E0 v. E10 gasoline figures over 900 miles.

[Pskhaat]

Most folks don't believe me that LCs hate ethanol fuels. I used to think it was just the FZ- and F-series engines.

I recently was in a rare opportunity to repeat the exact same stretch of road round-trip. Iowa. Due to shrinking tax revenue, the popo are out in full force and speed limit was the speed to test. Iowa subsidizes ethanol in their mid-grade gasoline fuel.

Stats

• Vehicle: UZJ100
• Full seats & cargo area loaded + roof box.
• Ethanol Fuel
  • 89 octane (AKI)
  • E10 mix
  • $2.49 / gallon
• Regular Gasoline
  • 87 octane (AKI)
  • E0 no blend
  • $2.59 / gallon
• 457 miles each way
• Almost 2 tanks

Calculated mileage with E10: 35.42 gallons
12.9 MPG
$88.21 total price

Calculated mileage with E0: 28.92 gallons
15.8 MPG
$74.91 total price

>22% difference in fuel usage. YMMV

 

[Pest]

It's not just LC's, it's all motors that were designed to burn gasoline. Ethanol is a lower energy fuel than gasoline, so naturally, it will require more fuel to produce the same energy.

It's very noticeable in the new "E-85" vehicles. On gas they will yield say 25MPG, then on E-85, they will yield maybe 22MPG (it's not as huge of a difference because the ECM will advance the timing for a higher oxygenated fuel). Even though the fuel is slightly cheaper, you use more, so the costs even out almost.

 

[gwittman]

That sounds about right with E-85 fuel but something does not sound right with the E-10 figures. E-10 is only 10% alcohol and should see only a very minor drop in mpg. The loss should be no more than 1 to 3%. Even E-85 should not result in a 22% drop in mpg if you vehicle can adjust for it.

I think there must have been something else contributing to that much loss in mpg.

 

[Pskhaat]

So I've noticed this very thing in 4 very distinct vehicles of mine, 2 of which the same model different years, ECU and everything.

Everyone keeps telling me there's something wrong with my vehicle. All of them, and only mine? I'm doubting this and thus the post. Though only a small reduction in fuel energy, E10 clearly has a non-linear effect on total mileage.

 

[Lumberjack]

I had an 87 Grand National I took in for service because it would stall at stop lights. Service manager asked what kind of fuel I run and I told him 87 octane ethanol, he told me to run a couple tanks of regular with no ethanol. Cleared the stalling problem right up. The ethanol must have reduced ignition point to where the engine just would not idle.

On my pickup I also noted improved economy using 87 instead of 89 Iowa fuel, usually 2-3 mpg. It is hard to go to the pump and pay more for what is theoretically less 87>89.

 

[UnfrozenCaveman]

Yup, it's always doubly refreshing to leave the Tall Corn State for points west and have fuel consumption decline

The Rovers ('94 Disco / '97 Defender) exhibit the same change that you've described with the Toyota....the VW ('08 GTi), however, shows little or no change in fuel consumption.

I have no explanation for that.

Thanks for the details, and holler next time you're headed this way! :costumed-smiley-007

 

[Pskhaat]

Well, in my two primary States, AZ & CO, all gasoline is E10 regardless of grade.

 

[Pest]

Well, in my two primary States, AZ & CO, all gasoline is E10 regardless of grade.

Not all. They are hard to find, but I know of a few Conoco stations (in Denver) that specifically advertise Ethanol free fuel in their pumps. Just keep an eye out!

 

[FreeManDan]

Ethanol sucks, bio diesel rules! Good for nothing iowa, swing vote no goodniks!
I've seen bio diesel improve power and milage (in pre 2007 diesel engines), only down side is in cold climates you need alot of fuel antifreeze additives (some rase your cetane, but at a cost of $$) and don't leave it in the tank for more than a month or it will shellac you to death.
Ethanol is also not to be left in an old carburetor as it will cause corrosion. I guess there are advantages and disadvantages to every thing, but ethanol the biggest advantage is Iowa swing vote!
Last training cycle I met a reservist who was a truck driver from Iowa, and before ethanol he would haul corn to only one place, but now he hauls it to every where! From farm to plant, waste from plant to pig farm, and then go right back to corn farm and the cycle begins again$

 

[DaveInDenver]

Well, in my two primary States, AZ & CO, all gasoline is E10 regardless of grade.

If you look you can find Denver stations with full strength in the summer, but in the winter all gasoline must be oxygenated with 10% ethanol (or used to be MTBE alternately, but that is no longer used AFAIK) by volume in the Front Range. The rest of the state is not under the same regs and so it's I assume hit or miss, but honestly I've never thought much about it away from home. Most places don't change in the summer because it's probably cheaper and easier not to bother. I'm sure the refiners prefer that the outlets don't change formulas.

I am lucky that my local go-to place gets the good stuff in the summer (they are also not the cheapest price for that matter). The biggest clue is to figure out where the guys with street rods go, they ALWAYS know where to find relatively cheap but good fuel. Also places that sell real race fuel usually will get the best stuff they can. Here in Denver the Hill's fuel stations sell 108 octane race fuel also sell non-ethanol regular gasoline in the summer.

BTW, my truck hates ethanol fuel, it runs noticeably better with the real stuff. I can get an extra 2 MPG or so and a bit more power (just a bit, power is relative with the 22R-E). It pings A LOT less, so I can bump the timing advance. The ECU (well, the anti-knock feature) on the 22R-E is really dumb...

 

[Pskhaat]

Found some in Idaho Springs

 

[Pskhaat]

Ogallala, Nebraska.

Hey, it's good old fashioned super-low-test, but at least it is E0, but at a premium $:

 

[AmericaOverland]

Is there anyone in Houston who can verify this?

Q-Mart Beechnut Chevron - CHEVRON
8402 Hillcroft Ave, Houston TX
Ethanol-free octane ratings: 85 89 92

The comment below that says, "No EtOH stickers, and Manager said it's pure Gas, at all grades. First one found in Houston area!"

This is at the intersection of Hillcroft and Beechnut, south of 59. It's quite a ways from me. And is that a Texaco pump with the extra E0 pump on the left? Get one down here, ASAP! I don't care what the EPA says. My Scout ought to be arriving next month.

So far, there's 3474 gas stations with E0 identified in the US so far! If you find one, add it at www.pure-gas.org - you can add it anonymously, and even edit the details of existing entries if they differ from what you find, even delete the stations if they no longer carry it. Use this on your trips to find E0. I certainly will on my next long trip!

 

[cwsqbm]

It's not just LC's, it's all motors that were designed to burn gasoline. Ethanol is a lower energy fuel than gasoline, so naturally, it will require more fuel to produce the same energy.

It's very noticeable in the new "E-85" vehicles. On gas they will yield say 25MPG, then on E-85, they will yield maybe 22MPG (it's not as huge of a difference because the ECM will advance the timing for a higher oxygenated fuel). Even though the fuel is slightly cheaper, you use more, so the costs even out almost.

Actually, the different between E10 and E85 is huge:

1 gal of gasoline=124,884btu
1 gal of E85=84,460btu
1 gal of E10=~120,096btu

So, going from pure gasoline to E85 should result in a mileage drop of 33%. Various tests have shown this to be approximately the case in most E85-compatible vehicles. The ECM can't compensate for lower energy density. Given that E85 costs about 90% of E10 around here, it makes no sense to use it.

Going from pure gasoline to E10 gives about about a 4% drop in fuel economy, assuming your vehicle is running fine.

 

[Pskhaat]

Going from pure gasoline to E10 gives about about a 4% drop in fuel economy, assuming your vehicle is running fine.

Yet look at the figures I can produce and this occurs on both of my LandCruisers.