First post. looking for minivan advice

[axcxnj]

Hello all, Ive been a lurker for a while, and really enjoy reading everything in the van forum. theres some great stuff here.

So i have a 2001 Ford Ranger extended cab XLT 2wd that is on its last legs. its got 216,000 miles on it, and while its a fine commuter for putzing back and forth to work. i feel like it no longer has the reliability that im looking for for long road trips. so my wife and I are looking for a replacement. We use the ranger for mostly long weekend trips, year round. going rock and ice climbing, mountain biking and backcountry skiing throughout the northeast. We have a cap on the back that leaks when it rains, but its good enough to make a bed out of. roof racks with spaces for bikes/skis/climbing gear etc. I am also an avid adventure racer, so many weekends throughout the summer im driving with my brother, loaded up with lots of multisport gear.

so here we are. active lifestyle, i love my truck, but a van makes better sense, as we would really like to keep the driving/sleeping area connected. I considered a full size E series or conversion van...but we have a target of 20 mpg, and want to stay with a gas engine. 4wd/awd would be nice, but its not necessary, as the biggest obstacle we tackle is snowy roads, and i plan on having snow tires on whatever vehicle i have next.

It seems that ive shoehorned myself into the minivan. i want something with big interior volume in a small package basically. Suvs are cool, but they lack the volume that a van has, and also rarely get good mileage. we considered upgrading to a F150, but real world-15 mpg is not appetizing.

we recently went to look at a transit connect. I like the package of this van...I had high hopes for it. but the one place it fell short, is that its just a few inches too short inside for me to lay down behind the front seats on an elevated bed platform. I know that a new LWB version is coming out, but i have a hard budget of $15k max and would prefer to spend less. Im not finished considering the TC, but i do want to consider other vans.

we also looked at a toyota Sienna AWD. it was nice, very nice. power everything...which im not really a fan of. after more research it seems like the power sienna doors are a huge problem and i felt like it would probably be an expensive car to maintain.

i want to consider other vans too, I guess im looking for any real world experience in reliability/gas mileage of some other minivans, like the Ford Freestar, Honda Odyssey, Dodge Caravan etc. is there something i should avoid like the plauge?

i very closely considered Astros, and found a pretty nice AWD one with low miles, but the gas mileage turned me off a bit, and ive read about problems with the AWD system not working. I value simplicity in cars...i feel like they will last longer.


so , sorry for my brain dump. hopefully it makes a little bit of sense in where im headed for my car search.. I appreciate any help!

-Aaron


I dont have any great pictures of my truck unfortunately, but heres how we usually roll, very basic bed setup in the back, and racks for whatever we are planning for the weekend. This is the morning of starting a weekend bike tour through the adirondacks

 

[sourdough]

I couldn't find what your looking for… I ended up buying a used 4x4 truck and popup camper. I'm happy and had no problems, put 50 thousand miles on the truck and 50+ nights camping so far. I bought both used figuring the saving would be for gasoline. 15 MPG is the norm. Tundra and four wheel camper have been pretty much trouble free.

 

[Herbie]

RE: The Astro/Safari

You will probably not hit your mileage target, unfortunately. They have a huge aero profile and that V6 is working hard, so unless you can limit yourself to slow-speed cruising, you'll be in the teens most of the time. The upside is that AWD has less of a penalty to mileage than you'd imagine, so you can take that as "free". I never considered that my V6 "mini" van would get roughly the same mileage as a gas full-size van with a V8, but here we are.

As for reliability of the AWD mechanisms, that isn't usually a concern. The early AWDs with a mechanical center diff are about as robust as any system can be. The later systems with electronic control of the diff are also reasonably reliable, and are fairly simple to maintain. If you want to take it a step further for simplicity, a true 4WD transfer case w/ low range sourced from S10, Blazer, etc. will bolt in (often times without any modifications, if you get the year/year interchange right) and can be had in manual-shift, electronic shift, or electronic-shift-converted-to-manual-shift (like mine). This is a big advantage for the Astro vs. a fullsize van AND a mini-van. I have a part-time 4WD with a low range, and the "conversion" cost me about $500. Try that in a Ford, you'd need to almost double it and add a zero. The AWD in mini-vans will be great for on-road use, but their suspension will not easily adapt to bigger tires or lifting, so you'll be limited to about fire-roads or better.

The bigger things to check out, on any of the mini- or "midi-vans" are how you feel about the interior space. You really need to get in there and move around. Unibody minivans like Honda/Toyota/etc. typically have relatively low floors - bad for ground clearance, but also have low ceilings so you have a small window for being able to have proper seated height but also have a bed platform, etc., especially if you envision storage, etc. The also sometimes artificially "raise" the interior floor to offer fold-in seats, etc., which further compromises interior volume. Astros are "half-unibody", and I was surprised that they have relatively high floors. Good for ground clearance and putting stuff underneath, bad for overall headroom. Getting storage underneath a bed platform was a tricky balancing act. Length-wise there's plenty of room for sleeping, but you won't get as much stuff in there as you'd think at first glance. Despite similar external dimensions, Astros offer a full 16" LESS internal length than a VW Vanagon.

I mention this because I've spent a lot of time squeezing everything I need to my Astro. It's working for me, but it's really about as small as I could get away with - anything smaller (like a Transit Connect or real "mini" van), would be tough for my family of 3. That +1 makes a big difference though, as there are a ton more options for two vs. 3+.

One other consideration: If you go with a non-standard or "less-standard" platform, any mods you want to do get increasingly more difficult. Lots of stuff might end up being custom if you decide you want to add bells and whistles later. (Find a winch bumper for an Astro, for example.)

Please don't let me sound overly negative, I love my van and we've had a lot of fun in it. However, if I had it to do over again, given time (not money) spent on my van, I would strongly consider a small 4wd truck with either a slide-in or flip-pac, just so we could get to the using it and skip the building of it. My "city girl" wife has surprised me by saying if she had it to do over again, she'd probably opt for a small SUV and a RTT. The difference being is that "Dad" would have to take the toddler down the ladder for midnight potty visits, not her!

 

[axcxnj]

thanks for the lowdown on the astro. Its helpful to have more perspective

im having a hard time convincing my wife that a truck camper is the way to go. she is not a fan of them..and pretty adamant about gas mileage. On the other hand, all those features probably wouldnt be necessary for us as mainly weekenders...we really just need a bed to lay out in and room to store our gear.

I am pretty set on keeping whatever i end up with, stock. dirt roads or snowy roads are about the most offroading that anything will see. thats why i dont see 4wd/awd as necessary..it would just be nice.

thankfully its just us 2 that im concerned about, we have no plans of expanding the family anytime soon. so travel and sleeping for 2 makes the setup a bit simpler.

 

[bdog1]

A Ford EB van would be a world of space compared to a mini van and can get 16/17 mpg.

Owned a couple of Caravans with great results. Used them like a Mayflower moving truck. Check out the stow and go seating set-up. 22/23 on the road.


Sent by wing, prayer & ATT

 

[mikracer]

Even a regular body E series Ford van would give you tons of space compared to your current setup. It would also allow you to store all your gear inside. I've read that with the 5.4, people can get in the high teens for gas mileage. The cargo vans are the least expensive while the passenger vans really arent too far behind. With your budget, you could have a LOT of gas money left over.

You may also want to consider a Honda Element with an Ecamper pop top. Their website says the bed dimensions are 7' long and up to 4' wide. Sleeping up top leaves the entire cabin for gear/food/etc.

 

[Flagster]

The only minivan experience I have is a 1987 Toyota I drove in high school...
But I did rent a caravan a couple months ago for hauling our bikes all over HI and the thing was great. Well over 20mpgs and it swallowed our bikes and gear easily.

 

[philos]

We spent a month living out of a Toyota Hi-ace in Australia on our honeymoon. We really enjoyed it. It was 2WD, pop-top, propane kitchen stuff, heat exchange, honey buckets for more rural places. It felt just like an 80s minivan like we have here, but with right hand drive and lots of roundabouts. I've seen several Toyotas with AWD all over Baja doing just fine.
Loving my E350 I just brought home though...

 

[hammerhome]

vans

FYI ive owned both a honda element and now own a ford e250 regular body.

The honda got terrible mileage(for a 4banger), 16-19mpg in real world driving without the ecamper top. They are very box and the wind really hurts. We could bring all our bikes and gear but that included putting a pod on top and the bikes off the back, and then we never saw 19mpg again.

Now in a RB ford van I get 15mpg on the freeway, and I have larger than stock all terrain tires. Still have the bikes off the back but I can fit everything inside, and sleep inside. I suffer just a little bit on the gas bill, but I wouldn't go back.

For the shorter trips where we dont car camp we take the TDI and get close to 50mpg. I mention this because at your 15k budget you could get a cargo van and a tdi and have the great mileage when you need it and space when you need it, and have money left over. Vans can be had for under 5k in decent shape while the early to mid 2000's tdi's can be had for 5-7k.

hope that helps

 

[axcxnj]

I was considering the element, i like all the features that it has..but the pop-tops are pretty hard to find out here, and sleeping inside requires the space of the front seats, which i dont want to deal with.

2 separate cars right now isnt really an option. we are renting and dont really have the space for 3 cars, not to mention car insurance in NJ is expensive enough.

the grand caravan came on my radar. its about as mommy-mobile as it gets, but it has a longer wheelbase than the TC, though less interior height. but with the stow and go seating, it makes a nice flat space. I feel like if i removed the rear seats entirely, that well in the rear could be very useful for more storage. The used ones seem like a good bang for the buck.

 

[silvrzuki77]

I bought a 2010 chrysler town and country for daily driving and hauling the kids around after I found out we are having a third kid. I never really wanted a minivan but its been pretty awesome and easier than using my hummer for daddy duty. We have the stow n go seating, power everything dvds players, etc etc. Got a screaming deal on it also. I guess certain ones have heavier brake setups for towing. I average 21 mpg mixed driving and hit 26mpg from vegas to cali and back.

 

[axcxnj]

21 and 26, thats pretty promising. I dont think ill be doing any towing, but would want a hitch for bike racks.

doing some research, it looks like jucy campervans uses the grand caravan as a base...it seems like its got pretty nice useable space.

http://www.jucyrentals.com/vehicles/jucy-champ.aspx

 

[Stroverlander]

According to the link above the Chrysler (with their setup) gets approx 18 mpg and has a paltry 15.8 gallon fuel tank. An Awd Astro will get 18 mpg hwy and has a large 27 gallon fuel tank. The Astro tank is actually more like 25 usable gallons, I've never been able to fill over 25 even after <ahem> running low/out. I would regularly get 450+ miles out of tank highway, loaded and cruising 80-85 mph in stock condition (no lift, larger tires, rtt, etc). Still not 20+ mpg which I agree would be nice. :sombrero:

No concerns about awd longevity in Astro, if there is a problem usually it is a bad encoder shift motor ($100) or occasionally the control module ($150) and both are easy fixes. Herbie is right though about the upgrade to 2-speed transfer case and where I'd put my money if I had to spend money on t-case parts, if I thought it necessary of course.

 

[bdog1]

All Town&Country/ Caravans are the longer wheel base now. It's been years since the shorties and they didn't have stow and go. The storage wells are cool but there just a plastic tub in the floor.

Mopar vans are good for 23mpg hwy.

Sent by wing, prayer & ATT

 

[bdog1]

Really. An AWD Astro Van running 18mpg. People are always complaining about 14/15? Those v6's never were mileage champs but longevity was their bright spot.


Sent by wing, prayer & ATT