factor PTO winch
- Thread starter rmcnabb
- Start date
the dude
Adventurer
i have one on my 61. I like it but would not acquire one.
Tied to the drive train. Typically you put the tcase in neutral and engage the PTO. This takes away some of your ability to "help" the winch with tire spin if needed. You can engage the tcase and the PTO but your line speed and tire speed never match and I find things bind and do funny things.
There is a small sheer pin that is hard to get to and breaks at the worst times. I drilled mine out and replaced with a 1/4 roll pin knowing it might destroy the winch or pto drive. I can live with that.
You need two people to operate and one of you needs to be in the vehicle. I can and do operate the winch by myself but I find it a PITA in certain situations.
The good, it never over heats, it never runs out of power, it pulls like a mule, it doesn't depend on an electrical system (as long as your rig is running)
The ultimate set up IMO (as convinced by other fellow cruiser heads) , PTO driven hydraulic winch. I believe Lowenbrau has this set up, he's hydro for sure but it might be under the hood.
Tied to the drive train. Typically you put the tcase in neutral and engage the PTO. This takes away some of your ability to "help" the winch with tire spin if needed. You can engage the tcase and the PTO but your line speed and tire speed never match and I find things bind and do funny things.
There is a small sheer pin that is hard to get to and breaks at the worst times. I drilled mine out and replaced with a 1/4 roll pin knowing it might destroy the winch or pto drive. I can live with that.
You need two people to operate and one of you needs to be in the vehicle. I can and do operate the winch by myself but I find it a PITA in certain situations.
The good, it never over heats, it never runs out of power, it pulls like a mule, it doesn't depend on an electrical system (as long as your rig is running)
The ultimate set up IMO (as convinced by other fellow cruiser heads) , PTO driven hydraulic winch. I believe Lowenbrau has this set up, he's hydro for sure but it might be under the hood.
cruiseroutfit
Well-known member
There were some rare 60 Series PTO winches, but as Martin illustrated, they lack some of the modern conveniences that electric winches provide. That said they are very robust and serve their owners well, if you had a 40 I would suggest you recommend you entertain the idea, but given the rare parts and the loss of clearance you'll end up with, the electric winch makes more sense for the 60.
lowenbrau
Explorer
All PTOs pretty much need two people to operate and the factory one is no exception but it operates very easily and reliably. The factory sheer pin will do its job long before the wire rope fails and this can be a frustration so a lot of people carry spares or upgrade it with the result being the occasional broken wire rope. Opinions vary but I feel a lot more comfortable knowing we have at least one PTO winch on a run because I know it it will work after sitting unused for years. Electric winches aren't always as reliable in that way. One of the downfalls is the difficulty in mounting without sacrificing approach angle. The factory winches sit too low and away from the vehicle for subtle mounting.
G and S Cruiserparts have complete 60 series PTO winch setups available.
G and S Cruiserparts have complete 60 series PTO winch setups available.
cruiseroutfit
Well-known member
There you will find disagreement. Don't get me wrong, the PTO units rock but there are 4x4 activities that surely favor an electric winch.
factory porch out front with PTO
modified to sit in a ARB bumber
I now have it even tighter in a custom bumper (that is getting cut up as I type) Not a great pic, but it's in there. It still sticks out about an inch + more then what is needed for a Warn 8274.
I just love pics of Marmaduke!
On the winch issue there where also factory Toyota electric winches. I have two. Once I got seriously stuck in mud, all wheels buried so deep they where totally invisible. It took 3 Nissan Patrols and 1 Volvo C303 before there where enough ground anchor to pull me up. My old Toyota electric winch just pulled! As a test we tried to use a Warn M12000 with snatch block, but it couldn't do the job as well as the old Toyo could on a single line!:victory:
Dipodomys
Observer
PTO vs. Electric
I've had a number of winches over the years, including a PTO. The PTO was a Fairey drum unit mounted on my 1974 Series III 88" Land Rover. If you want cool, a PTO is about as cool as it gets. They are beefy and have a bit of mystery about them, what with all the drive shafts, levers, and such. But, and this is a big but, they are not nearly as convenient as an electric winch. They are very difficult to use if you are without a partner. That's probably the biggest downside, especially from a safety perspective. An electric winch is safer and easier to use when you are by yourself, hands down. This is especially true when you are reeling in cable without a load, which you always need to do after you've unstuck yourself. Usually someone needs to be in the cab running the clutch and gear shift and revving the engine for adjustments to line pull speed. Meanwhile, another guy needs to be up front monitoring the cable feed on the drum. Needless to say, communication between both persons is key.
PTO shear pins are a pain, and severely limit your pulling capacity. The winches are more than capable of pulling a great deal more than the weight that will be allowed by the shear pin and you'll be popping shear pins on a regular basis. Of course they always pop when you're under load and that is inconvenient to say the least. On the Land Rover you had to get out and crawl under the vehicle to replace the pin at the center PTO. Not cool if you're in the water, or in mud, or on a steep slope. You can do as others have done (and I did myself) and replace the stock pin with some kind of stronger material, but then there is the subsequent compromises to safety and possible damage to the winch or even to other parts of your vehicle (frame, transfer case, transmission, etc.). Of course, an FJ60 is a lot beefier than a Land Rover and doubtless could take more punishment (sorry Land Rover lovers, but its true).
I've had a bunch of electric winches: two Ramseys and two Warns. By far, the best of the lot was the Warn 8274 beast that was mounted on my 1977 FJ40. It could pull a tank and had a very fast pull speed. They've been in production for decades and parts are readily available even for older units. For a fraction of the price of a PTO you could buy a nice 8274 and a sweet bumper and mounting kit. You'd also get a much better approach angle than you would with a PTO.
It sounds like you want something heavy duty and maybe a little unique. A PTO is both of those things. It is very old school and has a cool factor that is off the charts. The Warn 8274 has a lot of those characteristics as well. It's been around a long time, and you don't see too many of them. The 8274 is definitely old school compared to some of the goofy new winch offerings that are out there now, what with integrated air compressors, styling considerations, and other stuff that doesn't really add much beyond marketing attraction for gearheads. An older 8274 would be much more heavy duty than anything now offered on the market. It is everything a winch should be, without all of that stupid stuff. It pulls and is easy to use, and that's pretty much what you need from a winch.
I've had a number of winches over the years, including a PTO. The PTO was a Fairey drum unit mounted on my 1974 Series III 88" Land Rover. If you want cool, a PTO is about as cool as it gets. They are beefy and have a bit of mystery about them, what with all the drive shafts, levers, and such. But, and this is a big but, they are not nearly as convenient as an electric winch. They are very difficult to use if you are without a partner. That's probably the biggest downside, especially from a safety perspective. An electric winch is safer and easier to use when you are by yourself, hands down. This is especially true when you are reeling in cable without a load, which you always need to do after you've unstuck yourself. Usually someone needs to be in the cab running the clutch and gear shift and revving the engine for adjustments to line pull speed. Meanwhile, another guy needs to be up front monitoring the cable feed on the drum. Needless to say, communication between both persons is key.
PTO shear pins are a pain, and severely limit your pulling capacity. The winches are more than capable of pulling a great deal more than the weight that will be allowed by the shear pin and you'll be popping shear pins on a regular basis. Of course they always pop when you're under load and that is inconvenient to say the least. On the Land Rover you had to get out and crawl under the vehicle to replace the pin at the center PTO. Not cool if you're in the water, or in mud, or on a steep slope. You can do as others have done (and I did myself) and replace the stock pin with some kind of stronger material, but then there is the subsequent compromises to safety and possible damage to the winch or even to other parts of your vehicle (frame, transfer case, transmission, etc.). Of course, an FJ60 is a lot beefier than a Land Rover and doubtless could take more punishment (sorry Land Rover lovers, but its true).
I've had a bunch of electric winches: two Ramseys and two Warns. By far, the best of the lot was the Warn 8274 beast that was mounted on my 1977 FJ40. It could pull a tank and had a very fast pull speed. They've been in production for decades and parts are readily available even for older units. For a fraction of the price of a PTO you could buy a nice 8274 and a sweet bumper and mounting kit. You'd also get a much better approach angle than you would with a PTO.
It sounds like you want something heavy duty and maybe a little unique. A PTO is both of those things. It is very old school and has a cool factor that is off the charts. The Warn 8274 has a lot of those characteristics as well. It's been around a long time, and you don't see too many of them. The 8274 is definitely old school compared to some of the goofy new winch offerings that are out there now, what with integrated air compressors, styling considerations, and other stuff that doesn't really add much beyond marketing attraction for gearheads. An older 8274 would be much more heavy duty than anything now offered on the market. It is everything a winch should be, without all of that stupid stuff. It pulls and is easy to use, and that's pretty much what you need from a winch.
racingjason
Adventurer
Dude, is there any chance that you have some more pictures or information on the mods required to fit the PTO winch in an ARB bumper? I was looking at a truck that had the same winch but it seemed rather unruly sticking way out there. Yours seems (seemed?) to be a lot tighter in the ARB or is that just an illusion?
Cheers,
Jason
the dude
Adventurer
I don't have any better pictures of it. I no longer have the bumper but if memory serves me correctly, I had to notch the cross member on the ARB to access the PTO drain plug and I cut off some bracketry (for a winch) on the the ARB. I also used a new rear cross member for the PTO winch.
It was a tight fit but the ARB was in it's stock location.
My brother has the bumper now with no winch, I will see if I can track it down and get some pictures. It might take some time.
It was a tight fit but the ARB was in it's stock location.
My brother has the bumper now with no winch, I will see if I can track it down and get some pictures. It might take some time.
