Dual Sport Shopping F800 GS / F650GS / other?

[N8URE2]

I have finally bit the bullet and taken my motorcycle safety/licensing course.

Now I'm shopping for a bike. My intended use is allot of road, commuting, errands, (basically anything that I don't have my 4yr old son with me), and then some weekend trips to some dirt and camping.

My goal in the future is to do some multiweek trips, like Continential Divide Trail etc.

I'm a smaller guy 5 ft 8, 170 lbs I have yet to have the chance to throw a leg over the F800GS, but have gotten on the 650 (twin)

I'm wondering if anyone has info on what the downside of going with the 650 is? It is the same engine, less horsepower. seems smaller in physical size, and most important is less expensive. any input would be appreciated
:roost:

 

[goodtimes]

Its the same engine, different fuel and spark mapping, from what I understand.

Better forks on the 800, bigger front wheel, more power, better brakes. If you are just cruising the dirt roads and trails at a relaxed pace, the 650 will serve you well. If you are just a bit aggressive with riding, the 800 would, IMO, be a better choice.

Also, think not only about your riding style right now, but the general direction you tend to take as you gain experience. The 650 may suit you fine now, but how about a year from now? Two years?

Only you can answer that, and only you can decide....I "outgrew" my 650GS (single) after about 20K miles. Awesome bike, just wasn't a perfect fit anymore. The 800GS is a better fit now. I tend to do that. Maybe you don't, but at least consider it before making the decision.

Either way, they are both great bikes. Good luck deciding which one is right for you. I'm sure you'll enjoy either one.

:bike_rider:

 

[RHINO]

good advise above though i prefer more dirt to the heavier touring bikes.

so i have to ask, unless your always riding two up can you really outgrow a 650 gs? or do you just outgrow the thought of it knowing theres a bigger bike to be had? i cant imagine outgrowing my 640 adv and the thought never occurred to me that i ever would.

 

[goodtimes]

good advise above though i prefer more dirt to the heavier touring bikes.

so i have to ask, unless your always riding two up can you really outgrow a 650 gs? or do you just outgrow the thought of it knowing theres a bigger bike to be had? i cant imagine outgrowing my 640 adv and the thought never occurred to me that i ever would.

Last July, I put 4000 miles on the 650GS. The first 2,555 miles was primarily dirt. The western half of the Trans America trail, to be exact. The suspension was decent, considering the $1300 Ohlins shock that was custom built for me (by Ohlins), and the work that Race Tech did to the forks. But there were parts of the trail where the damping rod forks were simply overwealmed, the ground clearance was insufficient, and the short front tire was contributing to the whole problem. The speed I wanted to travel at was not always attainable because the combination of ground clearnace, suspension, load, and terrain just didn't add up. Once we got to the end of the trail, I took the 1400 mile ride from Port Orford to Tucson via the fastest route available....the freeway. I can honestly say that that a 650cc single cylinder just isn't much fun at 85mph for hours on end.

My riding preferences have changed along with my skill set. A 650GS isn't up to the task anymore. That is neither good, nor bad. It just is.

The 800GS is, for me, a better fit. I find it more enjoyable to ride than the 650GS (although when first purchased, the 650 was just as fun).

So, yea. It is possible to outgrow a 650GS. Still a good bike though....all depends on what you want it to do.

:bike_rider:

 

[RHINO]

your response is confusing.

the first part you talk about the lack of bike for the TAT, which would lead me to a more dirt oriented bike

the second half is about the lack of bike on the street, which would lead me to a bigger more powerfull bike.

sounds like the 650 was a good compromise,,, but since your purchase was the bigger bike i have to assume you lean to more long range street and forest rd riding and are done with stuff like TAT?

i'm the opposite, i like more dirt and am willing to put up with less comfy street ride, exp on a 640 adv

its all good, i'm happy we have the choice, see you out there sometime.

 

[Finatic Angler]

I will give you a little of my opinion.

I own two bikes and a quad. The two bikes are a Ducati Monster and last summer I picked up a 2004 DRZ400. I had my Ducati in the shop for service. I had to run home and pick up some paper work so they gave me a BMW 650 to take home. I had always been itching to ride this bike. Now this ride was prior to me buying the DRZ. I like it on smaller roads (local roads). I got on the highway and I did not like the bike anymore. The bike seemed to have no highway power. I like to have a little extra power available on the highway in case you need to make some moves away from a driver etc.

THe larger BMW is claining to have more power which would give you the ability for a better Highway experience.

The DRZ is the same on the highway but is a total blast in the woods.

In the end you have to do what is best for you.

 

[goodtimes]

your response is confusing.

the first part you talk about the lack of bike for the TAT, which would lead me to a more dirt oriented bike

the second half is about the lack of bike on the street, which would lead me to a bigger more powerfull bike.

sounds like the 650 was a good compromise,,, but since your purchase was the bigger bike i have to assume you lean to more long range street and forest rd riding and are done with stuff like TAT?

i'm the opposite, i like more dirt and am willing to put up with less comfy street ride, exp on a 640 adv

its all good, i'm happy we have the choice, see you out there sometime.

Lets see if I can clarify a bit.

The 650GS was at what I would consider it's limit on the TAT, given an average rider (what I consider myself to be). It left me wanting a bit more suspension and ground clearance on the trail (BTW, your 640 has a big step up on the 650GS in both of these measures).

At freeway speeds (80 - 90mph), with a load, the 650GS is again at it's limits...this time with the available power. For better or worse, it seems that my trips always start and end with hours and hours of pavement. Street performance becomes a factor (for me).

The bike was not perfect for either task (no bike would be), although it was (is) capable of both. It got me through the trip with, in the big picture, only minor difficulty, was very reliable, and incredibly efficient (it just about doubled the fuel economy of Scotts 950 Adventure). It just left me wanting more.

More suspension travel. More ground clearance. More power.

But you are correct, it was a *good* compromise.

The 800GS, IMO, is a *better* compromise, given my current riding style. It gives me the three things that I ended up wishing the 650GS had. More power, more suspension travel, and more ground clearance.

I would not hesitate to take the 800GS anywhere that I took the 650. In fact, I would love to take the 800 across the TAT. There were a couple climbs in Nevada that I would like to show just who the heck is boss. :bike_rider:

And I agree with your last statement. I'm glad we have the choice. It makes it so much easier to find a bike that fits your (who ever) needs, desires, and capabilities.

Ride on my friend, ride on. :roost:

 

[Cruiser]

Altho I like the bmw,, I'm more of a dirtbiker,, so I'd go with the 650gs if your more off-road,, more street, the 800,, 80% dirt,, 650X,, or go and take a KTM 950 or 990 adventure for a spin.. still a big bike,, but they are more dirt friendly.. if thats what your into,, Me I ride a 625 KTM LC4... so I'm a little biased..

 

[goodtimes]

Altho I like the bmw,, I'm more of a dirtbiker,, so I'd go with the 650gs if your more off-road,, more street, the 800,, 80% dirt,, 650X,, or go and take a KTM 950 or 990 adventure for a spin.. still a big bike,, but they are more dirt friendly.. if thats what your into,, Me I ride a 625 KTM LC4... so I'm a little biased..

I'm curious, why the 650 over the 800 for the dirt?

The 800 has more ground clearance, more suspension travel, better forks, more power, a 21" front wheel (19" on the 650)....

Personally, I find the 800 to be better suited for the dirt than the 650.

Now if the Germans would just take a few notes about the Austrian suspension....:sombrero:

 

[RHINO]

i'm definitely not comparing the 640a to the 650gs, thats a no brainer.

it sounds like your happy with the 800 and thats what matters, i dont know much about the bike cause its not in my radar of riding style. it must be the contender for ktm 950 sales in the states huh? would be good for you to get the chance to compare it on TAT to the previous bike.

i sold my 640 in favor of a 900elefant, cause i always wanted a fant and i thought it would be dirt enough for me, like a 950adv. it wasnt so i sold it before i destroyed it and i wish i still had the 640, but i will again as soon as i can get me another one. or maybe the new 690 adv if they ever make it.

 

[Cruiser]

Mainly price,, if your gonna play off road your gonna trash the bike,, its easier to trash a cheaper bike,, at least for a 1st bike too,, and at 5'8" I might be wrong but the seat height of the 650 is lower,, or when I sat on them it felt lower. I was at a dealer that had a new 800 and a older 650 dakar. If I was going to beat it off-road.. I'd get a cheaper bike and upgrade in 12 months.. after you learned what not to do and how not to do it..

 

[goodtimes]

Rhino, when you put a 800GS next to a 950ADV, there is no denying that what bike they are competing with for sales. There is a big KTM influence on the BMW.

Cruiser, you are right about trashing a $12K bike. If your riding style leans toward tighter trails, the 650 single (pre 2008) would be better from a price perspective....but performance wise, the 800 would be better. But honestly, if I knew (or highly suspected) that I would be trashing a bike, I wouldn't be on a BMW. There are cheaper bikes out there that will offer better off road performance (at the cost of street performance, refinement, economy, etc).

As for the seat height...the 800GS with the low seat has a 33" seat height. Unloaded, I can get the balls of both feet on the ground with my 30" inseam. That is one huge advantage of the BMW over the KTM's (for those of us who are inseam challenged, anyway).

 

[Cruiser]

The 800 has a 33" seat height?? The one I sat on felt higher than the 650 dakar.. but both are lower than my 625 sxc.. But I ride tight trails.. I need ground clearance.. and the BMW has too much doo dads electronic wise for me as an off road bike.. Which is why the little 650cross country BMW didnt make my list.. But I was hard pressed about the 650x,, if they had a more "normal" fuel tank where you could add a slightly bigger tank without looking like you have a 300 gallon tanker.. I like the 800.. but the original poster sounded like its going to be his first bike,, I never suggest buying a brand new bike as your first bike,.. save cash buy cheaper second hand,, beat the piss outta it and figure out in a season of riding it what bike you want next.. The 650 dakar is no slouch and if not experienced off road,, too much power is worse than not enough.. The 950 KTM is kinda tall but is very good even on single track,, I have buddies who run them on enduro trails,, and then take them down to deals gap a week later..
Check out "jim thorpe Smoking hole rally" over at advrider.com in events forum,, this years was in anual events as it was upgraded to that,, 4th year,, good pics of the easier trails.. and a video of the pics..

 

[goodtimes]

With the low seat, yes, 33". It does feel taller than the 650GS (single). Part of it is that the seat is quite a bit wider at the front, so your legs don't exactly head strait for the ground. Of course, the 33.5" on my 650 was measured (with the BMW single seat), the 33" on the 800GS is a published number. Reality may be different. BMW does seem to cater to people who are after a lower seat height on their dual sports...so the advertised number may be, uh, "skewed".

The 650GS (single) was a good bike...and was the first bike I owned (not the first I had ridden, but the first that I had spent appreciable time on). Looking back, I think the 800 would have been fine as a first bike. But I do have a serious dislike of pain, which helps keep my right wrist in check. Maybe it wouldn't be a good first bike for the OP....but if the choice was between the 650GS (twin) and the 800GS, even as a first bike, I would encourage anyone to at least consider the 800 as it is, IMO, a better bike for adventure travel.

One thing that I would not do, is try to pass either one of them off as a 'dirt bike'. They aren't anywhere close....

:sombrero:

 

[N8URE2]

bought G 650 GS single

my new toy, I went with the single for a few reasons. This being my first bike I liked the lower seat. the price, and the fact that if/when I feel I've out grown it. I will pass it on to my wife and I'll move into the 650 or 800 dual.

For now, this should be a great commuter, learner, and tripper for me.