Dead winch help

[double moo]

My son brought back my Trooper after this weekend claiming that the winch wouldn't work. They had used it to get unstuck and spooled the line back in - then once home tried to unspool the line and re-seat it like they should have immediately after the use.

So I go out and sure enough there is nothing happening. I popped the hood and found an ugly mess of the battery. It looks as though the battery got loose and shifted just enough to contact the side termminal where the winch was connected... yes I said was.. to the battery hold down rod. This appears to have caused it to arc weld the terminal to the rod, actually cutting through the rod, and continue arc'ing until it melted the terminal lead out of the battery.

(The hold down rod shown was swapped from the other side)

The other possibility is that the terminal overheated from the winch use and melted itself out - contacting the rod before faling free. I am assumming all this because I have'nt another explanation nor the experience to tell otherwise. (the winch worked to spool in the cable after the recovery... two days later no workey)

In addition to this... I tried hooking the winch up to the useable terminals on the battery and it would just click, like the solenoid isn't throwing... at least it clicked several times until it started smoking and some heated liquid dripped out - which is when we noticed the smoke and disconnedted everything!!!

Cool thing is that the battery still holds a charge and starts the truck like nothing happened! I got out the voltage tester and confirmed that the battery is holding 12.2 volts static, with 13.6 showing when running. I'm hoping that this indicates that the alternator is OK -It should read about 14 when charging but it has read a little low since it was installed a year ago.

So... Am I on the right track? what else should I be looking for? And can a smoking/leaking winch be repaired or do I start looking for another? Any suggestions are really appreciated.

Moo

 

[grillmasterp]

FYI-
Optima specifically advises against using the side posts for
high amp applications such as winching

Cut & Pasted from an old post of mine:

From Optima's Website- Apparently The side terminals are not as beefy as the top posts to handle the loads of winching
http://www.optimabatteries.com/product_support/faqs/tips/q02.php

Battery installation tips

* Ensure that the battery is properly secured in the vehicle or equipment to prevent movement or vibration wear. Do not over tighten the hold down bracket, this can damage the plastic case.
* Connect high amperage accessories such as a winch to the top terminals only. Do NOT use the side terminals.
* Replace any cables and connectors that have corrosion, rust, or other damage.
* Do not install batteries in a non-ventilated or sealed compartment.
* Do not lift or handle the batteries by the terminals.
* Do not over tighten terminal bolts, the following values are recommended:SAE automotive terminal:50-70 inch-lb.Side terminal (3/8" nut):70 inch-lb.Threaded stud terminal:120-180 inch-lb.

 

[double moo]

I never saw that before... I guess now we can see the results of that missunderstanding!!!

Note to self: Read directions before setting up next battery.

Any ideas on the winch?

 

[alosix]

Any ideas on the winch?

Not to sound like a complete smart ***** (which I am, but that's besides the point). Is power hooked up to the winch again?

To me, I'd think that terminal problem would be the winch problem, unless it wouldn't freespool out or something.

It is sad with the optimas though. Those side posts seem so useful, but I've yet to find a practicle use for them. Anything I'd want tied right to the battery either puts too much in (charging) to takes too much out (starting/winching).

Jason

 

[proto]

Hiya! When your push the switch on the winch remote, does the solenoid click just once or repeatedly?

If it clicks just once every time you punch the switch then, from your description, it sounds like you have a short. It could be in the high-current wiring, but it could also be simply that the winch is jammed. (If the electric motor's armature is locked in one position, it acts pretty much like a dead short, draws a lot of current, makes smoke, starts fires, melts battery terminals, etc.)

Your winch looks like it's tucked out of the way behind the bumper. That makes it more prone to jamming if the cable gets kinked, overwound, or if it manages to drag a stick or something in past the fairlead. That's the easy thing to check: see if it's possible to freespool the cable out by hand.

If a jam is not the problem, then visually inspect all the high-current wiring and see if you can spot a short. (Just start at the positive terminal of the battery and follow it back through the solenoid pack to the winch motor.)

If that all looks fine, then the motor or gear-reduction is stuck somehow -- you might have to unmount the winch and take it apart.

If it's the other case where you push the switch and get repeating clicks, then the winch isn't getting enough current. (It's getting enough to operate the electromagnet in the solenoid, but when it tries to run the motor, that sucks up all the current and the solenoid drops out, disconnecting the motor. With the motor disconnected, there's enough current to operate the solenoid. . . you get the idea.)

Anyway, in that case, look for a high-current wire broken, a bad solenoid, or a loose contact.

You're in for gaining some experience. Sorry.

EDIT: I know I don't have to say this: even though winch electronics are stupid-simple, when they go wrong, people lose fingers. Sometimes just tapping a solenoid will cause it to close for an instant, run the motor, spin the drum, and draw in cable. This kind of trouble shooting is not particularly dangerous, but plan your moves and don't put your body parts at risk. (Ask me some time about the guy who can't wear a wedding ring.)

 

[MuddyOval]

You may want to consider swapping the truck's original battery cables to the side terminals. Side terminals are more than adequate for starting/running a truck. There are adapters to convert side posts to use the top-post terminals that came on the truck originally. Then the winch can have the top posts all to itself.
I'm surprised the battery still holds a charge- Optimas go dead prematurely all the time even without the abuse, it seems.

 

[double moo]

Thanks for the suggestions Proto.

The drum turns free when in neutral - I had to spool out the cable and disconnect it from the winch spool as it would not roll in. When we first hooked the winch back to the battery top posts it seemed fine - then I realized it was running in and out but was in neutral. When I put it in gear it would lock up and click once per press. If it was a short it probably shouldn't have done that much. I'll start looking for shorts when I get home tonight as that seems to be the easiest starting point.

Moo

 

[proto]

AH! Sounds like a mechanical problem in the gear-reduction. The drum and motor both move freely in neutral. When engaged, it's locked up, the motor can't spin and draws a ton of current. Sorry, that's going to take some work to fix. (Still under warranty?)

Good luck.

 

[Desert Dan]

If the winch has "ceramic magnets" it may have been cooked beyond repair.

 

[double moo]

Yes the winch is under warranty, but would this qualify as a warranty issue?

 

[MuddyOval]

Bypass the solenoid box and connect the motor to a battery and that'll tell you if the motor is kablooey. Be ready to disconnect quickly if there's a dead short. :Wow1:

 

[proto]

. . . the winch is under warranty, but would this qualify as a warranty issue?

I would think so. It sounds like it's basically an internal problem. They will want to know that the winch was mounted properly and not abused. Other than that, if it can't handle normal use it's defective. (Obviously, give them a call and see how they want to handle it before taking things apart.) A swap-out would make a nice simple fix. I hope it works out for you!

 

[I Leak Oil]

OK, so no one else has asked yet...what brand????

 

[double moo]

T-max EW9000 Outback.

I pulled the cover and checked the solenoid. Nothing burned, charred, or marked at all. The wiring too and from the battery look fine - no appearant short. So I'm guessing it's in the motor housing... as that is where the oil leaked from.

 

[Riflman]

Same thing happened to me, then I read about Optimas here:

http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-corner/project-cj7/project-cj7-warn-winch-install.htm

If you look about 2/3 of the way down the page in big bold text is says:

Note: If you have an Optima battery or any battery with side terminals (flush on the side and used with a small bolt or connection), it's recommended that a winch is NOT connected to these smaller terminals. In most cases they can not handle the full amperage draw of a winch. Use of these small terminals can damage your battery and potentially cause a fire.


And found out that in Optima batteries, there are thin wires running from the top posts to the side terminals under the case, and that the side terminals are only supposed to be used for low current accessories.

There are cases where people's Optima batteries have completely melted while winching or actually caught on fire!