Converting Xterra hubs to Titan pro 4x hubs.

[KiwiKurt]

I want to run a 17" wheel, possibly a beadlock wheel, when I upgrade my larger tires...the sizes in 17" are becoming more favorable as a standard, and IMO the XTerra should have had 17's on it from the factory. The problem is absolutely no one makes a 17" wheel in our bolt pattern, but the Titan Pro-4X (and others) run a 6x139.7mm, which is a very standard size. (all toyota trucks are running it.)

Anyone done a swap of just the hubs or something to get Titan bolt pattern? What would have to be done?

 

[skibum315]

Easiest would be to run adapters to convert ... but that'll also effectively increase your offset and reduce your backspacing (pushing the outboard face of the wheel - and tire - further out).

Alternatively, you could drop in the whole spindle & hub & brake assembly ... the upper and lower ball-joints should be the same, the hubs/unit-bearings themselves are not interchangeable, and I do not believe the Xterra brakes bolt up to the Titan spindles. The half-axles & tie-rod ends will mate up fine, though ... the axle outers have same diameter and spline count, and the TREs have the same interface at the spindle.

Is your X a manual or an AT? If AT, you may wind up ultimately needing to swap over to the Titan master cylinder, as well ... the few reports I've seen (on TNX, from PRG Greg and OregonX) of folks who went to Titan hubs and brakes, seemed to say that stopping power was okay but pedal feel was mushy with the Titan units on the Xterra master cyl. If you're an MT, I don't know if there's a way to adapt the clutch to the Titan cylinder ... they're shared on the X (between brakes and clutch). ClubFrontier would be another place to look for reports of folks who have made the same swap - the Frontier & Xterra share front-end components, save sheet metal.

 

[Strizzo]

easiest solution if you want to end up with the titan bolt pattern is probably to find a titan in the JY and do a full titan front suspension swap. if you can find one with the right one it will have a 3.36 ratio M205 front axle to match the xterra factory off road/pro-4x ratios, and the M205 is a bit stronger. this will give you more travel in the front and a wider stance, then you can use 1.5" spacer adapters in the rear to match the bolt pattern back there.

 

[skibum315]

o_0 ... why push him all the way to the full Titan suspension & diff swap, if all he wants is to run 6 on 5.5 beadlocks?

KiwiKurt, it also occurs to me that there are some wheel manufacturers out there who will custom drill their wheels for non-standard hubs ... is that something you've looked at at all?

 

[KiwiKurt]

o_0 ... why push him all the way to the full Titan suspension & diff swap, if all he wants is to run 6 on 5.5 beadlocks?

KiwiKurt, it also occurs to me that there are some wheel manufacturers out there who will custom drill their wheels for non-standard hubs ... is that something you've looked at at all?

I have considered it worth exploring, I will call Hutchinson's to see if they will. The advantage to having a toyota wheel pattern is on the off chance i have a wheel failure while OCONUS its easier to find toyota parts in a lot of places. the 6x5.5 is just a standard across a whole lot of brands, and frankly the Xterra should have come with it.

I have zero desire to do a full Titan front end swap...but I do appreciate the explanation guys.

If i were to use wheel adapters/spacers, how much are we talking? I wouldnt mind if the wheels come outboard a little, as long as it doesnt affect suspension travel/flex when the wheels are stuffed.

 

[KiwiKurt]

Easiest would be to run adapters to convert ... but that'll also effectively increase your offset and reduce your backspacing (pushing the outboard face of the wheel - and tire - further out).

Alternatively, you could drop in the whole spindle & hub & brake assembly ... the upper and lower ball-joints should be the same, the hubs/unit-bearings themselves are not interchangeable, and I do not believe the Xterra brakes bolt up to the Titan spindles. The half-axles & tie-rod ends will mate up fine, though ... the axle outers have same diameter and spline count, and the TREs have the same interface at the spindle.

Is your X a manual or an AT? If AT, you may wind up ultimately needing to swap over to the Titan master cylinder, as well ... the few reports I've seen (on TNX, from PRG Greg and OregonX) of folks who went to Titan hubs and brakes, seemed to say that stopping power was okay but pedal feel was mushy with the Titan units on the Xterra master cyl. If you're an MT, I don't know if there's a way to adapt the clutch to the Titan cylinder ... they're shared on the X (between brakes and clutch). ClubFrontier would be another place to look for reports of folks who have made the same swap - the Frontier & Xterra share front-end components, save sheet metal.

Great info.

Sounds like a wheel adapter is the easiest solution. What brand do you suggest?

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[skibum315]

I agree ... given that the Titan's got the 6 on 5.5, and the 1st gen Xterra/Frontier had it ... as well as older Pathfinders and pickups ... I never could quite figure out why they went down to 6 on 4.5 ...

If i were to use wheel adapters/spacers, how much are we talking? I wouldnt mind if the wheels come outboard a little, as long as it doesnt affect suspension travel/flex when the wheels are stuffed.

You mean how thick, for the spacer? I guess the minimum thickness would be the depth of the studs on the Xterra hub ... I know some folks run 1.5" adapters, have heard about 1.25" spacers (like an adapter, in that it bolts to your existing studs; but keeps the same BCD) so that may be the thinnest. Then you have to account for any difference in wheel width or offset ... the spacer itself won't affect suspension function, but as I said it'll have the same effect as increasing offset or reducing backspace on your wheels. You'll be more likely to rub at the back of the fender, and if your new wheels are wider or sit further outboard than the stock wheels would, you'll be more likely to hit the top of the fender with the tire at full stuff. It's not going to be too hard to get the equivalent 3" additional track width, per side, that the Titan has over the Xterra with a combination of spacers and aftermarket wheels.

The stock wheels are a pretty narrow (7" or 7.5" depending on model) and pretty high offset & backspace (30-31mm and 5"-5.5", respectively ... if I remember right) ... so when aftermarket wheels are wider, and have less offset, that means they're almost all going to stick further out. And that's before you add the adapters to the equation. Now, that's not to say don't do it ... but I'd be pretty surprised if you could do it without having to trim the fenders. Best bet, might be to get a set of adapters and have a local trusted fab shop put some of those weld-on beadlock rings onto some stock Titan (or Toyota or other common make) steel wheels, as long as they are narrower and high(er) backspace ... or just put the rings on a set of the Xterra/Frontier/Pathfinder steel wheels (there is an 18 hole 17" black steel wheel available ... was the spare on trucks that came with 17" alloys).

Unless you meant how much $$$ ... in that case, I'm not entirely sure ... I'd guess anywhere from $200 to $4 or $500 for a set, depending on where they come from. Just be careful if you go for the eBay ones, as I've heard rumors about cheap studs and lugnuts bottoming out with thinner wheels (like steelies) ... actually the bottomed out lugnuts isn't a rumor, happened to a buddy of mine on the way to Moab and he trashed the BCD on one of his wheels as it moved around.

Sounds like a wheel adapter is the easiest solution. What brand do you suggest?

There's a bunch out there ... I talked to Fred Goeske at WheelAdapter.com when I priced a set for the rear of my truck, and he's a great guy ... classic gear head type, and really knew his business. He'd probably be able to get you exactly what you're after (if you want the thinnest possible) and his are also both hub and lug centric ... they're not going to go anywhere once properly installed. Plus there's the added benefit of supporting a small(er) US company that's a real 'mom & pop' kind of place ... if that's your thing. I think a set from him will run ~$400, IIRC ... but call to order, as I'm pretty sure all of Fred's stuff is build to order and he'll get you exactly what you need. http://wheeladapter.com/nissan_wheel_spacers.php and http://www.wheeladapter.com/contact.php

If you want to save a little bit, there's a bunch of guys on New X who swear up and down that the EZAccessory.com adapters are good stuff ... but I think that's what my friend had on his truck. As long as you're careful with the installation, though, they should be okay ... don't think they'd do any custom work, though. Probably more like $200 for their set ... http://www.ezaccessory.com/Wheel_Adapter_6_Lug_4_5_To_6_Lug_5_5_p/6450-6550j.htm

There are others out there like adaptitusa.com and Google will turn up more ... but I can't comment to them, directly.

 

[KiwiKurt]

Supremely helpful.

The stock xterra wheel is 16x7 with a 30mm offset. The 4runner wheel is a 17x8 with a 15mm offset. So with a spacer thats going to stick out too far right? With a spacer I would need more offset for the wheel to fit the same way? The titan pro4x runs 18x8 with a 25mm offset....

And yeah...I wont buy any ebay junk. I had a set of spider trax on my jeep and they worked well...wouldnt want some cheap crap on there.

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[Strizzo]

i'm not sure why you're dead set on running beadlocks (not street legal, btw) but don't want the additional travel that a titan swap would add?

If all you want is the 6 on 5.5 bolt pattern just buy two titan front hub bearings and swap with your stock ones. you'll need a spacer adapter for the rear which might look wierd with the added width on the rear, or you could have two titan axle shafts cut down and resplined to fit the xterra width rear end.

also be aware that the titan wheels, while they are the same bolt pattern, use a different size center bore, so to run toyota wheels you'll probably want hubcentric rings to fill the gap.

 

[skibum315]

The Titan front unit-bearings/hubs have a different bolt pattern to the spindle than the Xterra ones ... there's decent pictures on Rock Auto, or I think there might be comparison pics available on TNX.

From Rock Auto -
Titan Timken P/N: SP500703 - linky

Xterra Timken P/N: SP450701 - linky

... this is why I said what I did in my first post ... if he swaps the Titan unit bearings/hubs, he'll also need the spindles & brake rotors, if he swaps the spindles & brake rotors, he'll also need the brake calipers ... up to him at that point, whether he wants the master cylinder as well ... it'd depend on if he likes the feel of it.

Kurt - when you say 'stick out too far' what are you concerned with? If you're worried about having to trim the fenders, then tire size will play as well ... if that's the big concern, you need to look at the scrub radius. Stock wheels with 285x75r16 tires usually do just fine with only a 'melt mod' ... using heat to reshape the fender liner out of the way ... with aftermarket wheels, that size tire will often need a little bit of trimming to the pinch seam at the back of the fender, or to the lip of the fender at the rear ... rarely will much of the external fender surface need to be cut. It's when you start looking at the combination of aftermarket wheel, larger tires *and* additional travel (like with Titan suspension) or spacers, that more wheel arch (at the top and rear) is sometimes needed.

 

[skibum315]

The stock xterra wheel is 16x7 with a 30mm offset. The 4runner wheel is a 17x8 with a 15mm offset.

Wanted to add some thoughts on this statement ... may help with comparing. Offset is the measurement from the wheel centerline to the wheel mount surface, positive is generally indicative of the WMS being outboard of the wheel's centerline, negative conversely means the WMS will be inboard of the centerline. So, to compare the Xterra and T4R wheels, we want to know where the outboard face will sit ... the distance from the WMS to the outboard face.

For the Xterra wheel:
CL to Outboard face: 7"/2 = 3.5" --> Offset in inches: 30mm = ~1.18" --> WMS to outboard face: 3.5 - 1.18 = ~2.32"

For the T4R wheel:
CL to Outboard face: 8"/2 = 4" --> Offset in inches: 15mm = ~0.59" --> WMS to outboard face: 4 - 0.59 = ~3.41"

... so the T4R wheels would sit roughly and inch further outboard, from the same mounting surface, than the X wheels. If you add adapters, you're just moving the WMS outboard by the thickness of the adapter ... so you could run the same exercise on whatever other wheel you're looking at, to compare it to stock, and then add on the adapter thickness (if any) needed to run the other wheel; and you'll know how much further out those wheels will sit, than the stock wheels. If you're going to larger tires, as well, then that's an added complication to figure out, but not impossible.

I had a set of spider trax on my jeep and they worked well...

Spidertrax makes great stuff ... they made a set of 6 on 4.5 to 6 on 5.5 adapters for a while ... but I don't think they sold very well as they've not been on the Spidertrax website for a while; you may be able to talk them into another run, however (or a single set, if you contact them directly). Nisstec may have some insight there, I think they may have helped put together a batch at one point.

 

[KiwiKurt]

so to recap......

17 wheels seem to have a better availability of tire sizes out there, hence the attraction.....

From what Im gathering from above, titan hubs are pretty much a no go unless i want to convert a bunch of stuff in the front a rear, which I dont. I have no desire to do custom axles etc at this point. I found a 6x4.5 to 6x5.5 conversion spacer, and looks like that is 1.25"....so with the difference in toyota offset would mean 4runner trail wheels would stick 2.25" further than standard Xterra wheels, which Im pretty sure would stick out a good bit past the fenders...which I do not want. lol. 1" spacing is about all I would want.

Not trying to be difficult, just don't want to get that involved with this project..was hoping for an easy/quick fix....at the end of the day I can just run 285 75r16 like everybody else and get by.

I also didn't realize that other second Gen Xterra models came with a 17x7.5" wheel. http://www.allfactorywheels.com/pro...=product-ads&gclid=CObXjcG47bwCFY1QOgodjFYA4w and http://www.allfactorywheels.com/products/2009%2d2010-Nissan-Xterra-17"-62522.html not the most attractive things, they fit the bill for size requirements should I ultimately decide to go that route. If I decide to go with a beadlock wheel, the best bet would be to try and get some folks from thenewx onboard and have hutchinson make a 17x8 in the bolt pattern and offset we need. I cant imagine that would require much work on their end with a multi piece wheel.....

The education on the items discussed was informative. Thanks guys.

Edit:

and of course the first gen had a 17" 6x5.5 -__- 40mm offset. I found a set of 1" pattern adapters...so 8/2 = 4, 40mm = 1.57", = 2.43 + 1" for the spacer has me at 3.43. That might work....

 

[skibum315]

Yeah, the 17" wheels in your second link (the ones with 4 split spokes) wouldn't look too bad, especially darkened up a bit with some gray or black paint/Plasti-Dip. The other option you suggested of a thin adapter (1") and the older 1st Gen wheels is also a good one ... just be aware of your stock stud length if you go that way, you may need to shorten them to get the nuts fastening the adapter to the hub, to fit inside the new WMS of the adapter.

Here's a link for the 17" steel wheels I was talking about: http://www.wheelsandcaps.com/c-2285-factory-oem-steel-wheels_Nissan-Xterra-2008.aspx ... these could be used with a DIY beadlock kit (peruse Pirate4x4 for a good source ... there are a few out there), if you're dead set on going that way ... probably all in (including fab time from a shop you trust) for less than a set of Huchinson's. As cool as that would be, I'm not sure if there would be a *ton* of interest (at TNX) ... but I've been surprised before, and I do like some of their patterns (well, I like the size and specs of the Defender wheel; and the looks of the Land Cruiser and JK wheels.

 

[KiwiKurt]

Would I get rubbing issues with that 1st gen wheel and 1" spacer?

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[skibum315]

Hard to say ... what size tire? With 265x70r17s (equivalent to the stock Pro-4X 265x75r16 size), you'll probably be fine ... or have minimal rubbing at the back of the fender well, curable by the 'melt-mod' or minimal sheet metal massaging. That'd be fairly equivalent to running a wider, lower offset aftermarket rim with no adapter (like the popular Procomp 7089). If you want larger tires, too (like a 285x70r17), then you'll probably be looking at some trimming work to the rear of the fender well ... the top of the fender, in either case will probably be fine unless you start looking for more up-travel or seriously stuffing a tire.

Honestly, though, it's all conjecture unless you can find someone who's run the exact setup you're looking for ... I'd say find the setup you like, and do the best you can to prep your truck for it, then tweak as needed once it's installed.