FTS700 project

[SPF40plus]

Hello everyone,
I've been reading the threads on ExPo for the last 12 months or so and just registered. Before anything else, I'd like to say thanks to everyone who has posted information here about their projects and experiences, it makes researching a project like this so much easier.

I bought a 1992 FTS 700 the other day, and am now starting the process of setting it up for a trip. The truck has the 6BG1 NA Diesel, and I'm wondering if any of you have experience with installing an after market turbo and intercooler on this engine, and if so, whether it provided the intended benefit. I know there are a couple of members who have done this and have been happy with the result initially, but I'm wondering if this has changed over time, or there have been any issues that have come up.

The intention is to also add 385/65R22.5 wheels and tyres, and am getting the engineering done for this presently. My assumption is that the turbo and claimed 30% increase in torque will help turn these larger tyres.

There will be more questions, but this is the one I'm trying to settle at the moment. Any feedback is welcome.

Thanks
Simon

 

[Ramo]

Hi Simon,
I'm in the process of doing the same truck (1989 FTS 700). I have already done the wheels and tyres 385/65R22.5. Im now building an anti torsion system for the bed and extending it to 5 meters to take a composite box with an over hang to do a lap about this time next year. As for the turbo setup, it seems throug my research that the engine is more than adequately build for it, as the same 6BG1 motor is use in a Kamatsu digger which was turbo'd from the outset. The only ppl I know that do a fitted kit ready to go(but wont supply) is a company called 'Turbo Glide' I think they're in QLD. Still at the early stages, I'm chronicling my journey on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvvJ0TQJtbcbLogQkuI6I2Q

 

[SPF40plus]

Hi Ramo,
Thanks for your reply and the images. Where did you get the rims from and what is the offset? I spoke with Mullins wheels today and they have a 11.75 x 22.5 steel rim with 100mm offset that they said has been supplied for these trucks in the past.

I've spoken to Turbo Glide, they were really helpful and knew what they were talking about. Unfortunately they are in Sydney and I'm north of Brisbane. If it comes to it, I'll drive down (when the border is open again) and get them to do the work. They have a kit with and without an intercooler, and the intercooler isn't crazy extra money.

 

[Ramo]

Hi Simon,
I'm in WA and got mine from this STW Perth (Specialised Tyre & Wheel) They're fitting the to the new fire trucks in Perth . Spoke to a guy called Peter Bloomfield. He was supper helpful 08 9234 5000 or www.stwaustralia.com.au.
They were the most reasonable price for tyres and wheels fitted. I bought 6 to get the best deal. The issue for you will be delivery.

 

[BLC392]

Hi Simon,

Welcome to the club where addictions are started and knowingly supported.

The turbo question I cant answer, as I'm looking at doing this myself. The tyres on the other hand I can provide some info. Be mindful of the Mullins off the shelf wheels and offset, the picture below shows the track difference and the overall width dimensions being greater than 2500mm (this is outside the registration dimensions). These are from Mullins. I had to return these and order new ones with the correct specs. Just because they fit these to lots of trucks doesn't make it right. Get the specs from Mullins, measure your wheel face to wheel face (front and rear axle) and double check and double check. I'll have a look through my paperwork and see if I can find the specs I sent to Mullins for the new wheels.


With the bigger wheels, the speedo will be out, you will be going faster than the speedo is indicating. As part of the engineering, I had to get a speedo calibration and certificate.

Also check www.NHVR.gov.au when doing any work, download the VSGs and VSBs. Engage an approved (insert your State RTA here) engineer before throwing spanners or money at it. Have a plan of what changes/additions and talk with the engineer.

Once again, welcome to the club.

Brendan

 

[SPF40plus]

Ramo, thanks for the link and the extra info, I'll contact STW.

Brendan, I've read your thread with great interest. I can't believe the work you did on the cab. I have been told by Mullins that the custom offset wheels are not approved for on-road use. That being the case, I'm not sure how to overcome this from a regulatory/insurance/engineering point of view. Thanks for the info and image, that is helpful.

 

[BLC392]

Hi Simon,

That's new, never said anything or in writing? I did buy them some years back. Mine do look like the wheels Ramo has. I will look for the paperwork regarding the dimensions I sent them. The ones off the shelf (if these are the same that I was originally sold in the picture) would also be in contravene of registration/insurance etc if they are on the vehicle and the width dimension is greater than 2500mm, unless the vehicle is fitted with over width signage and all the other requirements to be on the road. Get the specs and double check.

These are the ones that were originally provided.

I will say Mullins didn't like that fact that I sent them back and told them the offsets are wrong, the response was the same as you got, 'We never had any problems and we fit these to lots of trucks'. Still doesn't make it right.

Onwards with the project. Start looking for a workshop manual and parts book. These are worth their weight in gold.

Cheers,

Brendan

 

[SPF40plus]

Brendan thanks for the extra info. I have so say I love that kind of response (Mullins) when you call someone on giving you bad information and selling you something because it is convenient for them, not because its the right product for the job.

The rear axle hub to hub is 1790mm (from spec sheet).

So, on the assumption (will need to check this) that the rims Mullins are selling are +100mm offset (made for front wheels) then:

1. 385/2 = 192.5 (zero offset) at back of wheel plate.
2. When used on the rear axle you have to add the thickness of the plate (14mm), so 100 + 14 = 114.
3. 192.5 + 114 = 306.5 (amount of tyre beyond plate).
4. 306.5x 2 = 613 OA + 1790 = 2403 OA width for rear.
5. So this theoretically works for the rear axle (=<2500).
6. I need to measure the front axle to see what the width is...

Yes.... the workshop manual. That one has me stumped presently - I understand it is a 4 folder set (a lot of gold) and there is no electronic version that can be accessed. At least with toyota you can pay them to access their dealer portal. None of the diesel fitters and mechanics I know have a copy.

[Edit]

I have gone back through the information from Mullins and all the reference material I have and can provide the following from my measure up today:

1. Standard front axle width is 2254mm +/- 1mm.
2. Standard rear axle width is 1790mm +/ - 1mm.
3. The Mullins wheels use HDS (Half Double Spacing) rather than offset. So their HDS 100 wheel with 14mm plate is equivalent to a negative 100mm offset when on the rear axle. However it is equivalent to a positive 86mm offset when on the front (you have to deduct the 14mm thickness of the plate from 100).
4. So, fitted to the front axle on the FTS700 with nominal 385/65R22.5 tyres, the overall width of the tyres will be 2467mm. Also, the rear axle will be 2375. This looks like what what your photo shows Brendan - the fronts stick out about 46mm more than the rear.
5. From my calculation, this means that the offset needs to be positive 109mm, which will give an overall width of 2421 front and rear. Rear = 1790 + 2x(123 (offset including 14mm of plate) + 192.5 (other half of tyre thickness) = 2421. Front = 2254 + 167 (which is 2x (192.5 - 109)).
6. This will mean I need to extend the guards out by 25mm.

Rear:

Front

 

[BLC392]

Hi SPF,

The workshop manual I have consists of 3 Volumes. Each volume addresses separate areas of the truck/s, cab/electrics/engine/gearbox/transfer etc. I also managed to get my hands on a Parts Catalog 92-95 FTS/FSS. This also covers a few other variants.


This is the dimensions I sent way back in 2013. The tyres are within the front guards and I have plastic guards on the back, the overall width of the tyres (truck) is within the road requirements and inspected by an engineer. I used the outer most part of the rim, as this was easier when using string lines and straight edges. With a wider rim, the potential for hitting the steering tie rods is possible. I have a pic of the gap between rim and tie rod somewhere.

You might be able to reverse engineer my dimensions to yours to see what the final difference is?

 

[SPF40plus]

Thanks for the information BLC392.
I'll have a look at your dimensions tonight, and post up the comparison.

I still haven't had any luck getting any workshop manuals - apparently there are a bunch of people looking and they seem to be getting them before I even see the ads.

 

[SPF40plus]

So, I have an update on fitting super singles to the FTS700 or FTS12.
I now have Goodride AT557 tyres and Mullins Wheels part number 710-545, which have a 100mm positive offset (when fitted to front axle). When on the rear axle the negative offset is 114mm (100mm plus thickness of rim disk).

The front axle width (flange to flange) is 2248mm.
The rear axle width (flange to flange) is 1770mm.

The result is a front track width of 2048mm and rear track width of 1998mm. Overall width to outside of bulge in the tyre is 2458mm (front) and 2048mm (rear). Our engineer confirmed that the 50mm difference was of no consequence to the approval and does not expect it to cause crabbing or any other problems.

We did need to fit flare extensions to the cab, so the wheels were covered.

I'll provide further comment about the tyres once we have used them in a range of conditions.

 

[SPF40plus]

In other news, I have been trying to buy a 24v central locking system. What a PITA.
Both Mongoose and Rhino used to make them, but have both stopped. I did get a 24v keyless entry kit from Mongoose and the door motors, but the 5 wire door motor and the controller are no longer available.

So, for anyone who wants to do this (without installing a 24v012v converter) it is possible to set up central locking with a single DPDT switch to lock and unlock the doors, and to piggy back the Keyless Entry unit to.

The trick is that there are only two wires on the door motors and they work by applying positive/ground to the wires and then switching the polarity to make the motors work in the other direction. The motors also use a reasonable amount of current, especially when you have four of them. On the 24v system I get between 12amps and 15 amps combined to lock/unlock. After lubricating the lock push rods it is more consistently around 12amps.

I've used three relays to supply the necessary wattage and to allow switching the polarity. Two of them are used to supply the positive charge, and the third is used to provide the ground. You have to use a 5 pin relay with an 87a pin (normally closed/ NC) for the third. If anyone is interested let me know and I can post up the wiring diagram.

 

[SPF40plus]

I did a sound test in the cab a few weeks ago after installing some new waterproof floor material from Carbuilders. At 2000rpm the noise level in the cab was between 78 and 83 dB. WOW that's loud. When you turn the stereo up to hear it over the engine noise you get close to instant permanent hearing loss territory.

The test was done without any cab furniture other than the driver's seat. There is no headliner and the door cards have been replaced with three layer ABS/foam/PCABS cards.

I have since bought some 20mm PE foam and marine carpet and will install it on the rear wall, B-pillars, and roof to see how much difference it makes. I'm aiming to get the noise level down to less than 65dB, so with the stereo on it can be around 70dB. I'll post up the results when its done.