Electrical Gremlins - help please

[SilverBullet]

Okay guys, the electrical gremlins are coming out and I need help.

Background: 95 4runner with 3.0 v-6, optimal yellow top (less than 6 months old), and no start.

The gremlins started last week when I tried to re-spool the winch. It would wind in for about 6 feet, then nothing. Sounded like the battery was not providing enough power. Let the truck run for a while and try again, another 4 to 6 feet, then quit. I put a volt meter, battery was full, and with truck running I got nearly 15 volts, so alternator seems to work also. I got the cable wound and left for my wheeling trip last weekend hoping I would not need it. I also installed an auxiliary fuse block for accessories like CB, Ham, and lights. Also put the E-locker power on that block after it got disconnected.

The trip included one water crossing about 30 inches deep. Truck ran great, no winch use, and started fine for me to get to work Sunday and Monday.

This morning, no start. It was early and I had to get to work, so I have not tried much, but It did not even click. Radio still has power, and I tried a jump start, again suspecting the battery. With our other car hooked up, still nothing, not even a click.

After a midnight shift tonight, I have time Thursday through Saturday, so any ideas of where to start or if someone can help me out, everything is appreciated.

 

[corax]

Start with the basics. Clean the battery terminals. Are the battery cable securely fastened to the terminals? How about the cable crimps and eyelets? Engine and body grounds clean and secure? try loosening and then retightening the ground bolts

Here's a quick article on how to perform a voltage drop test. Just because you have voltage at the battery doesn't necessarily mean that it's getting where it needs to be. This simple test will tell you where you're losing voltage and is really the best way to check a circuit. The load has to be present when you do this, in other words starter is trying to crank or winch is trying to turn.

 

[obscurotron]

There are several ways to test a battery, the best being a carbon pile tester to place a load on the battery and see how much power it retains.

Another test (Toyota actually calls this out in their factory manuals) is to start the vehicle and let the alternator charge the battery to 13.5 to 13.8VDC, then turn off the vehicle. Disconnect the battery cables and wait 30 minutes. Check voltage at the terminals. You should have at least 12.2-12.5VDC at the terminals. Any less and the battery is not holding a charge. That could be caused by anything from sulphation to an internal physical issue (cracked plate, etc.)

Some things to check for:

1. What is the age of the battery? They're not going to live forever. I got ~7 years out of the factory Delco in my Tacoma. And that was with lots of winching and accessories.

2. Do you see any 'wet' spots near the battery terminals? This indicates that the electrolyte (liquid) in the battery is leaking or boiling out slowly. A battery can show this and still live a couple of years, but it's a sign of impending doom.

3. Corrosion on the + or - terminals or cables? If so, that can also signify an electrolyte leak, but it can also be from other causes. The end result is you're not able to draw from, or charge up, the battery properly.

4. If the battery is sealed (maintenance-free), it should have an 'eye' that you can look at (small lens at the top of the battery) to see a color. What color was it? Green = good. Black = dead.

Odds are, it is just the battery ending its life - I was lucky that this happened in my driveway last month and not out in the sticks. My battery was *DEAD*, as in 3.5VDC at the terminals and it wouldn't even power the clock at that level. I was able to jump it, but I had a shop look it over to make sure it wasn't the alternator that spiked the battery. Those tests are simple, but I was short on time and had to get the kid to school and me to work. To be fair, I had been warned a couple years ago when the battery wouldn't hold a good (>12.5VDC) charge for more than 4 or 5 days, and I had electrolyte seepage at the + terminal. I ended up replacing mine with an Interstate Megatron (Optima is on my ****list and an Odyssey setup was not going to happen any time soon). So far, I'm happy with the Interstate. Direct fit with higher rated CCA and more importantly a higher rated reserve capacity.

Good luck!

 

[SilverBullet]

Coax, thanks. I will take a look at that site and see what I find.

Obsc - thank you as well, as I said, the battery is very new.

I will start the troubleshooting here and keep you up to date.

 

[obscurotron]

Coax, thanks. I will take a look at that site and see what I find.

Obsc - thank you as well, as I said, the battery is very new.

I will start the troubleshooting here and keep you up to date.

I'm sorry, I missed the "very new" part in your original post. It's not common, but not unheard of, for a new battery to die, though.

Can you pirate a known-good battery from another vehicle and try that?

 

[SilverBullet]

I actually think I am going to replace it with the free replacement warranty. since I will be able to eliminate that as a cause for zero cost, I figure better safe than sorry. new cables will be next since I have some and the pillars did have corrosion last week that I cleaned off.

 

[SilverBullet]

Well, I had a friend over who also wheeled with me. We cleaned all the connections, then gave the starter a few love taps. That got us a click. We had been in the garage about 30 minutes by that point. So a few more taps, and it started. He was thinking maybe it got water in it and actually froze. With a high of 25 today, that makes sense to me. We determined I need new battery terminals, but at least it is starting.

 

[OptimaJim]

Brian, I'm sorry to hear about the problems you've been having and I'd like to help. Are you using the factory hold-down and what is the voltage of your battery now? Your terminals should not have corrosion on them, unless it was left from the previous battery. Your retailer should be able to perform a “charge & check” procedure on the battery and that might be a good idea if you believe the corrosion came from this battery. Fully-charged, your YellowTop should measure approximately 13.0-13.2 volts. You can also fully-charge and disconnect the battery from your truck. It should hold close to that voltage for 12-24 hours afterwards. If it holds voltage when disconnected, but drops voltage when connected, there is an electrical draw in your vehicle that is discharging your battery.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

 

[Hill Bill E.]

So is it just the starter acting up now? Or the winch/other electrical too?

My 4Runner had the starter go out, slowly. "Tapping" it would get it to crank, and jumping it occasionally would.

If it's just the starter acting up now, it could be the problem. If other high draw items (like the winch) are acting up also, it could be bad grounds.

Good luck! I hate electrical gremlins too!:snorkel:

 

[SilverBullet]

I still have winch problems, but I think that is the winch.

Jim, the optimal voltage with the car off is around 12-13, not above 13. When running, I geat closer to 14 volts.

I am replacing the terminals with marine grade, but the cables are clean. The corrosion seems to be coming off the old terminals, so if it continues, it must be tron the battery.