Custom Shocks

[y5e06]

All, I'm inquiring about going with custom shocks and if it is a worthwhile endeavor:

Vehicle
2000 Tahoe Z71 (OBS, 1990's style)
1" lift; ORD "zero rates" in back, mild torsion bar crank in front
285/75/16 TA's
Bilstein shocks (yellow ones. HDs? dont recall. they aren't worn out or blown)
everything else minimal

The wife and I use the Tahoe fairly regularly for loading up and going places. Some times they are pretty mundane, i.e. paved roads. Other times they are more expedition like, i.e. big bend, AZ & CO mountains, forest roads, Nat forests etc.

I really like my truck but one thing I hate the ride quality, especially on wash board roads and rough surface roads while maintaining a reasonable speed. The thing beats your kidneys and rattles your teeth. it feels and sounds as if it is shaking itself to death.
For a few miles it is tolerable, I suppose. but after 30-40 miles it is too much (Traversing the main roads of BigBend State Park was murderous). I've ridden in newer trucks and they handle and ride significantly better over similar surfaces. Yeah, i know this truck is an older design and has limited suspension travel. I'm sure going to some off the shelf, softer shocks could help a little too. However, I would really like to improve mine for those back country trips instead of upgrading to a newer and expensive rig or just marginal improvements on what i have.

No, i'm not trying to emulate a raptor's prowess or something where i can bomb around in the desert at 50mph+. I can improve the ride slightly by airing down and softening up those tires. However, this doesn't buy me near as much improvement as I would like. So, i'm considering some lower cost, simple, after market bypass shocks. Something that can take the beating, not over heat, and provide some relief to those fast bump/shaft speeds. Perhaps something with better valving than off the shelf shocks and digressive valving to address the fast shaft speeds. I'm familiar with the basics of shock technology as I've had some built for my road race car in the years past. But the 4x4 world of custom shocks is new to me.

One place to start is Offroad Shocks.
http://www.offroadshocks.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=ors
they offer smooth body 2, 2.5" remote resevior shocks from Fox and King for a reasonable price.

They don't list anything for the OBS specifically, but there are options, assuming they can get the valving right on the first try
http://www.offroadshocks.com/category/King-Smoothie-Remote-Resevioir-Shocks-2.html
http://www.offroadshocks.com/category/Fox-5-8-Shaft-Smooth-Body-Remote-Shocks.html
I'd gladly spend $1k on a set of shocks if they would drastically improve my truck and make it livable and fun for those looonnngg back country trips.

does anyone have experience with going this route? something custom and beyond an off the shelf solution?
I'm *assuming* i can get something to work and find the right extended & compressed lengths and proper valving.
Thoughts?


side note. Pics. played in the dirt this weekend. Jones'in for a trip, only time to get dirty for one afternoon.

 

[chet6.7]

"They don't list anything for the OBS specifically, but there are options, assuming they can get the valving right on the first try"

I don't have any experience,but I am contemplating going to high end shocks as well.
Since I have a Dodge diesel I spend much of my time on a forum specific to that truck.
From what I have read, the valving is important,and valving specific to the vehicle and the spring rate is what to look for.Springs,shocks,bumpstops may be the way to go.
For me it is Thuren or Carli.
Is there a shock tuner for your vehicle?

 

[4x4junkie]

I've had Fox 2.0 resi's on mine for almost two years now. No regrets on the shock purchase, though I think I may want to revalve the rears a bit stiffer (still smacks the bumpstops fairly easily in dips, could also be a combination of weight and maybe not having enough travel back there). Regardless, they were an immense improvement over the Rancho (junk) shocks I had before.

Washboard roads can be murderous no matter what the vehicle though. As you mentioned, airing down the tires is another very effective way to reduce the punishing oscillations washboard puts on the suspension.

 

[pappawheely]

The most important thing for a good ride is spring rate. Most people that complain about ride quality have a spring rate that is too high. Shocks are more about damping and control. Shocks only control the oscillations.

 

[Buliwyf]

+1.

You want stiffer shocks. Not softer. Either your springs are too stiff or you're bouncing off the bump stops. Or the truck has lousy suspension geometry.

Shocks too soft can have a very harsh ride. Letting the wheel bounce off the ground, and then the whole car crashes back to earth. You can also try softer, air'd down, MT tires.

 

[xbox73]

I can improve the ride slightly by airing down and softening up those tires. However, this doesn't buy me near as much improvement as I would like.

What speeds are you wanting to traverse washboard & rough surface roads? How heavily loaded are you? And what tire pressure psi are you airing down to?

Since you have a 75 series profile tire, airing down appropriately should provide good benefits. Depends on sidewall construction & load rating etc., but for forest roads on a heavier mid-full size vehicle like yours, and while maintaining some directional stability, you probably want to be in low to mid 20s tire pressure. For really rough offroading or rock crawling, you can do mid to high teens psi on regular non-beadlock wheels, but directional stability at speed obviously decreases. But in the 20s should be fine & make a big difference on fire roads.

So, i'm considering some lower cost, simple, after market bypass shocks.

Nitpick, but the remote reservoir shocks you linked to aren't bypass shocks.

From your road racing experience, you probably know that it's important for your shock valving to match your spring rate. Small variances for tuning are okay, but if one makes large/drastic changes to your shock valving without changing one's spring rates to match, that's unlikely to lead to an improved experience.

 

[Metcalf]

Unless your going to spend the time and money to tune the shocks ( and the rest of the suspension ) the fancy shocks are not the best investment. Your not going to guess correctly on the valving the 1st time, and generally nobody else is either.

If you are going to spend the time to test and tune potentially swapping valve stacks a dozen times along with some tuning of your spring rates ( if even possible ) then you can REALLY see some great improvements in suspension performance.

 

[y5e06]

Yeah, i wrote bypass but thinking remote resivior.
as far as traverse speeds guess it depends on the road... but typically 15-25mph. I am not looking to scream down these at baja speeds, but just make the trip more comfortable.
As for loads I would venture to say 600lbs in passengers and 2-400 in gear. typical 5-8 day trips to remote locals for rough camping. I believe last time i went on a long trip iI had the pressuress in the high 20's, recently while on much slower offroad stuff i've been setting them to 18, i havent ventured below that as i don't want to discover the limit and be forced to address a tire rolled off the bead. But for those settings I wasn't bombing along roads for long periods. I certainly could play around w/ the pressure a bit more on the washboards.

What speeds are you wanting to traverse washboard & rough surface roads? How heavily loaded are you? And what tire pressure psi are you airing down to?

Since you have a 75 series profile tire, airing down appropriately should provide good benefits. Depends on sidewall construction & load rating etc., but for forest roads on a heavier mid-full size vehicle like yours, and while maintaining some directional stability, you probably want to be in low to mid 20s tire pressure. For really rough offroading or rock crawling, you can do mid to high teens psi on regular non-beadlock wheels, but directional stability at speed obviously decreases. But in the 20s should be fine & make a big difference on fire roads.



Nitpick, but the remote reservoir shocks you linked to aren't bypass shocks.

From your road racing experience, you probably know that it's important for your shock valving to match your spring rate. Small variances for tuning are okay, but if one makes large/drastic changes to your shock valving without changing one's spring rates to match, that's unlikely to lead to an improved experience.

yes, of course. but whose to say my current off the shelf shocks match my spring rates & heavy offroad tires (unsprung) well? I don't plan on screwing around w/ turning the valve pack myself. The one thing about these fox/king shocks is they all offer remote resivior shocks for the '07 and newer stuff, so there is a demand for those applications and they prob have the tuning for those down. I'd have to give them a call and get a feel if they have baseline and history on any OBS setups. I'm not looking to forge new territory. I'm not putting a lift kit on this truck and i certainly won't be changing the springs/torsion bars out.

 

[superbuickguy]

you lost me at 1" torsion bar lift and ride quality. If you need more clearance, the first step is to step back to stock ride height or a lift kit that keeps the stock-ride settings. But twisting the bar to get more lift you did 2 things that are anti-good-ride. 1) you increased the spring rate - meaning it takes more load to moving the spring down, and 2) you're near the limits of downward travel on your suspension. This is really important since the suspension needs as much down travel as it does up travel. FYI, most race trucks/buggies have 2/3 of the total suspension travel in the downward direction...

Your Bilstein shocks really are the best shock out there for your truck.

Some cheap fixes would be a nut on top of the shock to allow the shock to travel further down

that 1/2" of washers netted me 1" more of travel
add a rear add-a-leaf so that your rear spring rates are similar to the front
or get the Bilstein shocks for 2.5" lift for your truck (front shocks only)

the shocks really limit down travel, thus really limit the space in which the shock can control the movement of the truck - by getting longer shocks, you'll allow the suspension to drop then the shock to control it's upward travel.

and whatever you do - avoid rancho, yes, those are on my H3, but I absolutely hate them because they have 2.5" of travel vs. 4" for stock and 5" for bilstein lift shocks.... though, the nut did make an amazing difference in ride quality.

 

[chilliwak]

I say go with some premium Bilsteins. They always seem to work well. Just get the hardest valving and it seems to work great for off road conditions..