Choosing between 2 diesel Cruisers

[rstl99]

I've been looking for a good diesel 60 series Cruiser for some time now (I'm up in Canada so they are more plentiful up here). I'm convinced that those trucks make (for me anyway) the best platform for heading out on secondary (or tertiary!) road trips off the beaten path.

There are two interesting Cruisers I'm considering presently (one is 5 hours away, the other 3.5 hours, and in opposite directions, so I'm dealing with long-distance logistics for viewing and possibly purchasing, we'll see...).

1. 1984 FJ60 with 77,000 miles that has recently had a high-mileage BJ60 drivetrain swapped in (3B and 5 speed). No AC. Frame off paint job, bunch of new parts. $10K US.

2. 1986 HJ60 with 250,000 kms, auto, AC. Very stock. Asking $12cdn but would likely take less. Paint job a few years ago, looks really nice. Recently tuned up (injectors etc). Everything apparently works on it. This is a city truck, that has likely never left pavement.

Mulling over which one would be best for my use: some city driving, and mainly on-road (paved or not) "expedition" type travelling up in Northern Canada and down Southwest US etc. 3B vs 2H, auto vs manual, AC or not...

Your thoughts on which one I should pay more attention to would be appreciated. THanks.

 

[ChuckB]

Don't have any experience personally with the diesels. But for me, it would depend on who did the 3B swap and the quality of the work. I also prefer manual, but that is a very tough choice. Most people are going to tell you that you need to put a turbo on the 3B, so factor that into the price as well.
I didn't really every use the AC in my 60 so you could probably get by without it, trust me I was in the Mojave desert for two years with my 60. It was easily 115F in the summer :arabia: Good luck!

 

[chet]

you need to drive both. the 2h autos I have driven are kind of dogs. About the same power as a 3b 5 spd. you can turbo a 3b and be better power than a 2h. the AC thing would not be a big deal for me. you could get all the parts from a US cruiser. some guys on ih8mud have done it.

I would look for a 2h 5 spd. they rock! but are hard to find.

Really, really really look over the frames. I have not seen one CDN cruiser that has not had frame rust. especially at the back.

 

[mountainpete]

I agree with Chet... Only one question at this stage: how much rust? It all comes down to that. If it's full of rot, stay away.

Personally, I like the 3B engine. It's reliable and with a 5 speed can still cruise over 100 kph. It is also easy to turbo if the compression is good.

Curious thought: for that much money why not look at a JDM import? If you don't mind RHD you can get a very nice Prado for the same range.

Pete

 

[rstl99]

Hi all,
And thanks so much for thoughts and advice!

Sounds like AC is not a must (indeed if one can get by for 2 years in Mohave desert without it, so can I!). Plus, with the limited HP of these diesels, might as well not rob any more power from the engine than needed.

A knowledgeable LC friend went to see the FJ/BJ. He was very impressed with the conversion, and with the body. THe FJ came from the US, low mileage, and the body/frame were extremely sound. THe owner has sandblasted and repainted the frame for good measure, and applied wax-oil to all the nooks and crannies. So the body and frame are not an issue.

The 3B engine in it came from a donor vehicle with unknown but high mileage. It apparently runs well, but may have a fair amount of blow-by. The owner says they have driven it (mostly highway, carrying heavy loads) for about 4,000 miles since the swap, and all runs well. Does not consume noticeable amount of oil. Says all older diesels have some blow-by. I will ask for a compression check before I decide to buy. Turbo would be an option I suppose. The truck also comes with a bunch of spare parts, including a spare 3B that was disassembled for inspection, and could apparently be rebuilt with new pistons, rings, gasket set.

The owner was fixing it for himself and intended on keeping it a long time, but he says he needs a bigger vehicle for his deliveries (Sprinter diesel van).

Manual's not great for city driving (I live in a city) but on the open road and off the beaten path, its reliability makes it attractive!

I'm leaning that way, though it would be nice to test drive the HJ60 with auto too. Not sure about the rust on that one. It has 250,000 kms and has driven in Canadian winters (road salt) so I doubt the undercarriage is as nice and solid as the other one.

I owned a BJ60 years ago, so wouldn't mind finding myself with one again!!

Cheers,
--Robert

 

[DaveInDenver]

Can't help with the 3B/2H. I'd probably go with the stick, neither is exactly a 1HZ and having the control over the engine is probably important. My only comparison is a 22R and they are noticeably less fun to drive with an auto.

As far as A/C, I lived without it until last summer. I love this modern A/C stuff! We still don't have A/C in the house, but after years of choking on dust while in a caravan or sweating like crazy in the summer I think it's one of the best upgrades I've ever done on my truck. If I had to pick what to keep, lift, lockers, bucket seats, etc., it would be a very tough to give up the comfort. Just getting soft I guess.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

At the end of the day, IMO rust is the biggest issue. Second would be the quality of the 3B conversion, IE no vibration, poor welds, half ass work.. 3 would be what you are focusing on now. All important, but IMO in that order. And the auto does suck. I bought a beautiful (first diesel cruiser) HJ60 5 speed in Quebec. Really surprising, perfect frame off rust/paint job. Body still looked great 2 years later. That said, rusty frame, parts, was not going to last long. Luckily I only paid about $5300 USD at the time, cheap Candian dollar at the time. Good deal, but I chose to sell it before it rotted out before my very eyes. That said it still runs and does great on the Yucatan Peninsula currently..

 

[rstl99]

Hi Andre,
I used to read your site when I owned my BJ60 several years ago. ANd yes, it rusted away pretty badly, so indeed, rust is the MAIN issue in my books, for sure. The old saying is true: mechanicals can always be fixed or replaced, but a rotten frame/body is almost impossible to fix properly again. The rust will just keep coming back.

Anyway, the FJ/BJ has apparently a very good body and strong frame on it. Seems to be a blowby situation on it, indicating high mileage on the 3B that was transplanted, but it apparently does not burn oil. The H55 apparently occasionally needs double-clutching from 3-4 or 4-3 (a little tight to shift), but no popping out of 5th (a common issue with them I hear).

And according to my friend who was able to go look at it, the conversion seems to have been well done (just a bit of sloppy wiring here and there, that will need to be improved).

I don't plan on driving my Cruiser in the winter (road salt) so the frame/body should last well.

Cheers.

 

[bj70_guy]

If you absolutely don't want a JDM (and all the niceties that can go with it (the lovely direct injected turbo diesel 12H-T, a/c, FF diff, possibly cable lockers, low miles, etc), then FWIW and IMveryHO:
The 2H with an auto is ok, but that tranny sucks away a fair amount of power. Yes you can turbo it, the 2H doesn't have piston cooling oil jets (the 3B does). A friend of mine turbo'd his auto 2H and it was great...until it died. Still no post mortem on that truck, so I can't say "yes, turbo-ing his 200,000km 2H is what caused it to eventually die an early death", but my dad, a mechanic for many, many years and a diesel freak to boot, says he'd bet on it. He also said he wouldn't turbo a higher mile 3B without doing the bottom end on it first. So if you're thinking of turbo'ing the unknown-how-high mileage 3B (and a high mileage 3B COULD be 4-500,000kms easy) in the other truck it might be best to consider rebuilding it first. WHICH, coincidentally, would probably cost around the same as buying a nice low mile 13B-T from G&S and swapping it in. Which would make for a very nice truck - that still doesn't have all the niceties of a JDM HJ61, and cost as much or more money. But a 13B-T LHD 60 with no rust would be sweet indeed.

 

[rstl99]

Hi and thanks for the thought, BJ70_guy.

Indeed, I don't think I'm cut out for JDM's. A guy I know has one and loves it, and although I don't dispute the advantages that come with it (smoother ride, more modern engine, bells and whistles, etc.), I tend to believe that they come with their own set of issues, RHD being one of them that I would rather avoid (call me old fashioned I suppose!

Anyway, hence my search for a nice diesel BJ/HJ60. They _ARE_ out there, I've seen ads for what sound like really nice specimens, but they usually come with a price tag.

Based on the reading I've been doing, I tend to agree with you that turbo'ing a 2H (HJ) is likely not a great idea (though Australians seem to have been doing it for a long time), due to design issues with that engine. Indeed, the 3B seems better suited, but as you say, with a high mileage truck it's probably not worth it. The FJ/BJ60 I am considering does come with a spare 3B that was disassembled to inspect, and I suppose that could be rebuilt if one had the gumption. Might be better in the long run, as you say, to get one of those 13B-T's and stick that in in a few years. If the truck is as sound body and frame wise as my friend who went to see it claimed (as does the owner), it might make a good long-term strategy.

From what I recall, the old BJ60 I owned had more oomph going up hills than the Land Rover 110 with 2.5NA engine I owned for a couple of years after, so I should be content with a 3B/5 speed for my use. I'm used to driving slow vehicles, and generally don't drive in a hurry.

Cheers,
--Robert

 

[rstl99]

Hi all,
Passed on the FJ/BJ60 I was telling you about. Priced a bit too high, and there was some serious blowby from the 3B engine which indicated likely piston ring wear (high mileage donor vehicle). Also, a friend who had a look at it said the wiring around the engine compartment was a little sloppy, as if the owner ran out of patience at the end of the transplant. No point buying a truck that will need an engine rebuild at that price! Even if it DID have a nice body and undercarriage (no rot).

Drove today a HJ60 (2H 6 cyl diesel engine, non turbo, 5 speed) that someone else is selling for half the price of the other one. Engine is very strong, no blowby at all when you open the oil filler plug with engine running! Transmission pops out of 5th gear sometimes. But there is rot underneath (typical for Canadian Cruisers), which turns me off. Otherwise, it might make for a fine, cheap, northern trekking cruiser. It drove very well on the highway, much more civilized than I remember my old BJ60 with standard steering (non-power assisted).

I'll try to go have a look at the 2H in Toronto (with AC and auto) and compare with the one I just drove today.

One of these days, I'll find the Cruiser for me.
Cheers,
--Robert