Decisions, Decisions - Full Size V8 Pickup vs First Gen 4Runner

[cacahootie]

Hello Expedition Portal! This is my first post here, and I hope it's compelling. I am currently in the midst of planning for a 3 month US/Mexico Border --> Seattle --> Ketchikan via Alaska Maritime --> Fairbanks --> Inuvik --> Kluane --> Canadian Rockies --> Home (Phoenix, AZ) for July-September of next year. I also have longer term (3 years from now) plans for Phoenix --> Patagonia and back... and even longer term Central Asia/Siberia.

A bit about my "style" before getting to the tech. I'm a (hobbyist) landscape photographer and avid outdoorsman. I have done plenty of camping/backpacking working from a Honda Civic and VW Golf; as well as 4 wheeling in a 2000 Nissan Frontier 4x4, 89 Blazer and my current 2004 F-150, and about 6000 miles on a KLR-650 dual sport motorcycle. I've only ever gotten stuck once (through my own stupidity), but have been stranded 3 times (once on dry rotted tires shredding, once burning out a clutch on my MC and once tearing out the oil pan on my VW golf). My goal for the past few years has been "marking off the map" in Arizona. Well... I've run out of places to go.

I currently own (and owe $12k on) a 2004 F-150 4x4, SuperCrew Short Bed w/ the 5.4. It now has 73k miles, I have put 43K of those on in the past nearly 2 years. It is presently stock, with the exception of a Die Hard Platinum Battery, Camper Shell and stereo. It has served me well thus far, I've taken it to the San Juan Mountains 4 times, done Imogene, Engineer, Cinnamon passes, some winter/snow wheeling; done the Sierra Nevadas from Yosemite to Kings Canyon, and have done much within Arizona. I've been stuck in it once through my own sheer stupidity (not a result of trail conditions). I currently run BFG Rugged Terrain 265/70/17s. I typically get 15mpg, up to about 17mpg in best-case scenario. I hope that a php tuner can get me to 16/19...

I love the F-150 for the power, handling, reliability and practicality. I hate the size and fuel efficiency (or lack thereof).

I evaluated purchasing a new/lightly used Xterra or FJ with the Pro-4x or Off-Road package, but decided not to. The front differential issues on the Xterra scared me away, and the FJ's lack of ventilation pisses me off (only 2 opening windows, no moon roof, no vent windows). So, despite the fact that I'd rather have a standard transmission and better fuel economy, I decided to stay with the F-150.

Then it occurred to me that a gen 1 4runner meets many of my requirements: fuel efficient, reliable, go-anywhere, solid aftermarket, open air (i'd run a soft top), long enough to sleep inside. However, I started adding up the mods/upgrades I'd make and it got to $20k pretty quickly. Now, granted, that truck would probably last forever... but the 22RE, while reliable, is pitifully underpowered compared to what I am currently used to. In order to make it worthwhile, I'd hope for a typical 25mpg fuel efficiency...

So, the crux of the question is: given what I've expressed as my goals and thought process, which would be a more capable overland/expedition rig:

F-150, with Total Chaos UCA & Fox Shocks, 12K LB receiver mount winch w/ custom front receiver to handle it, dual batteries, 4.88/TrueTrac front and rear, plus PHP tuner on BFG AT 315/70/17

OR

IFS 4runner, AllPro SAS, 22REperformance stage 2.5, Diamond Front Axle Housing w/ longfields and Trail Gear knuckles, Marlin Complete V6 3rd members 5.29/ZipLocker (like ARB) front and rear, Marlin Crawler Box, Marlin Rebuilt W-56, dual batts, softtopper on BFG AT 33x10.5x15

Opinions?

Edit: Forgot to mention, I mostly travel solo, and about 70% of the time w/ my Australian Cattle Dog named Gypsy.

 

[uriedog]

If it were me I would go 4runner

 

[Vang530]

I'm a toyota guy so i choose the toyota. 22re's are sooooo easy and simple to work on with tons of room, cheap parts including tons found in junkyards, etc.
I live near 22reperformance aka putney's custom machine in chico,ca and almost every toyota truck in town has their engine in them.

 

[rxinhed]

Opinions?

I'm a Mitsubishi and Dodge guy on average, but have you considered a medium between the old 4Runner and the newer F150 that you've been ripped off for? (The $12K balance.)

How about a Total Chaos, FabTech, or Dixon Bros. equipped Ranger extended cab with a small service body and said tires mods for your 4Runner idea? Space for Gypsy, camping gear, more power and creature comforts?

??

 

[redthies]

I would go 4runner too, but would keep the hard top on. There is lots of ventilation with the rear windows in the hard top, and you could put a sunroof in the front too. Use the money from the soft top to buy ARB lockers, not something "like" ARB. For the type of trips you are describing, the 22RE moderately built with a 5 speed would be plenty of power. You just have to get used to driving that way.

 

[Wallache]

If it were me, I would:
1 Pay off the Ford
2 Add a winch, dual batteries, and recovery gear, to reduce the chances of getting stranded in BFE Alaska
3 Build a sleeping platform in the bed
4 Use the remainder of the $20k to finance your trips to Alaska and Patagonia

 

[Buliwyf]

I'd stick with your F150. Pay it off and make small minor mods. Nothing big or expensive, which usually hurt as much as they help. Everthing is a trade off.

The smaller SUV's get the same mileage, they get hurt bad by carrying all that extra expo tool weight. 15-17 is all you can ever really hope for. The gen1 4runners are kinda small for me and my uses. If you want to go small, I'd skip the SUV's and take a long hard look at the Jeep JK's.

I'd just mod the F150 enough to fit 285/75 r17 tires are somewhere in that 33" range, 315's might be overkill. Don't fear the gear. 4.30 rules with modular engines and 33" tires. 4.56 for 35", 4.88 for less highway or even bigger tires. The 4.88 and 315's will be a nice combo with the 5.4L. Forget about the rear Truetrac, not a bad idea in the front. F150's are too big, Truetrac performance drops off a bit with bigger trucks. Put a Detroit Softlocker and Superior axle shafts in the rear.

In my neck of the woods a decent prepped F150 will slaughter a 4runner offroad (at least the ones I've wheeled with). But I do things a bit differently. I can't use a F150, I need a long bed for bikes and gear.

 

[Afroja86]

I also like 4runner.

 

[shmabs]

Why the SAS for your intended travel? I would think with all the highway and washboard dirt road you would encounter IFS would be more comfortable and durable enough, especially with 33x10.5s.

A good friend of mine just put the blazedland kit on his 92 toyota pickup, with bilstein shocks, OME torsions, and 4.88's That truck rode amazing when it was done, and had plenty of travel to boot. I drove it for a short while and found the gearing adequate. On his cross country trip though, he said more gear would have been better. I can imagine that with a loaded 4runner, you might be wishing for more gear or motor, however you will have a fresh motor so you would be in better shape there.

Your target number of 25 mpg might be a bit optimistic, but would most likely vary on your driving. After owning a few small displacement (under 3 liters) 4 cylinders, i have come to find that MPG drops fast when you start tacking on weight and rolling resistance, even with proper gearing. A 4runner with an sas, and even modest 33's is going to be a brick in the wind.

As for which one i would choose? Whichever one gets you out of debt.

Mike

 

[reece146]

Stick with the Ford.

 

[jeff parker]

I have an 87 4Runner. I rebuilt the engine two years ago and added a mild cam. It's still slow as hell with 30's and stock gearing. The only way I can get 20mpg is if I keep the speed below 65mph. At 70mph I get 16-17 mpg unless I have a tailwind to bump me to 18mpg. Driving to Wyoming this spring into a strong headwind I could not go over 55mph and returned 13mpg. I got passed by a pickup towing a huge boat.

For Latin America, where the speeds are lower and the city streets very narrow, the Runner would be good. For U.S. and Canada it pretty much sucks on the long, fast highways.

 

[locrwln]

Stick with the Ford.

I agree. I had a 1st gen 4runner. Key word being had. I would never own another one. Too slow and you can forget 25mpg unless you are doing 45mph on level ground. I am only 5'9"/160lbs and hated driving it any distance, very uncomfortable and mine was an SR5 with multi-adjustable seats. $20g into a $2500.00 vehicle doesn't make much sense to me.

Pay off your Ford and keep driving it. It will easily go over 200k miles.

Jack

 

[reece146]

Exactly... Never confuse marque specific enthusiast blather with the reality of owning an old vehicle.

 

[BCHauler]

Exactly... Never confuse marque specific enthusiast blather with the reality of owning an old vehicle.

Brilliant!

 

[cacahootie]

Thanks

Thanks everyone for the comments! Sorry I went AWOL. Traveling as usual.

I think y'all have clarified for me the correct path. Toyotas are my second love, behind old Chevys (being an Arizona guy with rural connections). I know I will own a Toyo some day, and likely sooner rather than later.

But those of you who recommended paying off the Ford, and doing some of the upgrades I had planned I think are right. It's a known quantity for now, and since my immediate plans take me through pickup truck country, I know I'll get her everywhere I need to... especially with the upgrades people have mentioned and I have planned.

My biggest issue with the F-150 so far hasn't been technical, but more mental. Because it's so big, I'm more concerned about getting stuck when things get really dicey. And since I don't presently have a winch, and I often travel alone, that's too nerve wracking. The flip-side, however, is that I drive much more carefully and conservatively, which is better anyways. I don't want to be smashing my stuff up more than necessary anymore.

My second biggest beef is the fuel efficiency. When I drive like a madman (which I sometimes like to do), I get 11-12 mpg over a tank. However, I've started to find the zen in driving slowly. I just did San Diego-Phoenix at 65-70MPH and NO FAST PASSING and got just shy of 17 mpg. It was a blast, I just listened to my Grateful Dead and Bob Marley and didn't give a crap. Didn't have to worry about cops b/c I wasn't even close to speeding. I looked like an old man (no offense to anyone)! Even at 75mph from Phoenix to Durango or Cortez, I will often get 15-16. I'd have to drive a whole hell of a lot of miles to make 5-8 more mpg pay off. And... 150ish HP max... not on the interstate.

I have a buyer for my KLR-650 that should come through on Saturday, and then intend to go the CAI, tuner, winch, battery, camper route, and use the money I save not buying a new money pit on a Canon 70-200mm f/4 IS, which I will get a ton more use out of than bigger tires or a suspension lift. My brother and I are also getting ready to fab up some skid plates. I've smashed up the bottom of my truck a bit, so I'd like to add some extra steel. When the tax man hands out my dole, I'll tackle the diffs, and that'll be the end of the mods. I think I'll stick to a 33" tire... I really only need another inch.

The sad truth I learn as I get older is that if what you already have does most everything you want, it's better to keep it and fix the small things than jump off into something new because "I want it".

When I begin to prepare for South America, my F-150 will be in the 200k range, and will be done. Then I can sell it for decent money and make the move to a 4Runner. Perhaps then some of the newer ones will be in my price range...

And I like having 300hp when I wanna use it.