Diesel Euro 5 Engine
- Thread starter hl3g
- Start date
I am afraid I have bad news for you. Presently I am in the process of specifying and buying an expedition camper for trips to South America and Africa. My preferred option was a 4x4 Mercedes Sprinter. I asked Mercedes the same question you asked (fortunately before buying the truck). Mercedes advised me, that only diesel with an extremely low sulphur content may be used for Euro 5 engins. The sulphur would, as they put it "cause irreversible damage to the emission control equipment". They mentioned in particular the diesel particulate filter who would be clogged by the residues of sulphur. Ever efficient Mercedes included a list of the sulphur content of the diesel sold in various countries. Basically all countries outside Europe, North America, Australia and South Africa sold diesel with a sulphur content way higher than the limit specified by Mercedes ( less than 10 ppm ).
I checked this statement with a senior excecutive of the fleet management of the German army who confirmed that they have to take out the diesel particulate filter and various sensors for service in e.g. Afganistan. That means of course that the electronics and the engine management software have to be modified.
I will therefore buy a truck without particulate filter.
SG
I checked this statement with a senior excecutive of the fleet management of the German army who confirmed that they have to take out the diesel particulate filter and various sensors for service in e.g. Afganistan. That means of course that the electronics and the engine management software have to be modified.
I will therefore buy a truck without particulate filter.
SG
LukeH
Adventurer
Well done SG1.
Good information, there's more:
AFAIK the sprinter and other cars just use pump diesel, which as you have mentioned will have sulphur issues.
ALL the HGV trucks have achieved Euro5 emissions with the aid of an additive, called ADblue. They're equipped with separate tanks and it's mixed in by the electronics, according what the exhaust sensor says.
Apparently it's urea based.
I don't know how essential it is to running an engine, but I bet you won't find the stuff outside Europe.
So second hand trucks suddenly become more attractive; not to mention the amount of diesel you could buy with the money saved by buying a S/H truck.
How about a bit of interactivity from HL3G; more about the project, family? route? starting country? etc. His truck choice thread has filled out nicely without but I don't see him conversing...
Happy trails
Luke
Good information, there's more:
AFAIK the sprinter and other cars just use pump diesel, which as you have mentioned will have sulphur issues.
ALL the HGV trucks have achieved Euro5 emissions with the aid of an additive, called ADblue. They're equipped with separate tanks and it's mixed in by the electronics, according what the exhaust sensor says.
Apparently it's urea based.
I don't know how essential it is to running an engine, but I bet you won't find the stuff outside Europe.
So second hand trucks suddenly become more attractive; not to mention the amount of diesel you could buy with the money saved by buying a S/H truck.
How about a bit of interactivity from HL3G; more about the project, family? route? starting country? etc. His truck choice thread has filled out nicely without but I don't see him conversing...
Happy trails
Luke
LukeH
Adventurer
fuoristrada camper
Observer
We've been traveling with our Euro 4 truck's in North Afrika ( Morocco , Tunisia ,Libya ) and eastern Europe and also with Euro 4 CRD Wrangler Jeep's. Due to the higher amount of sulfur the exhaust tip became green , but no dammage to the DPF filters and sensors. As the DPF get's realy hot it burns the sulfur.
The most important is good filtration to avoid water in the common rail.
Ad blue is another problem , in my former Iveco or my friends Mog U400, we had some extra jerry cans with ad blue to cover the trip , but in Euro 4 the truck still runs without ad blue , it only give's an error code on the dashboard.
End this year with Euro 5 , the truck has to shut down engine power once started without ad blue ( but while running it's not allowed due to safety).
Renault Truck's did two expeditions with Euro 4 Kerax trucks , they did the Silk road , and last year they did Cape to Cape Overland. They had also extra ad blue tanks in the truck and filled up in Ankara ( turkey ) to cover the whole African trip with the ad blue they stocked.
And yes it's a real issue about witch you can discuss for hours , but if we Europeans want to buy a NEW truck , get it on the road legally here in Europe , we have no choice.( same if we want to buy a new 4X4 )
And honestly over the years that we are travelling ,we've seen the quality of the gas station getting better year by year , and also the quality of the cars in those country's.
And with the big issue about global warming I think it will even go faster than most off us think
The most important is good filtration to avoid water in the common rail.
Ad blue is another problem , in my former Iveco or my friends Mog U400, we had some extra jerry cans with ad blue to cover the trip , but in Euro 4 the truck still runs without ad blue , it only give's an error code on the dashboard.
End this year with Euro 5 , the truck has to shut down engine power once started without ad blue ( but while running it's not allowed due to safety).
Renault Truck's did two expeditions with Euro 4 Kerax trucks , they did the Silk road , and last year they did Cape to Cape Overland. They had also extra ad blue tanks in the truck and filled up in Ankara ( turkey ) to cover the whole African trip with the ad blue they stocked.
And yes it's a real issue about witch you can discuss for hours , but if we Europeans want to buy a NEW truck , get it on the road legally here in Europe , we have no choice.( same if we want to buy a new 4X4 )
And honestly over the years that we are travelling ,we've seen the quality of the gas station getting better year by year , and also the quality of the cars in those country's.
And with the big issue about global warming I think it will even go faster than most off us think
charlieaarons
Explorer
Sorry to get OT into politics:
Emission controls have nothing to do with global warming, i.e. CO2 emissions. They only pertain to NOx and PM emissions.
EPA homologated engines that meet 2002 and 2007 emissions are notorious for burning MORE fuel, i.e. emitting MORE CO2. With EGR and DPF "burn-offs". At least Euro 4 and 5 trucks are tuned for maximum economy. Many do not have EGR or DPFs, just SCR/"red-cat", using high NOx concentrations before the SCR converter to burn soot in an "oxi-cat".
Charlie
fuoristrada camper
Observer
@ CHARLIE , technicaly you are 100% right , but what I mean is that with smog issues like we have in some country's ( ex China) , and the general spirit you'l find all over the world due to global warming , smog etc.... more and more country's will ask for clean cars. And in terms of the actual crisis car manufacturers will prefer to build one type of car they can sell all over the world...so the rest has to be adapted also....
Another example : years ago when they started lead free petrol it was hard to find in south Europe ( Spain etc ) , and you couldn't find it at all in Africa , now in country's like Libya you can only find unleaded petrol , so things change ....luckely
And I know it's of topic but here in Europe it's getting a nightmare driving a big engine , we are taxed on CO2 emissions now ( al above 150gr/Km CO2 is pointed by finger and severly taxed , they even think to forbitt SUV in the city's , and in some German city's you need a green sticker on the car to get in the center)
So let's travel and enjoy our trucks as long as we can :smiley_drive:
Greets
Another example : years ago when they started lead free petrol it was hard to find in south Europe ( Spain etc ) , and you couldn't find it at all in Africa , now in country's like Libya you can only find unleaded petrol , so things change ....luckely
And I know it's of topic but here in Europe it's getting a nightmare driving a big engine , we are taxed on CO2 emissions now ( al above 150gr/Km CO2 is pointed by finger and severly taxed , they even think to forbitt SUV in the city's , and in some German city's you need a green sticker on the car to get in the center)
So let's travel and enjoy our trucks as long as we can :smiley_drive:
Greets
charlieaarons
Explorer
Yes, I see the point.
And you're right about AdBlue.
AdBlue consumption is supposed to be 1-2% of fuel; in our X5 it's 1.5%
That means for a 50000km overland trip one need only carry 750 km fuel equivalent of AdBlue. In a vehicle 12L/100km that's 90L. If the tank holds 10L, then it's 4 jerrycans. It's workable.
The US EPA is following the lead of the notorious CARB (Calif. Air Resources Board). Photochemical smog caused by NOx is a problem in Calif with its' sunny dry climate. So they cranked down on NOx levels beyond what is thermodynamically/chemically effiicient. EPA follows their lead. So in N. America we ended up with fuel wasting EGR and DPFs, thinking cheap fuel was going to be handed to us on a silver platter.
The EU chose a more reasonable NOx/PM limit ratio, allowing fuel efficient solutions.
Charlie
And you're right about AdBlue.
AdBlue consumption is supposed to be 1-2% of fuel; in our X5 it's 1.5%
That means for a 50000km overland trip one need only carry 750 km fuel equivalent of AdBlue. In a vehicle 12L/100km that's 90L. If the tank holds 10L, then it's 4 jerrycans. It's workable.
The US EPA is following the lead of the notorious CARB (Calif. Air Resources Board). Photochemical smog caused by NOx is a problem in Calif with its' sunny dry climate. So they cranked down on NOx levels beyond what is thermodynamically/chemically effiicient. EPA follows their lead. So in N. America we ended up with fuel wasting EGR and DPFs, thinking cheap fuel was going to be handed to us on a silver platter.
The EU chose a more reasonable NOx/PM limit ratio, allowing fuel efficient solutions.
Charlie
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dzzz
™
yes!
It looks like fuel prices will be good this year. Better to drive while we can.
Thanks for the link to the used Sprinter.
I have bought a chassis in the meantime. It is a Ford Transit awd chassis. This year they are still sold without any particulate filter or ad blue with Euro 4. Transits are sold in many markets outside Europe and the two I owned before where basic and definitely not "sexy" but reliable. I would have preferred a Sprinter but if in todays market Mercedes tells me not to buy their product I did not dare to run the risk to find out that they were right.
Once the truck has been delivered (hopefully in May or June) I can start with the cabin and other modifications.
SG
I have bought a chassis in the meantime. It is a Ford Transit awd chassis. This year they are still sold without any particulate filter or ad blue with Euro 4. Transits are sold in many markets outside Europe and the two I owned before where basic and definitely not "sexy" but reliable. I would have preferred a Sprinter but if in todays market Mercedes tells me not to buy their product I did not dare to run the risk to find out that they were right.
Once the truck has been delivered (hopefully in May or June) I can start with the cabin and other modifications.
SG
The Euro IV engines are acceptable (but less that Euro III) - at least modifications to handle "rest of the world" diesel fuel are possible, if you find an expert or the specific engine. Euro V will be much harder: Piezo injectors, mapping software for EGR & particle filters...
In theory, fire-brigades etc. are entitled to get an "ad-blue-overrride-switch" to avoid performance limitations if running out of ad-blue
Regards, Peter
In theory, fire-brigades etc. are entitled to get an "ad-blue-overrride-switch" to avoid performance limitations if running out of ad-blue
Regards, Peter