FJ40 stock roll cage

rezdiver

Adventurer
Hi,
Has anyone had any first hand experience with accidents or have any specs on the strength of the stock roll cage and the capture bolt area strength between the main hoop and rear hoops?

weak spots and areas that need strengthening? not looking at building a complete new cage, these questions are based only for the stock model.

thanks,
 

rusty_tlc

Explorer
IMHO the stock bar is for appearance only. The metal is scary thin compared to after market.

I suggest you might want to re-think the whole new roll bar idea.

If not I have the OEM one out of my truck, I'll make you a great deal on it.
 

JasonH

New member
This was a stock roll bar with a front hoop added to it. (everybody was fine.)

ICBM_03_029_small2.jpg

ICBM_03_031_small1.jpg
 

jesusgatos

Explorer
I would NEVER build/wheel/drive a Jeep or FJ with a factory 'rollbar'. Not even on the street. But then, I'm the kind of guy that likes to put rollcages in just about all of my vehicles. Why not? Racecar drivers are walking away from insane crashes, while people are dying in relatively mild crashes on the street. I'm not trying to go out like that.
 

rezdiver

Adventurer
I would NEVER build/wheel/drive a Jeep or FJ with a factory 'rollbar'. Not even on the street. But then, I'm the kind of guy that likes to put rollcages in just about all of my vehicles. Why not? Racecar drivers are walking away from insane crashes, while people are dying in relatively mild crashes on the street. I'm not trying to go out like that.

I would rethink your theory on that, most vehicles built nowadays especially for the street have incorporated crumple zones and orther effects to protect you properly, just because you have welded in a cage in your vehicle does not make you safe. that race car driver is wearing a helmet with a hans device, with a 6 point harness and has no crumple zones that is why he is walking away from it.
most of these 4x4's built today with indestructable cages are actually more dangerous for on road and higher speed accidents. also jeep rollbars do hold up for what they were designed for, i was just not sure regarding the old FJ.
 

rusty_tlc

Explorer
.....
most of these 4x4's built today with indestructable cages are actually more dangerous for on road and higher speed accidents. also jeep rollbars do hold up for what they were designed for, i was just not sure regarding the old FJ.
I would argue that the majority of 4X4's with "indestructable" roll cages are older designs that had no crumple zones and are considerably safer with a roll cage than they were stock. I'm betting my life on it with my FJ40.;)
 

jesusgatos

Explorer
I would rethink your theory on that, most vehicles built nowadays especially for the street have incorporated crumple zones and orther effects to protect you properly, just because you have welded in a cage in your vehicle does not make you safe. that race car driver is wearing a helmet with a hans device, with a 6 point harness and has no crumple zones that is why he is walking away from it.
most of these 4x4's built today with indestructable cages are actually more dangerous for on road and higher speed accidents. also jeep rollbars do hold up for what they were designed for, i was just not sure regarding the old FJ.
I'm pretty familiar with rollcage and racecar chassis/rollcage design, and I'm sorry but I just don't agree with you. Not at all.
 

rezdiver

Adventurer
maybe my comment was misplaced.
I completely agree with you regarding old jeeps or fj benifiting greatly from a custom cage definately.
reason for my comment was that you had mentioned putting in a cage in just about all your vehicles, and people dying in mild crashes. i assumed you meant on daily driver cars vans, etc.. .
i should have asked what vehicles you drive before i posted my comment.

my comment on indestructable cages being more dangerous on the street than an engineered vehicle with crumple zones. sure its going to save your *** by keeping you secure in the confines of the cage. but being such a solid vehicle, what are the impact forces doing to your internals and your head and neck?
 
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jesusgatos

Explorer
Well I think we were both making some generalizations, but sure, let's talk about rollcages in street-driven vehicles. In a typical Jeep or FJ, you're looking at a pretty basic 6-point cage at the very least. There are a million variations, but most of them extend forward to the A-pillar. I wouldn't consider anything less a rollcage. But I did say that I'd be inclined to put a rollcage in just about any/every vehicle I own. Given an opportunity, I'll always jump at the chance to make my vehicles safer. The way I see it rollcages serve different purposes in different vehicles, but when they're designed right and built well, I think the benefits far outweigh the downsides. I'm not trying to make myself out to be some kind of expert here, but I'll use some vehicles I've built and been involved with as examples, just to further the conversation.

I built several different rollcages for my old CJ7. The last version was pretty simple, but it was tied-into the frame in a bolt-together fashion so I could still remove the body if/when I needed to. That was a custom frame, kevlar tub, and full custom cage, but it was still basically just a Jeep. Full-bodied and street-driven. It was comfortable to drive on the freeway with 40" tires, and handled respectably for such a big Jeep. As much as I drove it on the street though, I was primarily concerned about low-speed offroad flops. You know what I'm talking about. I could have built a safer cage, but didn't want to have to deal with anything too intrusive. Beard suspension seats and Simpson 5-point harnesses kept me pretty secure in there.

The rollcage I built for my Tacoma was a lot more involved. Different vehicle, different purpose. The Tacoma gets flogged off-road at a LOT higher speeds, and the consequences are a lot more serious if something goes wrong. So I caged it from bumper-to-bumper, with a full interior cage. Also installed a set of Sparco Evo racing buckets and Crow 5-point harnesses. This is also a street-driven vehicle. My daily driver right now, actually. I did cut out one of the door bars to make it quicker/easier to get in/out of, but I think it's still pretty close to a race-quality cage. Oh, and the airbag is still intact and functional.

Here's an example of a rollcage that I can't take credit for building, but had a hand in planning. This HD2500 project was intended to be used as a tow-rig, prerunner, chase-truck, and daily-driver. Tall order, but the rollcage was built so as to be almost completely invisible, and helps to keep things nice and comfortable inside. Airbags are also still intact and functional in this vehicle too.

I'm also planning on installing a rollcage in my motorhome (some discussion about that here). This is going to be another simple Jeep-style cage, and will NOT be attached to the frame in any way (the cab is on suspension mounts).

All VERY different vehicles, with different types of rollcages designed/built to suit each of them. But in every case, I would say they're safer than they would be without them. The rollcages in each of those vehicles was built with the type of crashes/accidents that they're each most likely to experience off-road. Beyond that, I think they are all going to be safer on-road too. I'm thinking about the kind of accidents where people are likely to get mangled/killed. You know, getting T-boned, offset head-on crashes, etc.

My thinking is that the rollcages all create some kind of safety capsule around the driver and occupants. No rollcage is deathproof, but I'll take any measurable increase in safety. And I think each of those rollcages adds to the safety of those vehicles.

In the event that I get in an accident in my Tacoma, I'm not too worried about the other vehicle ending up in my lap. In my Jeep, the rocker panels guards (which are part of the rollcage) would almost certainly be helpful if I ever got T-boned. I've seen pictures of accidents where deuce's have been involved in head-on accidents, and their own front axles get pushed under them. The front wheels/tires smashed into the cab. My goal is really just to try and preserve the integrity of the cab, in order to protect myself and any passengers. Rollcages do that. Some better than others. Like everything else, it's a compromise.

I guess I would relate it to the safety gear that I wear when I'm riding my motorcycles. Nothing is going to save me from being crushed or mangled, but I wear an aerostitch suit whenever I ride on-road because I'd rather not grind my kneecaps off and end up in a burn-ward if I go sliding across the asphalt. Not a silver-bullet, but I wouldn't ride naked.
 

rezdiver

Adventurer
nice builds, and good points and reasoning behind the builds especially for offroad.

I am still hesitant regarding on road cages that have no give. especially on the points you mentioned of head-ons and T-bones.

my main concern is if having the design of such a rigid cage in a vehicle makes it safer why would all these auto manufacturers and engineers not incorporate ridgid structural design in the builds. they have spent copious amounts of research and dollars to come up with all these new designs.

if it was safer to drive around in a tank like a chevy impala why has the manufacturing process moved so much towards the new designs. i would assume that the majority of the injuries were from internal body damage and serious head injuries from accidents in the good old Impalas becasue they were such tanks and had no give. 5-6 point harnesses are a great addition but in a road accident (by this i mean higher speed) your head would rebound faster than a basketball as it is the only thing left on the vehicle with any give.


you know what after reading all this i take it back, most vehicles are designed to eliminate any intrusion into the passenger cavity of the vehicle, so this would be the same as having the cage. now if you start extending the cage beyond the passenger compartment of the vehicle thereby eliminating some of the areas of absorbtion like the engine bay and trunk then you are making it more dangerous for on road use for head and neck and internal injuries..

back to the FJ40 rollbar, or not
 

jesusgatos

Explorer
Well it's your thread, so we can take it off-topic if you want. But that was the point I was trying to make. Maybe I should have expressed myself more clearly. I want cab in every vehicle I'm in to be a crumple-free-zone. You don't have to extend the rollcage beyond there if you don't want to affect the crumple-zones. If you're concerned about using racing harnesses on the street, take a look at thes Schroth harnesses. They're very similar to regular seatbelts, except they have two shoulder-straps (I'm using these harnesses in my motorhome). I've even seen people use two regular seatbelts (driver's-side and passenger's-side together), so they're criss-crossing each other. Kinda cumbersome, but I thought it was an interesting idea.

As far as Jeeps and Jeep-type vehicles go, I would say that the only reason they aren't equipped with REAL rollcages is cost. Plain and simple. The manufacturers can get away with selling vehicles with these cheesy 'rollbars', so they do. But I don't think they're safe, and I don't think there's any conceivable downside to building a better, safer rollcage. Unless maybe you're like one of my buddies that has a vintage FJ40 that he doesn't want to modify.
 

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