Electrical (better crimps?)

[travel dodge]

I have a lot of electrical work ahead of me on my new Dodge and want to get this one right from the start. I am one of those people that seem to add more and more electrical stuff to my rigs untill I end up with so many wires trouble shooting takes for ever. Anyway I want to build this rig so the electrical acessories are so durable that I will never need to trouble shoot again. I have found marine wire (I think I will use 10g for almost every thing.) Marine switchs and circut brakers, and a marine fuse box. I will invest heavily in heat shrink, flex loom and electrical tape and build each wiring harness in the work shop then install in the truck... My question is car/boat stuff almost always is based on little spade crimp connects that seem to always be the weaks link in everything that I wire. Is there a better option?

 

[njtaco]

A couple of quick suggestions...

Solder, instead of or in addition to crimping

Heat shrink instead of tape, wherever you can

Use ring terminals IPO spades (this may mean buying different components to suit)

Rethink 10Ga for everything...true marine tinned wire is pricey, and if the application does not call for it, 10Ga is overkill and wasted money, OMHO.

Use a "wire numbering kit" and record EVERYTHING on a schematic. Laminate it and keep it on board for future reference.

That's all I can think of for now...good luck, and of course, post pics!

 

[Grim Reaper]

I did vehicle electronics installation for nearly 20 years. I have always prefer the Klein 1005 and and 1006 Crimpers. I probably have 5 pairs. I tend to use the Non insulated crimp on the insulate. They stake the solder-less terminals and they seem to stay on for good.

Where you are going to use a solder-less connector where it might get wet use a little "Dielectric Grease". I have seen over and over solder-less connectors get water in them and start form corrosion via electrolysis. The grease will help prevent that.

Solder where you can is also a good idea. It seals the wire and the led in the solder makes a nice barrier to corrosion. Solder does make for a higher possibility of vibrations causing the wire to actually break. Make sure you support the wire and don't let them hang on their terminations soldered or not.

Gage: 12 and 14 gage are plenty for most needs. 12 gage will easily handle 10 amps over a 10-15ft length. It would be fine with a single set of 100w lights.

Personally when I am doing a lot of add on's I like to set up a central relay location and then run all the control switches on 18-20 gage. Particularly good when you are having to pass through the fire wall. I have used multi strand cabling so I can get 4-6 trigger wires in one cable that is just a little bigger then a 10gage. Makes for a much cleaner install in the vehcile.

The factory fuse box really shouldn't be asked to handle any more then stock. It is designed to be "adequate" for the factory options. Tap it once for a trigger to turn on a Relay when the key is in the accessory position with its main power comging from the battery. All your switched circuits can then feed off that relay without adding any real load to the factory fuse box.

 

[Mike S]

Marine wire is tinned copper with superior multi-layer covering and a good place to start. Buy marine connectors and fittings as well. There are different types of heat shrink tubing - the best is made with an interior adhesive that melts and bonds to the understrate material - stronger than regular heat shrink, and waterproof. Be sure to use the correct size, and consider color coding connections- so that you can tell one circuit from another. Use a heat gun to shrink the tubing, and let it cool completely (so the adhesive can set) before installing. Test each harness sub-component for continuity BEFORE installing it.

I crimp AND solder critical connections. Carefully adjusting wire lengths so that all connectors to a common block are configured the same, and making sure that there is no tension on a connector is important to reducing vibration damage. If you are adding a number of circuits, you might consider off-laoding direct battery connections to a power post conveniently located near relays, solenoids, and fuse box, so you have a more compact design with less wire to run.

After spending untold hours trouble shooting and repairing PO wiring jobs, I highly recommend doing it once - the right way.

 

[pete.wilson]

Hey

Another route to look at is Aviation grade connections. Some of the wire crimps you buy; get a barrel crimped but then the outer prtective shield, instead of heat shrink is a thermal plastic with a sealer inside called an "enviromental crimp". Once the barrel is crimped and the thermal sleeve is slid over the barrel, it gets heat shrink which melts the sealer making for an impervious connection. They are made by a company called "Raychem" and can be purchased through "Dallas Avionics" or "Newark Electronics". Each of these distributors also carry bulkhead connectors (amphenol and others) so you don't just have a hole with wiring going through and hope to seal it with silicone. They all can be found on line.

One other note: Buy aviation grade wiring is far better than anything automotive with a much tougher outer shield to resist chaffing, this can be ordered through Newark Electronics or Wiremasters in Nashville.

 

[eugene]

What I have done with used all OEM style parts. The marine stuff like you said all uses the old fashioned space connectors. I've bought stuff from auto parts stores or dealers or waytek wire which uses the more modern metripack terminals which seem to make a more reliable connection.

 

[travel dodge]

this is great info keep it coming .
I have 2 batteries under the hood (diesel). I belive that I will add an additional battery (optima yellow top) in the back. I will need to isolate that battery. Should I take the positve off one of the batteries or the altenator?
Any one have expericence with the blue sea marine switch and circut braker panels? I like the idea of a resetable circut braker over a fuse, what do you guys think?

 

[flyingwil]

What about solder connectors? I was thinking of switching on over to these but do not know much about them...

http://www.calcentron.com/Pages/elektralink/elektralink_sealed_solder_connectors.html

 

[ntsqd]

If you want that rear battery truly isolated when the Ign switch is off you need some sort of switch or relay or solid state isolator. I use a Marine battery switch, but I'm really interested in the Blue Sea Automatic Charge Relay. Hooks up like a diode isolator, but functions like a continuous duty solenoid w/o needing an Ign 'tickler'.

Grim, you are the second Low Voltage guy I know of who shuns the insulated crimper part of the tool and uses the non-insulated crimper part everywhere.

I've suffered the soldered terminal induced vibration failure. Once you've only just barely gotten the ends of the strands to wet out & seal over stop feeding in more solder. As it is you may have too much in there.

FWIW I prefer to operate relays by jumpering the power supply to the coil to the hot high current terminal, and then switching on the ground side. That way if the wire chafes the load is already applied. The worst case is something you don't need functioning turns on. No blown breakers or burnt fuses that way.
The downside is that it isn't a common method & will throw would-be diagnosers for a loop if they're not aware of this.

 

[Mike S]

Blue Sea ACR

I had a BlueSea ACR in my previous 'cruiser (FJ60). I installed it to manage two Optima YT group 31 batts. Worked very well, and no voltage drop. It takes very lttle power to run, and is supplied with a MANUAL ON - AUTO - MANUAL OFF dash switch lead to combine or isolate manually - or just set it on auto and forget it. I really liked the system, I hooked it to a lighted rocker switch that was lit when in manual mode.

 

[travel dodge]

BlueSea ACR that is sweet, good price.
Solder connection? It seems like a good way to go, I have looked for them before but never found them.
ntsqd do you think they are the way to go? any other sugestions for working with them?
thanks

 

[travel dodge]

ACR 60 amp $64 bucks , is 60 amps enough? the others are more pricey. up to $195

 

[Grim Reaper]

Grim, you are the second Low Voltage guy I know of who shuns the insulated crimper part of the tool and uses the non-insulated crimper part everywhere.

I have had a few of the insulated crimp connection relax on me and the wire pull out. I have as yet to see that happen with the noninsulated crimp. It usualy will punch a hole through the plastic but still leave it well protected .

FWIW I prefer to operate relays by jumpering the power supply to the coil to the hot high current terminal, and then switching on the ground side. That way if the wire chafes the load is already applied. The worst case is something you don't need functioning turns on. No blown breakers or burnt fuses that way.
The downside is that it isn't a common method & will throw would-be diagnosers for a loop if they're not aware of this.

I agree and I like being able to run multi strand wire to a central relay point. Let you use much wider variety of swtiches since you are not carring any sort of load. Makes for a much cleaner install.

 

[ntsqd]

BlueSea ACR that is sweet, good price.
Solder connection? It seems like a good way to go, I have looked for them before but never found them.
ntsqd do you think they are the way to go? any other sugestions for working with them?
thanks

At this point I've no experience with the ACR's. They were pointed out to me by a cK5 member who works in the marine industry (Ryoken) and looked to be exactly what I thot should have been available years ago. Solid state switching isn't all that new, just took a while for the high current switching to make it to the various vehicle industries.

My dune buggy's loom is all soldered connections at 4 terminal strips. In ~20 years one connection has failed due to fatigue from vibration.

That being said, I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with soldered connections. It is very easy to get too much solder into the join. I have also read where, in theory, a soldered connection is actually less conductive than a crimp due to the metallurgy of the solder. I do not believe that this plays out in real life, and it completely ignores any corrosion issues over the long term.
Still, a soldered join requires time & undivided attention if it is to live it's full possible life. I have not yet ponied up for the all-in-one terminals that have a solder pellet inside them and are covered with adhesive lined heat shrink, but I find them very attractive. For a field repair I think they might just be ideal if the solder's melting point is above what might reasonably be achieved underhood.
On-line sources for those that I know of are waytech wire, del city wire, and terminal supply.

 

[travel dodge]

del city is a great site, so many of the sites I have found don't list prices, I need to wait for my next pay check and then I will begin collecting parts
thanks again