Do's and Don'ts Towing Off Road

[Martyn]

The Oz Kimberly Kampers have hydraulic systems but the US King Kamper versions have Dexter axles with electric brakes, coupled with a cable operated surge brake (off the piston in the Treg hitch). If you didn't attach the electric brakes, you would still have the mechanicaly actuated surge brakes. You also use the cable actuated mechanical brake as the parking brake.

I knew all this, but still let that knowledge hide away while I was freaking out trying to back up a lose hill in the middle of nowhere.

That's an interesting hybrid. The set up you have is usually for a mechanical handbrake actuated by cables. Aaron Whitaker who originally brought the KK's into the USA had recommended they change to an e brake system. I would have thought they would have used a cable handbrake rather than adapting their hydraulic braking system. Seems like a very expensive way to go, and not ideal for reversing as you found out!

My experience with mechanical override brakes is that they are fitted with cams inside the brake drums that fold inwards when the wheels rotate 1/4 turn backwards. This disengages the brakes and allows you to reverse.

I'd seriously consider doing away with the hydraulic portion of the system and modify it for cable handbrake use only.

 

[Tucson T4R]

That's an interesting hybrid. The set up you have is usually for a mechanical handbrake actuated by cables. Aaron Whitaker who originally brought the KK's into the USA had recommended they change to an e brake system. I would have thought they would have used a cable handbrake rather than adapting their hydraulic braking system. Seems like a very expensive way to go, and not ideal for reversing as you found out!

My experience with mechanical override brakes is that they are fitted with cams inside the brake drums that fold inwards when the wheels rotate 1/4 turn backwards. This disengages the brakes and allows you to reverse.

I'd seriously consider doing away with the hydraulic portion of the system and modify it for cable handbrake use only.

I'll try to post up a picture of the set up later today. There is no hydraulic system at all in this set up. The cable actuated parking brake is also used as the surge brake. The slide cylinder in the treg hitch that probably actuated the hydraulic system in OZ, now only pushes on a mechanical lever that pulls the parking brake cables, acting as a surge brake.

There is a metal stop that can be pivoted into place around the slide cylinder to disable the surge brakes when backing up.

This system is separate from the Dexter electric brakes installed on each wheel.

 

[Tucson T4R]

I'll try to post up a picture of the set up later today. There is no hydraulic system at all in this set up. The cable actuated parking brake is also used as the surge brake. The slide cylinder in the treg hitch that probably actuated the hydraulic system in OZ, now only pushes on a mechanical lever that pulls the parking brake cables, acting as a surge brake.

There is a metal stop that can be pivoted into place around the slide cylinder to disable the surge brakes when backing up.

This system is separate from the Dexter electric brakes installed on each wheel.

Here are a few pictures of the system:

Parking brake on:

Parking brake disabled for towing with surge enabled:

Surge disable lever open:

Underneath shot:

Let me know if that makes sense now.

 

[Martyn]

Here are a few pictures of the system:

Parking brake on:

Parking brake disabled for towing with surge enabled:

Surge disable lever open:

Underneath shot:

Let me know if that makes sense now.

OK I get it.

They have used a mechanical override Treg Coupler to actuate the handbrake. But that doesn't make any sense to me at all when you have electric brakes. If you have the lock out open so the piston actuates while you are driving you are actually using two systems at the same time, the electric and the mechanical override.

I'd advise you to put the tab in places so the piston can not actuate when your driving. Use the mechanical handbrake as a parking aid, and the electric brakes when driving.

It looks like they set it up this way because Treg only makes the handbrake on the Hydraulic and Override couplers. They do not make a handbrake option for their regular coupler.

 

[Tucson T4R]

OK I get it.

They have used a mechanical override Treg Coupler to actuate the handbrake. But that doesn't make any sense to me at all when you have electric brakes. If you have the lock out open so the piston actuates while you are driving you are actually using two systems at the same time, the electric and the mechanical override.

I'd advise you to put the tab in places so the piston can not actuate when your driving. Use the mechanical handbrake as a parking aid, and the electric brakes when driving.

It looks like they set it up this way because Treg only makes the handbrake on the Hydraulic and Override couplers. They do not make a handbrake option for their regular coupler.

See, this is why I love these exchanges! I didn't really get any education on the how to utilize this system when I purchased it. I wasn't sure if I should have the surge system enabled with the electric brakes or not. Now with your input, it makes a lot more sense. If you didn't have a brake controller you could just use the surge brake system. With an electronic brake controller enabled, I will now leave the surge system disabled and only use the parking brake portion. Not having the two systems competing makes perfect sense.

Thanks for your insight.

 

[Martyn]

See, this is why I love these exchanges! I didn't really get any education on the how to utilize this system when I purchased it. I wasn't sure if I should have the surge system enabled with the electric brakes or not. Now with your input, it makes a lot more sense. If you didn't have a brake controller you could just use the surge brake system. With an electronic brake controller enabled, I will now leave the surge system disabled and only use the parking brake portion. Not having the two systems competing makes perfect sense.

Thanks for your insight.

Brad

The Dexter braked hubs that you have are really only designed to have a mechanical hand brake, it's not meant to be used as a surge system.

If you had an electric brake failure your system gives you a back up but I don't think the intent was to use them together.

Martyn

 

[Tucson T4R]

Brad

The Dexter braked hubs that you have are really only designed to have a mechanical hand brake, it's not meant to be used as a surge system.

If you had an electric brake failure your system gives you a back up but I don't think the intent was to use them together.

Martyn

Good to know. I have a Prodigy brake controller that works very well, so I will keep the surge system disabled from now on. Thanks.

 

[Martyn]

Good to know. I have a Prodigy brake controller that works very well, so I will keep the surge system disabled from now on. Thanks.

It may be worth an e mail to KK to see how they envisioned this system working. From my perspective one should be for driving and the other for parking.

 

[Tucson T4R]

It may be worth an e mail to KK to see how they envisioned this system working. From my perspective one should be for driving and the other for parking.

OK, I have an engineering contact at KK. I'll run it by him and let ya know what they say.

 

[Tucson T4R]

It may be worth an e mail to KK to see how they envisioned this system working. From my perspective one should be for driving and the other for parking.

I talked with KK today. They agree that the surge should be disabled unless needed as a back up to the electric brakes. Normal I should just use the electric brakes for towing and the mechanical for parking.

 

[Martyn]

I talked with KK today. They agree that the surge should be disabled unless needed as a back up to the electric brakes. Normal I should just use the electric brakes for towing and the mechanical for parking.

Nice to know we are in agreement. I'd be hiding my head in shame and making up excuses if their answer had been different :wings:

 

[Tucson T4R]

Nice to know we are in agreement. I'd be hiding my head in shame and making up excuses if their answer had been different :wings:

I doubt that you will ever have to go there. :wings: