Considering a Suburban

SUP Dude

New member
I have been looking between a few Landcruisers and a few Suburbans... After lots of research I am hesitant to buy a Suburban due to all the transmission problems I've read of. Is this really a huge problem with all Suburbans? Are some years better as far transmission reliability? Any input would be great as i really do like the ability to sleep in burban and the amount of cargo space is unbeatable. I am just not sure what to look for in a quality Suburban so any input would be great.

Thanks!
 

ExpoMike

Well-known member
Ones with the 4L80E trans are near bulletproof and have overdrive. If you're looking older and non overdrive, ones with TH400 are as solid.

You are likely to get better help if you narrow a year range/body style. Suburban has been built since 1949 so there are a LOT of variations of them, some better than others.
 

SUP Dude

New member
Thanks. I am looking at a 93 as well as a 94 and 96. I really like the look of the early to mid 90's. Thanks again for any advice.
 

rotti

Adventurer
All my trucks and Tahoes (bought new) over the years have been Chevys, 77, 83, 90, 00, 12, and I have never once had a transmission problem. I do follow the severe service recommendations.

Keep in mind though that you are looking at vehicles that are USED, up to twenty years old and I am sure high mileage.
What kind of maintenance/abuse did they receive?
 

majornerd

Member
I, too, am considering a 'Burb'. I am looking for a 1997 9th Gen, K2500 7.0l. Anything I should look for / look out for? I am in SoCal, so I will look for rust, but generally not an issue here. Otherwise looking for help.
 
I have had a 2002 Burb and 2 1991 Burbs. I have never had a tranny problem. Both of my 91's had the 700r4 that everyone hates but no problems. Whenever I got them I flushed the trans fluid with our flush machine at work, then dropped the pan and changed the filter while adding a deep pan that holds 2 extra quarts. I bought new trans pans off ebay for like 15 bucks brand new and they came with drain plugs on them to make future filter changes easier and less messy. I also used the longer filter which was used in Buicks and Cadillacs. I love the square body style personally. Plus parts are cheap and GM made plenty of them. I also prefer vehicles older than 96 because they are still OBD I not OBD II like 96 and newer stuff. Fewer O2 sensors and cats. Anyway the point I was getting at is that there are always things you can do maintenance wise to make your vehicle last longer. Also for me it is important who I buy from. I am in the car business so I always ask the right questions to sellers. You can tell a lot about how a vehicle was treated by simply talking to the owner.
 

DavidG

Adventurer
I had a white 1991 4wd 2500 for many years. TBI 350 / 4L80E / NP241 with 8-lug 10 bolt/14bolt (semi float). It was emissions-exempt where I live since it was a heavy 8600# GVW. Barn doors, vinyl interior, rear a/c. Man, I loved that rig. Great, great Suburban. Last year of the solid front axle. With stock tires I could see 17-18mpg on the highway. Dropped off fairly dramatically once I went to a modest lift and 255/85-16 BFG Muds on the factory steelies. Go get one. Great rigs. Here's a pic from ten years ago...

IM000226.jpg
 
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I bought a 1989 Suburban a little over one month ago and could not pass it up due to the maintenance records and low miles (112,000) that it came with. It has the 700R4 transmission but I am planning on adding a good sized transmission cooler to help keep it cool so I won't have any problems. I have gotten 19mpg on the highway doing 65mph, 12.3 mpg in town and towing on the highway and 14 mpg on recent trip to Moab that included some 4 wheeling and in town travel (80% highway and 20% other).


IMG_1068 by RockyMtnFamily, on Flickr

I had considered a Landcruiser but with 5 kids really needed the additional space that the Suburban has to offer. Also the Landcruiser have dismal gas mileage compared to the Suburbans and do not have a lot of power going up the mountain passes or towing. I was impressed with the power on the out of town trip I took with our trailer as well as the recent trip to Moab. I was able to pull steep grades at 75mph without pushing the pedal down too much, although I tried to keep it to 65-70mph for better fuel efficiency. I agree about keeping it maintained or looking for a rig that has been cared for so you can get a good one. I passed on 5 others before finding the one I wanted. My only complaint would be the GM paint of the 1980-1990's, but mine still has 95% of it's paint intact, not bad for a 23 year old vehicle.

Also, when shopping for one, I asked other members of this board for their advice (mostly) specific to the older models 1987-1991. Due to the time and effort they took in sharing their knowledge with me, I think it is appropriate to pass this information forward to others:

Calplaya said:
Suburbans are very fun and practical vehicles in my humble opinion. They do provide a ton of room (a good deal more then Yukons and Tahoes as you have mentioned) and at not a whole lot of trade off. I believe the guy when he says he averages high teens for fuel economy, that is a nice benefit of diesels. But the gas 350s are capable of those numbers too if you get one from 92 on up, the 350s were reworked a little bit and their fuel economy was dramatically improved because of it. I have a friend with a 93 burban with the 350, has 285k miles and gets 18 mpg with it pretty regularly. When I am nice to my Burban I get about 12-14 on the highway as long as their fairly flat, but mines a pretty unsophisticated haha, but I do think that creates less headaches down the road, personally.

Lets see, I would ask to see if the turbo is working and if it is if it has been replaced? I know a few people who have had turbo issues with those 6.5Ls, which to me i wouldnt mind if i had the cash, cuz id just replace it with a larger and more efficent Garret turbo anyway, but if your not looking for that sort of expense then youl be especially curious about that. Make sure he let the turbo wind all the way down before getting back on the gas, alot of guys new to the diesel game dont do that and ruin their turbos pretty quickly becuase they rev it the way they would a gas, without letting the thing settle down completely again. Diesels are pretty good for many miles though, so if its been well taken care of then I wouldnt have too much of an issue buying or trading for one with that kind of miles on the clock. Ask him how much it has towed, if at all. Some people bought the 6.5L simply for the constant 17-18 mpg and never did an ounce of towing with them. Ask too about transmission maintenance. how often was it flushed? was it ever replaced? any shifting issues etc? does it get hot etc etc?

All in all, the 6.5L is a decent engine, but they are not huge powerhouses of engines. tuning the turbo to pump in more PSI and new injectors, 4 or 5 inch exhaust etc, wont gain you huge power. about the best 6.5L runs about 330HP to 400 tops, and after you reach that, your pushing the limits of the engine. But for a good old reliable workhorse, theres not many made better. But diesels are a bit more costly to own then a gas engine. They have many expensive parts, that can go out seemingly at the same time, and your wallet will be crying out in agony to pay for it. plus regular things like oil changes typically range between 80-100 bucks, depending on the filters and oil used and if you do it yourself or have it done by a shop. I know a 7.3L is about 120 bucks to change the oil and filter on, but i think the 6.5L would be a bit less expensive since it uses a little less oil haha.

Otherwise without lifting the truck you can fit on 33 inch tires pretty easy, but if you want to put on 35s or larger youd need like a 4 inch lift and maybe do a bit of cutting too, I have heard of people putting on 35s without the lift, but they had to cut away alot of truck in the process. If your interested in maintaining decent fuel economy and having a decent on road ride and still be able to get through almost anything off road, I would say look no further then 33s. Heck im running 31s on mine right now until i save up more for 33s, but I have yet to get stuck. Also, you would be surprised what these big ol beasts can get through. I have had a few times out when I thought it was too large to pass, and it made it just fine, I think a lot of people psych themselves out because of its size but never really test their theory, they just say "no, its too big." and call that good. lucky for me mines rusty and beat enough and cheap enough too that I have been able to be a bit more reckless with it then others, and they are very capable beasts. Be aware though that since they have such a long wheel base, they do bounce and jiggle a lot more then say a small Jeep would haha, but once you get used to the bouncing, it becomes pretty fun pretty fast, just make sure you dont have anything too valuable flying around in the back haha.

I'm working on mapping out a storage sleeping platform for mine, but once i go through it I probably wont be able to use my third row seat again, but I have slept in mine without that a lot with an air mattress etc, and man, these things are enormous! I cant stress how awesome they are for personal or family expo/fishing/camping use.

Both the 6.5L and the 5.7L are great, solid platforms so it really comes down to personal prefrence...and wallet for repairs. Having a diesel is always an expensive proposition. Repairs are almost never cheap, but luckily on 90s suburbans their a bit cheaper then on more modern ones, but cheap in the diesel world is a relative term haha. Personally if I were relying on something for all year use, cold starts and cheap repair bills, I would opt for a 100k mile 350. the 5.7L is one of the all time greatest engines ever built, mine has 150k on it and I know when my Lincoln is giving me problems, I can always rely on my ol Burban haha. But after 95 (and Im sure you know this from your own research, but just a refresher) they changed the cast material for the blocks to a cheaper metal and replaced the heads with more efficent Vortec heads. yeah the block isnt as good of material, but its still a good engine regardless, you just cant romp on them like the older ones really, but most dont do that to Suburbans anyway.

The gas job will aways start easier in the winter, even if you forget to plug in the block heater. I do think the reason my friend gets exceptional mileage is because he never ever gets into the throttle, but if your like me youl step into it at least a little to get up to speed quicker, and if thats the case then youl get minimum 14 and on longer drives up to the 18 mark. Plus 9 times out of 10 you wont have to throw it into 4 wheel drive since their so heavy and monstrous they can get through a ton in 2 wheel drive.

Plus the 350 will be able to tow most anything you need to tow, even a 25' RV if you wanted, just be sure to hook yourself up with the correct hitch for that kind of towing if you plan on that, so it wont sag quite as bad and ruin your suspension.

I know quite a bit about the 6.5L but in all honestly I am not too familiar with the 6.2L unfortunately. I know the early ones were basically a reworked 350 and were prone to excessive overheating and oil leaks and loss of pressure etc, but Im reasonably sure mid to late 80s ones had most if not all of those issues resolved, but I still am a little leary of them, in all honesty. The 6.5L I have always known to be a good strong reliable platform, but I could never trust the 6,2L the same way, you know? But for me to say that really is not fair to the engine if its problems were resolved. Heck Fords 6.0L had numorous issues, but with the right parts those can be resolved and it turns into one heck of an engine, and really its reputation is as bad if not worse then the 6.2L's...wish i could help more on that front, but I'm just not as well acquainted with them as I should be. All i can really tell you is stay away from the early ones, for sure.

warrpath4x4 said:
This isnt my first suburban and not even my first 91, i like them because you can haul everyone and just about anything you need and still pull a trailer.

91 was the last year for a straight axle (in a blazer, suburban, or one ton crew cab 4x4 pickup), 87 was the first year for fuel injection. for the old body style the best year to get is a 91 2500 becuase you get the 4L80E transmission (which is a one ton transmission), and a 241 transfercase which you can do a slip yoke eliminator on.

as for mileage mine is a little different from most peoples, and im not really sure why. most people get between 10-15 mpg, this can be brought up by driving style, tire selection, tune ups. my suburban has a rebuild 5.7 liter and rebuilt 4L80E at the same time and i get 21MPG freeway.

There a ton of upgrades that can be done on these old rigs, axle swaps, motor swaps (big block, 5.3, 6.0, 12V cummins), trans swaps (4L80E, 465, 4500)

Larry said:
I've had my Burb for almost a year but I've only put about 800 miles on it since then and never took any MPG measurements. I suspect the way it sits it probably gets around 10 MPG as it has the 4 speed manual without overdrive (manuals are rare in Burbs). I'll be putting in a NV4500 5-speed with overdrive this winter if all goes as planned.

Really, regardless of which model or engine you go with on a Burb, the fuel economy isn't great. That is a lot of metal to move do the road!

As far as pointers, sounds like you already have a good idea….the 1500's will have overdrive but will have the less than sterling rear axle. 2500's will have a stronger trans (Th400 or SM465 4 speed manual, if you find one) and a bit stronger rear axle with bigger brakes but no overdrive. Bigger brakes are handy if you're planning to pull a trailer. If you are towing I would recommend finding one that has at least 3:73 gears. Even though mine is a 2500 it has 3:42 gears and couldn't pull a greasy string out of a Coke bottle, which is why I am going through an axle swap.

I believe 1991 was the only year you could get a 4L80 in a 2500 of this body style. Both the 1500 and 2500 4x4s will have a 5.7L or 6.2L diesel. 7.4L engines were not available in 4x4 burbs until 1992 when the newer body style came out. 700R4's are nice because they have overdrive and will help with MPG somewhat but they are a finicky trans that doesn't have a reputation for being very durable, especially when towing. What little you may save at the pump may cost you in a trans replacement before long. On the other hand, TH400's are very durable. 6.2L diesels will deliver the best fuel economy but they too are finicky and I don't personally find them very reliable or durable plus they are expensive to repair or replace when they blow up.

If you are interested in a Suburban after reading their comments I would strongly suggest you look up Larry's Build thread as well as other posts where they shared their knowledge.

Good luck with your decision.

Kevin
 
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Heloflyboy

Adventurer
We have had 2 a 1995 and our current one is a 2001 GMC Yukon XL 1500 ( same as suburban). The only problem I have had is a fuel pump 200 miles from home. It is pretty common I have been told. If you have kids my wife and I think they are one of the best vehicles. I do quite a bit of towing with ours and with 149k miles, have had no transmission problems. I do service it about every 20k miles since I tow a decent load through the mountains. It gets about 14 mpg in town and 18 on the freeway. Here is a pic of what we usually tow.
Good Luck
nissanontrailer.jpg
 

AA1PR

Disabled Explorer
everything is eventually going to have problems, I would rather buy American and have parts readily available at a lesser price then the imported ones when that time comes
 

legendaryandrew

Adventurer
What is the intended use of the vehicle? What year land cruisers have you been looking at? How many people plus gear do you need to haul? Is towing a priority? Those are very very different vehicles even being similar in that they're SUV's. The LC is better off road, has exponentially larger aftermarket support, is better in constant icy/snowy climates due to it's full time AWD, and has better build quality. The Sub makes a better tow vehicle, has a better engine (more reliable, more power, easier and cheaper to fix), FAR more space, much cheaper when considering equivalent year/miles, IMO makes a better all-purpose vehicle as it can do everything fairly well, and as you mentioned has sleeping accommodations (unless you're like 7'2").

All that said, I've had/have both an FZJ80 ('97 Land Cruiser), and an '03 Sub 2500 w/ 8.1/4L80E/85E trans, and I got rid of the LC. I don't off-road that much so the LC's superior abilities there weren't being utilized, but I do haul a lot of crap, and the Sub tows better, has almost twice the power, and still gets almost the same fuel economy (LC 11mpg all the time, Sub 8-10 city, 13-14mpg fwy). I can also fully stretch out in the back of the Sub, where I couldn't in the LC, and I'm only 5'11".

Oh yeah, and transmission. No problems. At all. AFAIK, GM makes some damn good transmissions.
 

BurbanAZ

Explorer
Ive had 3 suburbans and ever and never had one transmission issue with any of them and had them off road and pull a horse trailer. If u can go with the 4l80e, they are awesome and damn near bulletproof in my opinion.
 

rollinsmokehigh

New member
I have a 97 k1500 and have been through two trannies and the last time i added a spin on filter and synthetic trans fluid and change the filters and fluids regularly, also everything has a failure point and everyone may not see the same issues. That s my thought take it or leave it.
 

DMT

K7DMT
Big Thumbs Up for 94-96 6.5TD Suburbans

I went through the same exercise before I landed on the decision to go with a Diesel Suburban, and then it took me six months to locate the right one for my build. I was leaning towards the Landcruiser option and looked at some really nice ones, but I couldn't ignore the following: I can tow a lot more with a K2500 diesel Suburban (3x a year I need to tow a heavy 3-axle trailer for the scout fund-raiser) 2) a lot more room for stretching out, (with the two back benches out and the 2nd row folded down there is caverous space for sleeping in the Burb) 3) plenty of room underneath for mounting things (i.e. for airtanks, aux fuel cell, compressor, 3rd battery, etc. and 4) ability to install a 4th row bench in the back (a couple times a year I need belted seating for eleven), and 5) it is a beast, and with the right tires (Toyo MTs) it can go about anywhere it fits.

The fact that it gets consistently 17-20 mpg whether it is loaded or not is an added bonus.

Finding the right 6.5 Burb is the trick. Definitely go with the 4L80E - it truly is bulletproof. And there are a few necessary mods you have to do to make the rest of the vehicle reliable (PMD relocation, letting the turbo breath with a fatter exhaust and freer airbox, fixing the thermal front diff actuator with a mechanical one--one that actually works in deep snow).

I feel pretty good about my decision. I've never had transmission problems, but I drive sensibly, esp. offroad and heavy towing, and I don't expect the 6.5 to be a powerhouse. Its not. But if treated right, it will last a long, long time.

Good luck.

DMT
 

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