Can a hand winch pull my F-350 CrewCab longbox or is it just too heavy?

[strider3700]

I was out playing on the local logging roads today when we came across someone with a 2wd dodge 2500 cummins that had intentionally gone down a slippery path nose first and then out a bit onto the gravel beside a river. He was quite stuck. I quickly discovered that I don't have any real recovery equipment on the truck since my off roading involves gravel roads that fully loaded logging trucks drive on daily. A few cars where up there... Anyways eventually someone else came along with a recovery strap to give him a pull and get him out. Tomorrow I'll be shopping for a strap and some mounts to attach shackles to so that I can make that pull next time.

This whole episode did get me thinking though. There are lots of roads up there I want to try that stand a much higher chance of getting stuck and we're pretty much always alone when we head off so I was thinking about self recovery. My first thought was a winch but I drive an F350 CC longbox. It's heavy enough a little research suggested I should be looking at a 12000lb winch. Not cheap. As well I'd need a bumper to mount it to which also is not cheap. I'm not in any position to buy a setup like that so I was thinking about hand winches. Most examples I saw of them involved pulling things like jeeps and the guy was working bloody hard to do it. I figured a snatch block would help if time isn't a concern but can any of the hand winches handle that type of weight?

The fact that I can leave it at home for the 99% of the time I'm not going to possibly need it makes a hand winch attractive as well.

of course tonight I found a 10000 lb champion winch used for $225. I'm not sure of the brand and the capacity though...

 

[UK4X4]

I would not even attempt to move a truck as big as yours with a hand winch, even if its rated as such, the gearing involved would mean it would move inches at a time.

You would be better off with an apropiately sized winch, in most big trucks you get away with just a small between the rail mount and not require a large bumber, even for my nissan patrol they make a behind bumper winch mount.

or if cost is a major issue

a shovel and sand ladders, will get you unstuck faster and safer than a hand winch.

a high lift with a wheel lift attachment is also a good cheap self extraction system.

 

[XJINTX]

Just an FYI...my buds F250 brokedown and we had to just trailer it. A dovetail hauler and ramps. Could not push it on

Only thing we had was a come-a-long. It worked but now the hauler has a winch

I would NEVER try a come-a-long again. Worked but took forever... I could only hope a hand winch would be better... not sure about being stuck though.

 

[bjowett]

http://www.wyeth-scott.com/

Mine is coming up on 20 years of years of hard use. Today it usually serves as a backup for my electirc winches. You will get one heck of a work out, but you'll usually get out. As mentioned, add a Highlift and a few other pieces of equipment, and you'll get out of many bad situations.

 

[strider3700]

their largest unit appears to be 1.5 tons single line 3 tons double line so I'm assuming they are already using a snatch block to get that 6000lb rating. now they say that is a dead lift capacity and roughly, 2-1 for a drag scenario so 12000lb drag which is roughly the winch size recommended for my truck. however with a 12000 lb winch I could always throw a snatch block on and get 24000 lbs which should extract me from effectively anything but I don't think the morepower puller would hold up to that.

Or am I completely wrong here as to how these things work.

Right now slow isn't a concern. it's pretty easy for me to be days of walking from anyone else so stuck is a much larger concern.

 

[BIGdaddy]

here's one rated at 7700lbs. so you can double line to 15k lbs or so. http://www.extremeoutback.com/index.cgi?cart_id=5762150.3166&pid=50

At 650.00, though, you're pretty much in the range of a cheaper/economical winch like the XRC10 from smittybilt, which seems to go for between $480 and $500.00. (quite a bit less, huh!)

So from that perspective, with so much weight to deal with, I say you have three choices.

1. fork over $$ and get yourself a brand new "cheap" winch, or a used "nice" winch. Then have a buddy weld you up a nice hidden plate steel winch cradle that has an integrated fairlead and comes out from inside your current bumper. (much like a new dodge powerwagon. works very well)

2. fork over $650.00 and get yourself a handwinch like the one I posted, and carry it in your truck, mounting it to front or rear as needed. Cost will likely even out with the winch, cuz with a handwinch you don't need more than a tough tow point, and a trailer hitch in the rear.

3. Don't go places you can get stuck.

 

[Casper]

With the right equipment you can get out no problem with a hand winch. Do some reading up on Whitewater rescue rigging, sailing rigging and such. Heck, I have seam a video of 4 guys pulling, by hand (no winch whatsoever) a fully load Humvee out of the sand that was buried up to the frame. Rigging is the key. Z-rigs and Pig-rigs are the best and easiest to learn/set up.

The downsides to this
Will it be hard and tire you out, yes
Will it take awhile and several resets of the rigging, yes
Cost, to get everything needed, good quality will it be cheaper then an electric/hydralic winch, no. About the same, could even cost more.

The upsides to this:
Will you get out, yes (might take longer, but you ain't walking home)
Will you get into better shape, yes
Will it work if the engine is not working, yes
Will it ever "overheat" from to much stress, no (but you might, so drink water and take breaks)
Will it work from any side of the vehicle, yes, front, rear and even side
Is it more dangerous, not if you have good equipment and proper knoledge.

So, does this help you, not sure. Just thought I would add my perspective. Electric/hydrolic winches are nice, but not the only way to get out. I have both, electric for most use, hand winch for if the electirc dies. Plus I keep two pre-build Pig-rigs in the truck that can be used for the either setup. They have come in handy.

Cheers,
Josh
&
Porthos
:smiley_drive:

 

[hillbillyjake]

i would not recommend a hand winch. i went threw 3 handles on my wyeth-scott and had the high lift rigged up to a chevy trailblazer this winter. could not get it out. roll back came trhe next day. pulled it out with the winch. maybe apples to oranges, i know but close enough to maybe consider.

on a side note. i was looking the other day at the smittybilt 10k winches and amazon had them fro $361 shipped. 20k double line would eventually get you out. just a thought

 

[Northern Explorer]

Post #30 and #50. These things are stout.

 

[greentruck]

Having used both come-alongs and winches, they each have their places. If you have the option, you'd want the winch.

For light vehicles, the come-along works well, but you'll be limited by the amount of cable it has -- it's going to take some time to get you out of whatever stuck you're in.

For heavy vehicles, a come-along is handy to have even if you have a winch. When you get stuck, sometimes it's good to have a second source of pull, etc and the come-along of good for that.

But a come-along equivalent to a 12k winch? :snorkel:
Dream on, even with the fancy ones that are a couple of steps above the typical come-along.

 

[chet]

your truck is really heavy and for the price of a good hand winch you could find a used Warn 8274 upright winch and have a bumper fabbed by a local shop. Sometimes the bumpers for your truck come up used. The 8274 is underrated at 8000 lbs. and can easily pull more.

Skip the champion winch. Yes they are cheap but they also are not reliable enough to sit on your bumper unused for months or years and expect it to work. My 8000 lb that I bought from costco barely had the power to pull my 4 door sidekick.

 

[WoldD90]

I would get a hitch winch set up off eBay or CL, then install a front hitch on your truck. I would also recommend a worm drive winch, like the Superwinch Husky 10. You can use it all day long and not overheat it, and with a heavy truck like yours, it will be well worth the extra money.

 

[sargeek]

Come-a-long

Depends, In a lot of stuck situations, you only need to move your truck inches to get it unstuck. The come-a-long or highlift just might do it in an emergency situation. I have also used a come-a-long to roll a vehicle back onto its wheels.

A recovery winch is a great tool, but its a large investment that might or might not pay off.

I would get a come-a-long and then invest in a real winch if you deciede you need one.

 

[michaelgroves]

A winch is a winch, whether it's powered electrically, hydraulically, or by hand. The nominal line pull of any winch is determined by its power source, and its mechanical features (gearing, leverage, drum diameter, etc.). With any winch, given enough rigging and good anchor points, there is no limit to the ultimate line pull you can achieve.

So the only benefit of going "bigger", when it comes to winching, is that you need to do less rigging, and that the actual winching will happen faster. (Keep in mind that often a 12K winch won't have any more power than a 10K winch - it is just geared a bit lower.)

If you use a hand winch, the same applies. The lever and the gearing are designed to take the forces that the average human can apply, and generate the rated line pull from that. So once again, while a 2000kg come-along may be able to generate twice as much pull as a 1000kg version, it will be because it pulls at half the speed (for the same effort-per-minute on your part). In other words, it's the equivalent of using the 1000kg version with a snatch-block. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

The trick to using a come-along, is to carry lots of rigging, and to take your time when rigging. Rig in such a way that operating the lever is easy (i.e. use lots of snatch-blocks). Yes, you will have to work it for a lot longer, but you will be less tired and sore when you are finished. It also means you can get your wife to do some of the work (most, if you're sneaky). Take lots of breaks to rest, and use the opportunity to check the rigging and re-assess the situation.

I favour a lighter-weight (but good quality) come-along, and a good variety of carefully chosen rigging. Carefully chosen because you can use different capacity ropes, block and shackles, according to how you have the system rigged. Lightweight, small diameter ropes and other components can be used on the low-load side of your rigging, and are much easier to work with.

For example, let's assume you want to pull a 6-ton (12,000lb) load. Say you have a come-along rated at 1 ton, with an integral rope and snatch-block, so the pull on the snatch block hook will be 1 ton (whereas the rope itself need only be rated at 1/2 ton - see Note below.)

Now, you could use 1-ton rope and a set of five 2-ton snatch blocks in parallel to multiply your pulling power up to 6 tons. Alternatively, you could use three 2-ton snatch blocks in parallel (with 1-ton rope), and a single 6-ton snatch-block in series with 3-ton rope. I've attached a (rough!) schematic showing both methods.

In either method, if each pull of the lever pulls the come-along rope in by 3cm, then each pull will only shift the load by 5mm.

Note: When I refer to a snatch-block with a rating of X, I mean that the force on the snatch-block itself, and everything on the far side of the rope, will be X. The pull on the rope should be limited to a maximum of X/2. (Under this assumption, a 9000kg-rated ARB snatch-block should be good for operation with a winch with a maximum pull limited to 4500kg.)


All this is a complicated way of saying that a come-along will do any job, if you have suitable anchors, enough rigging and enough time. It's a real life-saver if you find yourself stuck on rare and unfortunate occasions. But it's a real PITA if you're out having fun and getting stuck several times a day.

 

[michaelgroves]

I would get a hitch winch set up off eBay or CL, then install a front hitch on your truck. I would also recommend a worm drive winch, like the Superwinch Husky 10. You can use it all day long and not overheat it, and with a heavy truck like yours, it will be well worth the extra money.

Isn't the overheating usually a function of the electric motor, rather than the type of gear mechanism? And even if it doesn't overheat, how long you can use it is limited by battery capacity, usually measured in minutes, not hours!