Fly and Ride Patagonia questions.

[zolo]

ExPo riders.
I have several questions about guided moto touring. In relation to taking a moto-vacation as a Fly and Ride.
Not all of us can mange to take off for a year or even a month and ride to Patagonia or even up the Dalton. I'm curious what parts of a tour would make or break your decision to pay for a Fly and Ride tour. So here it goes. I tried to post this as a poll but the format is not really correct for this. Any feed back would be great. I'd like to keep this thread focused on these questions. I know what is currently offered, but what can be improved upon?
How does the total package influence who you might choose for a moto tour.
Thanks Daniel


1- Time length of the tour. 1 week 2 weeks 3 weeks? Longer?
2- Number of days actually riding vs "off days" doing other activities in the local area.
3- Cultural interaction. Food, music, markets ETC.
4- Brand of motorcycle the tour company uses.
5- Route difficulty.
6- Option to have a chase truck.
7- Finally price. Considering the tour checks all your other boxes.

 

[Christophe Noel]

I've been a guide for many years and managed two of the most successful tour companies in AK and Europe. I have also made the transition from tour pro, to tour client. I actually loved being a client as much as anything.

Just in the last two years I have been invited to join two different guided tours - for free. I had to turn them both down. One was a 19 day ride and who has that many days to burn? The other was billed as a "true adventure" and in the description they mentioned potential for "extremely rough terrain" with the portent of broken bikes and men. Okay...pass. Not that I don't like a good adventure, but I don't want to be thrown into the unknown. That's the whole point for many people of a guided tour, the unknowns are mitigated so the travel experience can be enjoyed. Some people may find it exciting to hang out in a thatched roof hut for two days while spare parts arrive, but for some of us...not so much.

I would couch that statement above as - a guide company should not try to pitch their lack of planning as "adventure."

The duration of a tour is critical. When I managed a company in Europe, ten days was the sweet spot. Five days was too few, and any more bit into limited vacation time. With regard to motorcycles, I tend to think many people don't care too much. They simply want a reliable machine. If someone is choosing a tour by the bike over the tour itself, the reputation of the guides, company and other variables, those are clients you probably don't want. And speaking from experience, there's tons you DO NOT want.

I would also suggest that you always over estimate the difficulty of terrain. You never want to surprise your clients with challenges they were not prepared for. I say this as a guide who has hand-held clients on bicycle tours, big mountain climbs, sea kayak trips, etc. I always told my guides, nobody wants to pay for a bootcamp experience. You want them back so you want them to feel like they kicked *** and had fun, not got pushed to the brink.

The chase truck will be relative to the size of the group, the resources you need to facilitate that group, and the level of support you want to provide.

Price is always subjective and wholly tied to your reputation and the clients you hope to book. The bicycle tour company I managed in Europe sold ten day trips for $12,000 per person. And we were booked every year. It just depends on who you want as clients.

 

[zolo]

In the 10 day trips you guided, was every day a riding day? On a bike you cover much less ground than on a moto but the idea is to offer some immersion into culture and other activities, such as rafting, boat tours and general sight seeing off the bike.

I certainly understand making clients feel good about the trip and not turning it into a giant slog.

As for a chase truck I feel like its a good thing to have from a safety stand point. So many really remote roads that could cause issue should someone get hurt and need transport off the bike.

 

[Christophe Noel]

Bicycle and motorcycle travel are surprisingly similar. It's about pairing the density of the attractions with the mode of transport. As an example, covering just 35 miles a day in Burgundy, France allows you to see a ton - too much. It is similar to covering 150-250 miles in the Andes of Ecuador just as an example. So it is largely about route design, and creating the most saturated experience possible within the hours/miles you have to work with.

It's always a good idea with any trip to pad in rest days or optional travel days, particularly for trips beyond a week. I found this to really be helpful for a number of reasons. Sometimes groups of clients need a break from each other, or even husbands and wives. Those down days offer a chance to get some distance from the group, do their own thing, and have at least some independent travel time, even if it's just chilling at a hotel. The key is to offer options on those days and not just make it a down day as people like me go nuts sitting around.

I spent many years in Europe working primarily as a route designer. Creating the fabric of a travel experience that is the sole reason why people buy tours. Value is really added when you guide your clients to some hidden gem not in guide books, or something only the locals know of. When your clients feel like they're sharing in a secret...that's the money. It's about showing people the stuff they would have missed if they didn't hire guides.

Support vehicles are great tools, and you can often use them in different ways. Some groups may like to see it in sight all the time. Others may just like knowing it's there and can be summoned if need be, but kept out of sight until then.

The tour company I managed in France won many awards, I think because I had one aspect I developed with regard to the experience. We always tried to make sure that at least a third of the experiences we presented were not listed in the itinerary. Those little surprises were key. We listed just enough to entice people to sign up, but wanted to give them a sense of discovery while on tour. Guiding is fun stuff. Few do it worth a damn.

 

[zolo]

Guiding is fun stuff. Few do it worth a damn.

Your making me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...

But I understand all yours points and they are excellent info and points of view. The rest days to me are mandatory and they are in the itinerary as a way to offer other experiences besides just riding, and added at points in the trip when those other things are available.

Good point about not exposing the whole trip online. Finding local spots and secrets is an excellent tip.

 

[zolo]

I was really hoping more folks would chime in. As a fly and ride tour through Patagonia is an excellent option to explore this part of the world in an adventurous but safe and supported way. Not everyone is ready to fly to a new country and battle the language, new roads, and remote parts of the world on there own.

 

[Christophe Noel]

Your making me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...

Hahaha. Sorry, was not my intention to be a buzzkill. There are many disciplines that go into being a good guide and offering a good tour. The X-factor is having that congenial element that makes someone a good host, a supportive leader, an instant travel buddy, etc. Some have it naturally, others not so much.

I'm sure others will chime in. Thanks for indulging me. This was my career for a decade and I often miss it.

 

[jkam]

While I have ridden extensively in Patagonia, your questions leave me asking more questions.
I will answer as best I can.


1- Time length of the tour. 1 week 2 weeks 3 weeks? Longer?
Patagonia is vast and not the easiest to navigate from lack of roads. Depending on what your interests are you could spend months riding around exploring.
2- Number of days actually riding vs "off days" doing other activities in the local area.
Depends on length of tour. For every 5 days riding I like a rest day, especially in trying conditions.
3- Cultural interaction. Food, music, markets ETC.
Again, depends on your desires, I prefer to absorb as much local culture as I can. It's a main reason I travel.
4- Brand of motorcycle the tour company uses.
I could care less, as long as it fits the tour well enough.
5- Route difficulty.
Again, depends on desires. Having a challenge or two along the way always makes for better stories at the end.
6- Option to have a chase truck.
In Patagonia, I would use a chase truck if possible. There are many things that can happen there, far from help so it would be nice to have a chase truck with and experienced mechanic.
7- Finally price. Considering the tour checks all your other boxes.
These tours can be expensive depending on logistics. Where does it begin and end, how nice are the accommodations along the way. How many meals a day are provided, etc.
Somewhere around $1000 USD per day is probably a good guess for many of them.

Hope this helps.

 

[zolo]

Thank you

While I have ridden extensively in Patagonia, your questions leave me asking more questions.
I will answer as best I can. Where have you ridden in Patagonia? Argentina and Chile both? Which was more exciting for you?


1- Time length of the tour. 1 week 2 weeks 3 weeks? Longer?
Patagonia is vast and not the easiest to navigate from lack of roads. Depending on what your interests are you could spend months riding around exploring. Obviously it is vast, my question was if you were to pay for a fly and ride tour what would be the best time length.

2- Number of days actually riding vs "off days" doing other activities in the local area.
Depends on length of tour. For every 5 days riding I like a rest day, especially in trying conditions. Copy.

3- Cultural interaction. Food, music, markets ETC.
Again, depends on your desires, I prefer to absorb as much local culture as I can. It's a main reason I travel. I agree.

4- Brand of motorcycle the tour company uses.
I could care less, as long as it fits the tour well enough. Good to hear, some folks gets stuck on the GS.

5- Route difficulty.
Again, depends on desires. Having a challenge or two along the way always makes for better stories at the end. Copy.

6- Option to have a chase truck.
In Patagonia, I would use a chase truck if possible. There are many things that can happen there, far from help so it would be nice to have a chase truck with and experienced mechanic. I agree.

7- Finally price. Considering the tour checks all your other boxes.
These tours can be expensive depending on logistics. Where does it begin and end, how nice are the accommodations along the way. How many meals a day are provided, etc.
Somewhere around $1000 USD per day is probably a good guess for many of them. Good info.

Hope this helps.

Thank you..

 

[jkam]

I rode from Santiago down to Coyhaique, then crossed over to Argentina and rode down Ruta 40 for awhile. Then back and forth between the two and down to Ushuaia. That took about a month at a decent pace with rest days.
It's all good, The Carratera Austral is amazing, Ruta 40 is being paved in many places but back in 2001 when I was there it was a handful in places with the cross winds and 3 track gravel road.
I think starting in Temuco, Chile, riding the Austral for a week or so and then over to Torres del Paine for another week or so would be a good first taste of Patagonia.

I did ride a GS and at times it was the perfect bike, others ,oh boy what a handful.
But I think something like a DR 650 or other air cooled thumper would be a good choice.


Hope you get to go, it is a trip to remember.

 

[zolo]

I rode from Santiago down to Coyhaique, then crossed over to Argentina and rode down Ruta 40 for awhile. Then back and forth between the two and down to Ushuaia. That took about a month at a decent pace with rest days.
It's all good, The Carratera Austral is amazing, Ruta 40 is being paved in many places but back in 2001 when I was there it was a handful in places with the cross winds and 3 track gravel road.
I think starting in Temuco, Chile, riding the Austral for a week or so and then over to Torres del Paine for another week or so would be a good first taste of Patagonia.

I did ride a GS and at times it was the perfect bike, others ,oh boy what a handful.
But I think something like a DR 650 or other air cooled thumper would be a good choice.


Hope you get to go, it is a trip to remember.

Did you rent the GS in Chile or ship your bike down?
Why starting in Temuco?
Would you recommend taking the Ferry to Torres del Paine or cross into Argentina and then ride down on Ruta 40?

 

[jkam]

I rode my GS down to Panama and shipped it to Ecuador. Back then Colombia was still not safe. I would love to go back and ride Colombia
and Venezuela, I missed them both.

You said a Patagonia trip, so I thought Temuco would be a good starting point and let you avoid the northern part. If you have the time I'd do all of it.
The lake district up by Villarica is very nice, a lot of wealthy from Santiago have homes there so it seemed more expensive but nice.

Ruta 40 has changed much since I was there. Down that far it was pretty desolate in places, fuel was few and far between but it is Ruta 40 and you can see the
Andes from the other side. Again, if you have the time. Sometimes you have to circle around a bit to get to see and do the things you want.
That is what adds time to a trip like this.