Considering buying or building a 4WD adventure van

[nynco]

Hello everyone, I have been reading over the boards now for a little bit and have been doing a great deal of learning.

In an ideal world I could afford a VW Syncro Vanagon with a poptop and a Tdi conversion, but those are WAY out of my price range. Not to mention parts are not cheap. I have been driving VWs and Audis since I was in the service and I am quite familiar with them. But its crazy that a syncro non camper is still going for 8K with 250K miles or more... I currently drive an Audi A4 wagon and the AWD system in that makes the car unstoppable on hard road.

So I have been on the search for a different platform. I have starting to home in on an AWD Astro or Safari van. But I have a few questions that you all might be able to help me with. Or if you all think that a different vehicle would suit me better please suggest one. I want a van that is either AWD or 4x4. I want one that either has a locking dif or an LSD either stock or that can be installed. I want a van where the seats fold flat for covert camping. I would not mind finding a van that I could either install a poptop camper onto or has one already. I also want a van that gets GREAT gas millage because I plan to drive it all over the country. I also want one that can do some moderate off road stuff. Like being able to get to a perfect surfing or camping location off the beaten path. I would most likely install a lift kit of some sort.

Now, I am also thinking about doing a diesel swap into what ever I get. So hopefully I can find a van where the gears can be changed or has the ability to adjust the shift points for a diesel. I have not decided on an engine but it will be a turbo 4 or 6 of some sort.

I love the Honda Element, but they have no locking dif and dismal ground clearance. I hear the lift kits are not the best for that car. So that is most likely out.

So am I on the right track with the Astro/Safari? I am hesitant just because every GM car I have dealt with felt like it was going to fall apart compared to my Audi. The plastic parts just feel flimsy. If I do go for one of those, what kind of van would I be looking for if I was hoping to get a diesel into it one day? Does the seats in a an Astro/Safari fold flat into a bed in the rear? Also what breaks on them and what should I be worried about when searching for one? Plus should I look at a different vehicle?

Thanks everyone.
N

 

[nynco]

Also, I am not well versed on all the terminology for America vehicles - like Dana, 6 bolt - 9 bolt and what not. Anyone have any links to a site that explains that stuff? I addition any links to articles about the drive train for the Astro's?

 

[Bbasso]

start with your budget and then triple it.
I say that because you have mentioned that the VWs are pricey...

how long do you plan on staying in the adventure project?
what types of terrain do you plan on covering?

I'm biased a bit, but have you looked for Econolines that have 4X4 / or thought about getting one and making it 4X4?
in past searching I've seen some nice Astro/Safari vans with AWD but they cost a bunch, then it's only so big...

 

[nynco]

I don't know, in my area, AWD Astros and Safaris are all over the place. I see one in CL right now with 90K miles for 3K.

 

[haven]

Hi nynco, welcome to ExPo!

The words "van" and "great fuel economy" rarely can be found in the same sentence. Diesel conversion is very expensive if you need someone else to do the work. So it's best to look for a van that already has the diesel engine. The cost of converting to 4x4 is less than the diesel conversion. One source is used ambulances, built on Ford E350 diesel chassis.

A cheaper approach might be to find a 90s Chevy Suburban with 4x4 and a diesel motor. Lots of room inside for stuff, and you could add a rooftop tent in half an hour. Here's an example http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=72443216

 

[nynco]

Yeah I know conversions are not easy. But I have done them before. Back in the mid 90s I dropped a VR6 into my 85 golf while I was in Germany. That was a fun swap. V6 power in a go cart chassis. So I know its a lot to bite off. But nothing I have not done before. Heck my motor cycle is a total franken bike. FZR400 frame, YZF600r motor, TZ250 rear wheel, FZR400rr swing arm, GSXR750 forks with a ducati front wheel, plus way more. I am leery of the full size vans because of fuel costs. I can source a isuzu motor for like 1K. Its also a personal thing. I don't want to pay any more to those greedy oil company bastards than I need to. I try to make it through 90% of the winter without the heat on rather than paying Xcel. So a Tdi is appealing for that reason. A suburban is just too much car for my needs. If I got a ford diesel, I would pull the V8 and put in a Cummings turbo diesel, so that is a possibility. There was a nice yellow one on CL local about a month ago. Guy would not answer his phone so I think it sold fast.

 

[bahndo]

Is it just you by yourself or is there a sig. other, kids, dog(s), etc.? Judging by what you have posted so far I would guess it's just you and maybe a girlfriend. When I was in your shoes I was woking on a 4bt fj60 rig for just the adventures you have mentioned (mostly kayaking, skiing and surfing). I would definitely go that route again but now I have a wife a 2 year old and another due in May so I drive a big *** dodge (diesel) and love every minute of it. I love it so much that I am scheming an EarthRoamer esque build on the same truck....

 

[nynco]

While Fj's are great cars, I am more longing for a van. Main reason is I want something to sleep in. I actually spent over a month sleeping in my Mazda Millenia around the Outer Banks surfing. Front seats on that car folded down flat as a bed. After that time, it made me finally want to shift to a van. A. so I could get to some more off road places and B. so that I could covert camp in it if need be.

The reason I was asking about the other stuff is in the future if I want to do a diesel swap, I would rather start with a van that was a little easier to convert. One with a better choice of gear box for gearing change if need be.

Oh and you are right, it is just me, my dog and my GF. But I can see a family being an issue in the future. So I am trying to plan a head and build a vehicle to keep for 10 years or more.

 

[haven]

Biodiesel will appeal to the cheapskate in you. If you have room in a garage, it's not difficult to set up the equipment necessary to turn waste vegetable oil (WVO) into diesel fuel. It might cost $0.50 a gallon to produce your own biodiesel, providing that you can find a restaurant willing to give you their waste oil for free. (That's getting more difficult these days.) Price per gallon when sold by independent producers varies between $1 and $2 a gallon.

Check out UJoint Offroad http://www.ujointoffroad.com for information about lifting a van to fit larger tires, and converting to 4x4. Owner Chris Steuber is an ExPo sponsor, and posts in this section with the user name ujoint.

 

[haven]

I took a quick look on Craigslist. Here is one vehicle I would consider

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/2883311501.html
2005 Sportsmobile E350 6.0L diesel, 38K miles, 4x4 by Sportsmobile
The 2005 can run on standard diesel, rather than ULSD. That makes it possible to drive to Mexico and beyond without deleting the emissions equipment. I know people are leery of the 6.0L Powerstroke, and with good reason. But I think there is enough knowledge of the engine's weak points and how to address them. Sportsmobiles hold their value very well.

I'd also look on the Sportsmobile web page for used vehicles. Several diesel 4x4 vans here
http://sportsmobile.com/z-PO_calif.html

more diesel 4x4 E350

http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/cto/2885017724.html

http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/cto/2844821641.html

http://limaohio.craigslist.org/ctd/2860955345.html

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/2854395520.html


more gasoline 4x4 E350

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/cto/2881932498.html

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/2817837903.html

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/2873380533.html

http://cnj.craigslist.org/cto/2811697814.html

http://stgeorge.craigslist.org/cto/2883596107.html

 

[nynco]

Thanks for all the links, but to be honest, all those things are way out of my price range. I am more into finding the diamond in the cheap rough or building one from a cheap starting point and doing it over time. 69K or even 20K for a van is just way too out of my price range. I am trying not to finance anything and just pay out of pocket.

 

[nynco]

And thank you for the link to converting to 4x4. That should come in handy even for the knowledge read.

 

[dsw4x4]

Nynco,
I wpuld ster away from the astro if your looking to do a diesel swap the front end would be a little light duty for that use. And packaging will also be an hugh issue. Beside that astros fuel milage is not that far off of a full size van for the amount of space you gain it cost 2 or 3 mpg it is not worth it especially if you plan on growing a family into this van you are going to put all of the work into. Your wish list in one vehicle to have everything you want can only be built by going to see the wizard at the end of the yellow brick road! Good luck with your adventure of building the ultimate rig it will be fun and exciting to see what direction you go in. Also I am soon to be doing a 4bt swap in a old econoline. I looked at going the isuzu route and think it would be a very cool option. If I were you with your outlook on the build it would be a ford e 1,2or350 older is fine because your pulling the motor any way. I would find one already converted to 4wd swap in your motor and build out the camper part. The yellow one you spoke of in freely was trashed that van came from the east and had body cancer so bad the body mounts were rotted through and collapsing on them selves pules it had some major major electrical issues. But it looked good in the pictures, your could poke your fingers through the body anywhere within 12 inches of the bottom of the body. I did it and it did not make the owner to happy. I him hawed around with offering him 500 for it but was scared he would say yes and I would have to drag that thing home.
Derek

 

[Deleted member 1276]

Haven, how are you searching CL in so many areas? They disabled national search so long ago and the few national search web tools that existed the last time I looked have disappeared...?

 

[ihatemybike]

I actually think you are on the right track starting out with an AWD Astro. They are quite capable in stock form and are really easy to modify for better off road performance. They don't have fold flat seats, but the seat backs fold forward. I built a platform behind them that is level with the folded backs and use a full size futon mattress. I can easily fold the mattress on top of the platform, making both benches available for seating. Stock you'll get 16-18 mpg if you treat the throttle nice.

Diesels have been swapped in Astros. There's enough room for SBCs, so if the diesel can fit where a SBC does you should be good. I haven't heard any complaints about the extra weight of the diesel engines. Heavier torsion bars from other GM might swap in. I've seen the Isuzu 3.9L I4 swapped into many 4.3L equipped vehicles, so maybe that's an option.