First Success w/ Fast Charge EV Batts? Could be HUGE game changer!

[AbleGuy]

Hype or Hope? Time will tell because mass production is still years away...

But think of what you’d have if you could get a Gladiator EV with with these new quick charge batteries?

Better yet, maybe by the time these batteries are available, someone will have invented and produced a small, matched genny to haul with you, to use for topping off your batteries while you’re taking a picnic break back in the boonies!

https://news.yahoo.com/electric-car-battery-charged-fast-211717690.html

An electric-car battery that can be charged as fast as
filling up your gas tank was just shown off by a startup

“An electric-car battery that can be charged in five minutes, the amount of time it takes to fill up a tank of gas, has been produced for the first time in a factory in China. The new lithium-ion batteries were developed by the Israeli company StoreDot and manufactured by Eve Energy in China. The company has produced 1,000 sample batteries compliant with li-ion battery certifications,

For many drivers, electric cars do not cut it for long trips because of the amount of time it takes to charge the vehicles. Electric-car batteries on the market can take anywhere from 30 minutes to 12 hours to charge, though a typical EV takes about eight hours to charge from empty to full, according to Pod Point, a manufacturer of electric-vehicle chargers.

While lithium-ion batteries use graphite as an electrode, the StoreDot battery works faster by replacing graphite with semiconductor nanoparticles that allow ions to pass more easily and quickly. The company expects to replace this electrode with silicon, a much cheaper component, by the end of the year.”

(Tesla is also working on developing silicon electrodes.)

 

[Lovetheworld]

There are tons of these messages. Just one of these battery techs needs to develop intp a stable commercial zone, being ready for production. And be cheaper than lithium-ion or lifepo. Which one of these eventual will do. But it will take time, so for the next 5 years, don't expect any car like this in the dealership.

It does however give you an excuse to postpone you buying an EV, because you want to fill it as fast a petrol car. Which is even harder for a big truck.

While in reality, you probably get everywhere by just charging when the vehicle is stationary (which it is 90% of the time)
Then a few days in the year, you need the fast charger, and yes it is a bit slower than filling up with diesel/petrol, but it doesn't matter that much.

I save time and money not going to gas stations throughout the year, so I am fine with needing an hour extra to get to my holiday destonation.
Any new EV on the market already has very decent charging options.

Even most business can already work with what is coming on the market now and within 2 years. No need to wait for some super battery tech or hydrogen.

 

[DaveInDenver]

The problem isn't just the batteries (mainly their tolerance for heat) but also the charging stations. There's a limit to how much current you can push without the handle getting hot. The solution has been to increase the voltage to keep current manageable but there's a limit there, too. As it is the fastest chargers right now need a 600V 3-phase branch which limits them to commercial and industrial locations. A residential customer can't get 3-phase and will top at 240V and generally 200A service. Solutions will present themselves of course and the issue is refueling while traveling, so that's obviously what their trying to get working.

 

[Regcabguy]

That's what it's going to take for the working stiff to embrace this technology. 5 minute charges for 3-400 mile runs. Gas stations will have a couple of aisles with chargers and the rest with gasoline. The idea of having a car/truck is to be able to bail in an instant and have access to charge stations everywhere as we have for fossil fuels today. We're getting there!

 

[Lovetheworld]

That's what it's going to take for the working stiff to embrace this technology. 5 minute charges for 3-400 mile runs. Gas stations will have a couple of aisles with chargers and the rest with gasoline. The idea of having a car/truck is to be able to bail in an instant and have access to charge stations everywhere as we have for fossil fuels today. We're getting there!

Lets take the Rivian truck. A 350 400 mile run means you would empty most of the HUGE 180kWh batterypack. Lets assum you use up 160kWh of the pack before you get to have a pee. Because you probably have to pee after 400 miles non-stop. And you only have time to pee, since you give yourself only 5 minutes, there will be no eating, no lunch/dinner. I have no idea why you want to drive 800 miles without having some food or even a decent break, but yeah, that is what you want, lets continue the hypothesis
160kWh in 5 minutes means you have to charge at a rate close to 2000 kilowatts! That is 2 megawatt, in other words, you need the power connection of a small town. And all of that just so you can do an 800 mile trip with only one pee-stop.
And you will sure as hell pay much more for your electricity than petrol, because the grid connection for 2000 kilowatts will cost a fortune. And it will need to be earned back.
5 pickup trucks charging in 5 minutes at the same time, you need the power connection of a small city!

This is all the consequence of having so little time, but having a very inefficient vehicle (a bulky heavy truck will always cost a lot of energy to move around)

While in reality, you hardly need all of this. I have my electric car for half a year now, and I used a fast charger only once for 10 minutes. Used public charging points only 4 times briefly.
All the rest was charging at home at slow speed, which gives me a 200 to 250 mile range. Sure, if I take it for holiday, it will be a bit slower than a petrol car, but in reality it will hardly be noticeable.
I will be happy to take my time to eat and think about the time and money I saved the rest of the year and my car only charges at 50KW, which is not impressive at all. But here in Netherlands even McDonalds are getting 50KW chargers now, they will pop-up at lots of places.

And that is my point, it is useless to focus on 5 minute charging times. The current trucks coming out (Rivian, Cybertruck etc) are already charging fast enough for a decent roadtrips with normal people who take more than 5 minutes rest on 800 miles.
It is all range anxiety, which is an issue for people about electric cars but who DON'T have an electric car. Once you have an electric car, the range anxiety is cured
(ok, unless you do a coast to coast roadtrip in the first electric car which doesn't even reach 100 miles)

The problem isn't just the batteries (mainly their tolerance for heat) but also the charging stations. There's a limit to how much current you can push without the handle getting hot. The solution has been to increase the voltage to keep current manageable but there's a limit there, too. As it is the fastest chargers right now need a 600V 3-phase branch which limits them to commercial and industrial locations. A residential customer can't get 3-phase and will top at 240V and generally 200A service. Solutions will present themselves of course and the issue is refueling while traveling, so that's obviously what their trying to get working.

Yes, but a few things: It is mostly chosing between 400V and 800V direct current. And new cars that can switch between those two. That is all the new stuff, it used to be 300-400V only. And they have liquid cooled cables if necessary.
Here in Europe, it is different. We always get 230V from the plug, and it is increasingly more common to get 3-phase to your house.
More and more EVs are getting 3 phase charing because of that, and so you could charge at 11KW at home, which is very good.
Earlier US and Asian cars were focussed on single phase, maxing out at 7kW which is typically not reachable in EU so you charge at 4kW. This is typically always enough for regular cars.

 

[vintageracer]

The reality is that 95%+ of ALL Americans could drive an electric vehicle everyday RIGHT NOW with no changes whatsoever in their daily driving/commuting life. Most electric vehicles today have a 200-300 mile range which is far greater than most all Americans drive during their normal day.

But what about when I need to go see Granny in Chicago 600 miles away?

Go rent a damn gas powered car from Enterprise for the weekend and git on with life!

Electric vehicles will become the norm when the psychology of the American HERD adopts the HERD mentality that this electric vehicle thing really does work and is the "Right Thing to Do" for my daily transportation needs.

Want to make the electric vehicle the norm instead of the exception?

All it takes is a bunch of OEM manufacturer advertising and a bunch of HERD mentality social media discussion.

 

[crazysccrmd]

I have a deposit down on the Cybertruck and the R1T, when/if they ever make it into real production I'll decide between the two. With 400 mile range I think I'll be alright. There are plenty of times I've smashed my way across the country at 1200+ miles a day with just quick fuel and piss stops but I'm willing to give that up. I do it more because there is nothing else better to do when it only takes 10 minutes to top off the tank and grab a redbull before getting on the road. Having to stop for an hour or two to recharge really wouldn't have effected my trips (other than back home to Alaska) much at all.

 

[DaveInDenver]

The reality is that 95%+ of ALL Americans could drive an electric vehicle everyday RIGHT NOW with no changes whatsoever in their daily driving/commuting life. Most electric vehicles today have a 200-300 mile range which is far greater than most all Americans drive during their normal day.

But what about when I need to go see Granny in Chicago 600 miles away?

Go rent a damn gas powered car from Enterprise for the weekend and git on with life!

Electric vehicles will become the norm when the psychology of the American HERD adopts the HERD mentality that this electric vehicle thing really does work and is the "Right Thing to Do" for my daily transportation needs.

Want to make the electric vehicle the norm instead of the exception?

All it takes is a bunch of OEM manufacturer advertising and a bunch of HERD mentality social media discussion.

Congratulations worker, the Committee for Appropriate Transportation has determined you qualify for an eTrabant. You will be notified in 3 to 6 months when one has been allocated.

 

[plh]

The reality is that 95%+ of ALL Americans could drive an electric vehicle everyday RIGHT NOW with no changes whatsoever in their daily driving/commuting life.

Pre COVID work from home order, my wife did her 14 mile 1 way commute R/T 100% on EV with our Outlander PHEV. (summer) Batteries still have the cold temperature & range operating issue, nearly half in our winters has been our experience.

Since March 2020 her vehicle doesn't get many miles, but does have a full charge nearly all the time.

 

[Lovetheworld]

Pre COVID work from home order, my wife did her 14 mile 1 way commute R/T 100% on EV with our Outlander PHEV. (summer) Batteries still have the cold temperature & range operating issue, nearly half in our winters has been our experience.

Since March 2020 her vehicle doesn't get many miles, but does have a full charge nearly all the time.

Try to keep the battery not at 100% if the vehicle is stationary for long times. Especially with COVID, many cars are just sitting there, maybe used once a week. Then it is better to not have them at 100% all the time. Rather keep it at 80% or don't care if it is 50%, that is actually better for the battery than 100%.

 

[plh]

Try to keep the battery not at 100% if the vehicle is stationary for long times. Especially with COVID, many cars are just sitting there, maybe used once a week. Then it is better to not have them at 100% all the time. Rather keep it at 80% or don't care if it is 50%, that is actually better for the battery than 100%.

She is an ABC (always be charging) type person. Can't change that. We won't own the vehicle long enough to matter. Probably trading it off in summer '21.

 

[Todd780]

Congratulations worker, the Committee for Appropriate Transportation has determined you qualify for an eTrabant. You will be notified in 3 to 6 months when one has been allocated.

 

[vintageracer]

Congratulations worker, the Committee for Appropriate Transportation has determined you qualify for an eTrabant. You will be notified in 3 to 6 months when one has been allocated.

At least I unlike you live in the real world!

 

[Dalko43]

Lets take the Rivian truck. A 350 400 mile run means you would empty most of the HUGE 180kWh batterypack. Lets assum you use up 160kWh of the pack before you get to have a pee. Because you probably have to pee after 400 miles non-stop. And you only have time to pee, since you give yourself only 5 minutes, there will be no eating, no lunch/dinner. I have no idea why you want to drive 800 miles without having some food or even a decent break, but yeah, that is what you want, lets continue the hypothesis
160kWh in 5 minutes means you have to charge at a rate close to 2000 kilowatts! That is 2 megawatt, in other words, you need the power connection of a small town. And all of that just so you can do an 800 mile trip with only one pee-stop.
And you will sure as hell pay much more for your electricity than petrol, because the grid connection for 2000 kilowatts will cost a fortune. And it will need to be earned back.
5 pickup trucks charging in 5 minutes at the same time, you need the power connection of a small city!

This is all the consequence of having so little time, but having a very inefficient vehicle (a bulky heavy truck will always cost a lot of energy to move around)

While in reality, you hardly need all of this. I have my electric car for half a year now, and I used a fast charger only once for 10 minutes. Used public charging points only 4 times briefly.
All the rest was charging at home at slow speed, which gives me a 200 to 250 mile range. Sure, if I take it for holiday, it will be a bit slower than a petrol car, but in reality it will hardly be noticeable.
I will be happy to take my time to eat and think about the time and money I saved the rest of the year and my car only charges at 50KW, which is not impressive at all. But here in Netherlands even McDonalds are getting 50KW chargers now, they will pop-up at lots of places.

And that is my point, it is useless to focus on 5 minute charging times. The current trucks coming out (Rivian, Cybertruck etc) are already charging fast enough for a decent roadtrips with normal people who take more than 5 minutes rest on 800 miles.
It is all range anxiety, which is an issue for people about electric cars but who DON'T have an electric car. Once you have an electric car, the range anxiety is cured
(ok, unless you do a coast to coast roadtrip in the first electric car which doesn't even reach 100 miles)

Range anxiety for the average Joe Schmoe (or Nancy Schmoe) is a bit over-exaggerated, I agree. If you are simply cruising around town or conducting a moderately-paced road trip (with reasonable breaks), then there is certainly a convenient balance to be had between charge-up's and making mileage.

However, this is an overland forum. In the world of overlanding, range anxiety is a very realistic concern, especially when carrying heavy loads over/through arduous terrain and challenging environmental conditions (extreme heat or cold) where, you know, vehicles actually have to do a bit of work. Any vehicle being considered for overlanding needs to be able to cover large distances while carrying/towing heavy loads...simply getting 300-400 miles of range in 'ideal' driving conditions is not enough. And having to wait 30 minutes or more to regain full range capacity can be a real detriment for those travel days where the goal is to cover several hundred miles or more. And that 30 minute wait assumes there will be EV charging infrastructure throughout all regions (remote and urban) in the immediate future...a tall order.

So you're right...a lot of people within the 4x4 and overland communities are hesitant to adopt EV's just yet, and for good reason.

 

[Lovetheworld]

Define overlanding. I see a lot of US people on here who daily pickup trucks and take them out in the weekends (which also requires long distances in short time)
I am pretty confident, most people driving a pickup truck in North-America wouldn't have an issue, and Rivian even left soms chargers en route in South-America. (I am not sure if they are permanent or whatever)
We did two trips throughout Asia with Toyota 4x4 diesels. I would be willing to do that in something like a Rivian. Sure, at some point you have to get creative, no EV infrastructure, so slow charging on a socket.
There's been a guy who drove a Nissan Leaf across West coast of Africa, so I guess anything is possible.

What I find funny is that everybody wants the product to behave exactly like everything they are used too. Trying to apply their understanding to that what is new.
While in reality, the problem is hardly there, and the new product even outperforms the old. In that, why the hell are we talking about 5 minute fuel ups if you don't realize you will hardly spend any time anymore to charge/fuel your car, because it will be full every morning.

And sure, it is pretty easy to find a route that would be somewhat hard with an EV. But for overlanding, who cares if your truck is fuel in 5 minutes or 30 minutes, you need some rest anyway.
And in far away countries they will never have a 5 minute charger, at least not in 20 years or so.

Perhaps it is not so useful to try and go electric with your overland rig.
Perhaps you should think about why the hell you are daily driving a 4x4. Don't sell the 4x4, keep it on the side for your fun trips or pull a trailer or something.
But just daily drive a regular sized electric car. That will be the best option.
Whatever you use to power your pickup truck, it will always be an inefficient thing, unless you are using its potential. Which is pulling heavy trailers or overlanding / 4x4 trips.
From this side of the pond (Europe) we completely don't understand the use of pickups. Unless it is for pulling heavy trailers. In all the other cases we only see downsides.
If I were in the US, I would buy a second hand electric car (like Chevy Bolt or Leaf or something) and daily that, and just keep some V8 truck for nice trips. That will still consume less energy than producing a new electric 4x4 and driving that daily. And don't wait for 5 minute charging, it won't happen this decade I am afraid.
Or it will happen this decade, and you are not going to use it because it will be incredibly expensive compared to a half hour fill up, and now owning an EV, you realize you hardly need a fast charger at all.

Really, fast charging is completely overrated, people should realize this.

Sure, the 0,1% of pickup truck owners who really drive it to the southern half or something, they can complain. But given the sales of pickup trucks in the US, we all know only a tiny fraction would get into different continents without EV infrastructure. And even then there are many options if you are not in a hurry.