thought.

bb

 

[aventurero]

Fabric/design discussion.....

Well now. Seems that this discussion has created a lot of thoughts and ideas. I never imagined that it would create so much interest. After looking at the repair of the flippac w/ the blown out hinge area. I hope that it doesn't happen to me after my own hinge fiasco. My hinge merely snapped into two pieces. And! of course Flippac was of absolutely no help. Imagine that! Sorry, my experience w/ them was so bad that I can't help but take a dig at the company. I digress. Anyway. Someone posted that regular camping style tents have some sort of fly. True. (however, Bibler Tents uses a proprietary fabric called Todd-Tex. It is awesome stuff. Good luck acquiring the fabric and it would COST! I have a Bibler Tent and it is great. And it COST! Lots$$$.) I had a thought that the interior portion of the tent could perhaps hang from the inside of the frame with the fly on the outside. Thus, creating an air space to help control condensation. The inside portion of the tent could be breathable while the outside h2o proof. It may also be possible, that this configuration could work as a unit when the flippac is opened. Mean that the fly is in place when opened like a camping tent. Yes, I do know that there are problems to be worked out w/ this idea. Just wanted to throw it out there and see where it leads. Cheers.

 

[sixbennetts]

Adventuero, I see your point on the double layer design. By redesigning the original FlipPac material to be the fly, and hanging a slightly smaller tent inside the bows, you've created an airspace that will maybe still fold up inside the cap.

Good thinking.

 

[Ursa Minor]

considerations

I had a thought that the interior portion of the tent could perhaps hang from the inside of the frame with the fly on the outside…creating an air space to help control condensation. The inside portion of the tent could be breathable while the outside h2o proof. It may also be possible, that this configuration could work as a unit when the flippac is opened. Mean that the fly is in place when opened like a camping tent. Cheers.

In the context of a tent that can be retro-fitted to a Flip Pac camper, the fly in the ointment (couldn’t resist) is that the tent poles are hinged and mounted inside of the tent wall and a couple inches down in the shell cap. Most backpacking tents have the poles on the outside of inner tent wall.

Stretch a fly on the outside, hang an interior breathable layer on inside…

• The poles would then need to go through the wall of the inner tent at some point to reach the fly.

• The lower wall of the inner tent would lie against the fly wall. There isn’t much room on the shell to re-anchor a fly farther out. Moving the interior tent wall inward (inside of the poles for example) puts it down into the shell. This would create a place for any condensation to run down and accumulate.

Really need air space all around to separate the fly from a liner, or the water that condenses on the inside of the fly will just drip on or wick through into the liner.

An observation about the overlapping vent on the top of the flip-pac - it eases opening/closing of the tent by providing a way for air to get in/out of the tent when the screens are zipped up and the glass and tailgate are shut.
- Cheers, John

 

[Roaming Robertsons]

John,

Thanks for the professional input amongst us amateurs. I never understood the top vent but what you said makes sense. As with many subjects, to those not in the business it all seems so simple. I think our best option is a fabric and design similar to the JK Habitat, but only you pros can do the math to know if it makes business sense to do the design.

-Doug

 

[ETAV8R]

The Ah-ha moment for us not in the know. The ven't makes much more sense now.
So just picturing the frame of the tent it doesn't seem so unthinkable that it could be reversed. So the frame is on the outside of the tent. At 4am it does seem as it would be a good starting point minus a super tent replacement from Ursa Minor.

 

[Dave Bennett]

The biggest issue with the design IMHO is that the fly has to be put on at all. The current design, with better materials, and a permanently attached fly is feasible. The issue is how to get the fly away from the main tent to create the air space required. I've seen some innovative inflatable designs lately, but it could be as simple as several sleeves that you stuff those foam "pool noodles" into to gain the required space between main tent and fly. They would be silent and resilient i.e. not going to break or fly off in desert winds

Just an idea, but a permanently attached fly, or just better materials like the J180/Habitat is whats needed.

 

[Finlay]

The biggest issue with the design IMHO is that the fly has to be put on at all. The current design, with better materials, and a permanently attached fly could is feasible. The issue is how to get the fly away from the main tent to creat the air space required. I've seen some innovative inflatable designs lately, but it could be as simple as several sleeves that you stuff those foam "pool noodles" into to gain the required space between main tent and fly. They would be silent and resilient i.e. not going to break or fly off in desert winds

Just an idea, but a permanently attached fly, or just better materials like the J180/Habitat is whats needed.

My RTT has supports across the roof for the fly. The supports are sewn into the fly and are held in place by little pockets sewn into the top of the walls. The fly is removable, but, as a practical matter you don't really ever have to, and it can be packed up with the tent.

The supports do require some fiddling from time to time, as one end will slip from the support pocket that holds it in place. It largely works, though.