Convince me

[CrispyCracker]

So i've been looking on this forum on and off for quite some time given that I'd like to start building an expedition vehicle of my own. My goal is not a fire-breathing off-road monster but rather a capable overland vehicle set up for camping (mainly with wife but sometimes with small daughter) and say, 70% highway travel and 30% semi-challenging trails.

I have an admittedly modest $4K budget for the vehicle purchase and I have a couple grand handy for after-purchase maintenance and fixes. I will add mods over time as budget allows, but I am of course looking for the most capable stock platform. I'm fairly handy (emphasis on a humble "fairly" given the resident wrenching talent) so I can handle maintenance and many mods but I won't be tearing apart an engine anytime soon.

I had settled on a first gen Xterra after extensive research. In fact, I aim to purchase one I found in Carolina next week after Hurricane Irma decides what she's going to do. However, positive comments related to Montero's that I have seen peppered throughout these forums are giving me pause. I did a quick search nearby and found a Sport XLS model with acceptable mileage and some nice modifications already made. And it got me to thinking.

So...setting aside any bias as best you can, please tell me which of the two vehicles you would purchase if you were in my shoes and why. I will assign most value to insight from folks who have experienced both platforms. Know that I appreciate the pending input.

 

[Michael Brown]

My list for your goals would go like this: Montero Sport < Nissan X-Terra = Gen 2/2.5 Montero < Gen 3 Montero XLS < Gen 3 Montero Limited/03+

The Sport is an entirely different vehicle from the full size Monteros. It is an import of the Challenger SUV, but named Montero Sport by the US marketing group. I do not have much information on them, but others will. They are decent trucks with body on frame build and solid rear axles. They can be found in 2wd and 4wd configurations. They are also smaller than the Montero/Pajero.

I would take the XTerra over the Sport. My younger brother has been driving his 07 Xterra since college. It is a more common vehicle and I like the Nissan 4.0l engine found in the later years. There is a known issue with the transmission cooler in the radiator, but it was a simple bypass and replace with an external cooler. These can be found in 2WD and 4WD. There was also a supercharged engine in the early years. These are about the same size as the Montero Sport/Challengers.

For $4k you might be able to find a decent Gen 2 or 3 Montero.
All Monteros are 4wd. Monteros can also fit 33" tires without needing a lift or cutting.
Gen 2/2.5 Monteros are well build body on frame with solid axles. 98-99 have a wider body. Finding an SR or 98-99 Winter package(orange sticker in driver footwell) will net you a factory rear air locker.
Gen 3 Monteros are monocoque bodies with a ladder frame running through the bottom. They are also independent front and rear suspension. This gives them very good road handling and comfort. The 01-02 XLS trims can be found under $5k easily, but will take some searching to find one that was treated well. These have a 4-speed and 4.9 gears. Biggest indicator is the actual transfer case shift lever. Limited trims run from 01-06 and will probably be out of your price range unless you find a fantastic deal. These came with a 5-speed transmission and 4.3 gears. The transfer shifter is electronic like most of the 4WD SUVs being made today. 01-02 models may have a rear LSD. 03+ has a traction control system which eliminates the need for an LSD, although one can be installed.

We can give you enay more information on the full-size Monteros if you wish.

 

[coffeegoat]

Well, this question gets rehashed pretty well about once a month, but I think you would be best served by really nailing down what your "needs" vs "wants" are. When I did my perusal a while back I "need"d the ability to carry more than 5 people, so the Xterra was out for me. I also "need"d to spend less than 10K on the vehicle after all the maintenance was up to date any required mods were completed which entirely removed the possibility of any Toyota/Lexus. That left me with not a lot of choices, and in the end I settled on a 2001 Gen III montero which I've been very happy with - purchase price <$4K.

With respect to the Xterra vs Montero Sport, I think they're both very solid choices, we have some folks that love their Sports, but I think it's clear that Xterra's are more popular in general. That means parts are easier to find, aftermarket is generally better, and you'll see more on the road. Either option in that price range will absolutely need a fair bit of maintenance, so having a good shop (or mechanical aptitude) will be important. That said, if there is a price differential between the sports and xterra's I'd tend to go towards the cheaper option on the basis that you'll need to spend an equivalent amount to get them up to date on all the maintenance and $500-1000 can go a long ways towards new timing belt, water pump, seals, shocks, tires, etc.

Perhaps some sport guys can provide some more specific details on the sports, but in general I've been very impressed with mitsu's ability to build a quality truck and coupled with north america's general indifference towards them means you can get a screaming deal on a very capable vehicle. In fact if you're willing to watch craigslist you could likely get a full size Monty, gen 2, 2.5, or even 3 depending on what you want.

 

[CrispyCracker]

I think you would be best served by really nailing down what your "needs" vs "wants" are. When I did my perusal a while back I "need"

Fair enough. I need a vehicle that will serve as a DD (short commute) but be capable of (at first) modest-distance trips to state parks/trails and (eventually) longer treks (a dream trip throughout California being in the cards). New vehicle must have good aftermarket support and must be able to transport four people on weekend trips and two (along with camping gear, clothing, food, misc. equipment) on longer/extended journeys. I love hitting it hard offroad, but I get those jollies via my son's lifted XJ. This new truck needs to be more refined and capable of zipping along at highway speeds between off-road destinations while also handling trails that are of modest-to-somewhat-challenging nature (no rock crawling, deep water or mud, etc). I am very focused on reliability (hence the short list featuring two highly regarded Japanese brands). I am not so much focused on gas mileage.

Specs for 2002 Xterra:
150k miles, one owner, supercharged 3.3. Everything works. Good shape cosmetically, cloth interior, decent tires, typical faded front grill area. I'm having a mechanic check it out but no maintenance records exist so I'd need to do timing belt and water pump right off the bat. Condition described as "very good." Can buy for $3800.



Specs for 2001 Montero:
150k miles, one owner, 4WD. Everything works. Good shape cosmetically, cloth interior, new 34 inch tires, newish shocks and struts. (Owner clearly has invested time in some mods -- have yet to speak with him). Condition described as "excellent." Can buy for $3600.



Hopefully this context helps.

On a tangential note, I own a 2003 WJ Overland that my wife drives. She adores the thing. It has been a tank and we love its interior and powerful 4.7 H.O. motor. Up until just now I had not considered it as an expedition option, but part of me wonders if I should buy the wife one of the two aforementioned rides (given their high marks for reliability) and somehow swindle her out of the old Grand Cherokee for this new role.

Thanks, Michael and coffeegoat, for the very helpful input. And sorry for the use of (so many) parentheses.

 

[Salonika]

I would also consider how much time you want to spend working on something, chasing parts, etc as the Montero isn't supported much anymore by dealers. Know that many parts are only available through the salvage network......and the dealers haven't lowered prices on what they have left. That might put you in a bind if you have to bring it to a shop to have someone else work on it. Mine is a third vehicle and I can afford to have it out of service for a week or whatever for maintenance, and I do almost everything myself. A lot of us on this forum have probably logged hundreds of hours fixing our trucks. I have found decent support from places like Rock Auto, but you never know when you may need something that isn't readily available anymore. Sometimes I forget my truck is 20 years old.

 

[KyleT]

Honestly the Nissan is about half the build strength of the Montero. And everyone I've ever known to have an xterra has transmission issues. Other than that they are well supported and perform decent. IMO a gen2/2.5 with rear diff lock is a great all around vehicle for what you are describing. That said I own two gen3's and they are great.


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[CrispyCracker]

Thanks, Salonika. I didn't realize how tough it is to source Mitsu parts. Xterra parts don't seem to be tough to come by so I made an assumption that the Monterros would be similar. That little tidbit does influence my thinking.

And I'm sure you're correct about folks in here spending hundreds of hours on their trucks. My passion is fishing so I've spent far more time working on skiffs (and casting off them) than I have on vehicles. I bought my son a 2001 XJ a year or so ago, however, and we've spent many hours together fixing issues and adding mods. Unlike the Monterro (evidently) we've had little trouble finding whatever part we need in local junkyards or online. Given that there a lot of Xterras produced it stands to reason that it'd be the wiser choice from that standpoint. But damn, that little XLS is pretty.

Kyle, the X has "half the build strength" of the Montero, in your opinion? Not doubting you since I don't know better, but out of curiosity: what facts support that statement?

 

[jrw1621]

If you look very closely to the picture of the Montero you will see a black Gen2 Montero in the background of the picture. You can only see the square rear door and the spare tire. Based on this, I would much more want to see the Montero because the seller likely knows what he's talking about ND can share the history of the vehicle.

The Nissan looks to be on a budget lot, used car dealer. He bought the Nissan at auction and knows absolutely nothing about the truck or its history.

 

[jrw1621]

In not sure where you are shopping other than you said Carolina but here is another.

Gen3 Limited so leather seat and 5 speed auto with center locking transfer case.
https://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/d/montero-fullsize-4x4/6258384140.html
A few more miles but good records. Priced cheaper for more options though more miles. Priced right and admits desperation to sell in the ad so could be a lot of room in the asking price.
Might actually sell for $2k.
Looks the same but is different.

 

[Swank Force One]

Skip the S/C XTerra. It's still underpowered, but now sucks even more gas and is harder to work on. They're neat on paper. Almost no advantage over a non-S/C one in reality.

 

[jrw1621]

The models pictured here so far are true Gen3 Montero/Pajero not the lesser Sport version.
You will find the Montero/Pajero to be physically larger than your wife's GC. The Gen3s comes with a third row seat. In Nissan terms, this Montero would have been the competitor to the Nissan Armada and the Montero Sport would have been the competitor to the Xterra.

The Gen3s only has a V6 which makes it a bit underpowered but don't mistake this lack of power for a lack of capability. It still has a 5,000 pound tow rating (just not quickly) The gearing and locking center provide the offroading capability.

 

[montypower]

The 3rd Gen Montero does not compare to the Xterra or Grand Cherokee! Not even remotely in the same league. That's like comparing a Fiat to a Maserati. I wouldn't want to off road the GC. It is a flexy unibody and everything falls apart. Try opening/closing your rear hatch with the suspension crossed up. Xterra has wimpy front differential. Housing is aluminum. Bigger tires = busted differential off road. Ground clearance is extremely poor. Look how much junk hangs down on them. Leaf springs?? Really?? And spring under at that. Can't carry a larger spare tire. It looks the part of "off road" but nothing of substance to mechanically to back it up.

3rd Gen Montero is more comparable to the Toyota Land Cruiser or Range Rover. Both in quality and design.

Stuff that makes the Montero better:
1. HUGE differentials. 9.5" Rear Ring Gear. 8.5" Front. What other 4x4 has this?? Land Cruiser doesn't. Xterra is like a child toy.
2. Rear Mounted Tire. Easily accessible. Can carry 33"+ tire without some stupid heavy bumper with swing out.
3. Factory Gearing option 4.90. Inexpensive upgrade. Can get complete 3rd members from junk yards. I bought both for $500.
4. Aftermarket : ARB, King, OME, Lovells, etc - You can buy more stuff than you'd want to spend. Skids, Winch Bumper, Suspension, Air Lockers, Snorkel, etc...
5. 5 Speed Transmission. Incredible. It is tuned exceptionally well. Always in the right gear. Can manually shift too. Plus, it locks the torque converter while going downhill to function like a manual to hold speed.
6. T case. Way more advanced than Toyota, Nissan. 2WD, AWD Mode (shift on fly), 4WD High Center Diff Lock, LOW Diff Lock
7. 03+ Best Traction Control of any vehicle. Works so seamlessly off road you'll have a hard time justifying lockers. It really is mid blowing.
8. Balance. You can lift a tire 4ft yet the chassis stays very balanced and in control. (search youtube for montero traction control). Near 50/50.
9. Motor. 3.8L is a sweet motor. Smooth. Quiet. Revs well. Mine loaded on trips would get 19-20 with careful driving. Heavily modified on 34" tires.
10. Space. Massive interior space. Low deck height. More cargo area than Land Cruiser. Lots of storage with 3rd row removed (folds into the floor).
11. Ground clearance. Completely flat underneath. I drove mine through the Rubicon.

I could go on and on...

Just had to respond as this thread is horrible. No idea how the Montero could be degraded to Xterra level. HAHA

 

[jeep-N-montero]

Having owned several GC's and our Montero, I can say the Montero (not the Sport)is hands down the better vehicle.

 

[jeep-N-montero]

The models pictured here so far are true Gen3 Montero/Pajero not the lesser Sport version.
You will find the Montero/Pajero to be physically larger than your wife's GC. The Gen3s comes with a third row seat. In Nissan terms, this Montero would have been the competitor to the Nissan Armada and the Montero Sport would have been the competitor to the Xterra.

The Gen3s only has a V6 which makes it a bit underpowered but don't mistake this lack of power for a lack of capability. It still has a 5,000 pound tow rating (just not quickly) The gearing and locking center provide the offroading capability.

To be honest I would never try to tow more than 2-3k with a Montero, but I also wouldn't with anything else in its class.

 

[jrw1621]

The internet tells me that an '02 Toyota Avalon weighs about 3,400 pounds and Uhaul's site says that an empty tow dolly is 750#. Total about 4,150#.

I towed this for about 1 hr on 2-lane roads of rural North Central Ohio (like super flat, corn field country) and speeds limits of 55 with me keeping to that or less. It towed well and never felt unsafe. I found it best to keep the trans in 4th gear because if in 5th, any request for more throttle at all would be met with a downshift to 4th anyway.