Fuso Canter 4x4 Expedition Plan/build

[wrightjd95]

Hello,

I've always wanted to build an expedition truck, and now with the coronavirus, I've found myself with a lot of free time. Unfortunately for at least until this epidemic is over I can't actually start construction. However, I'm going to use the time to plan every detail in explicitly. I'll use this thread to keep track of my thoughts.

I've chosen the Fuso Canter 4x4 as a base vehicle due to the fact it is very popular in Australia, and a number of companies nearby (Brisbane) specialize in it. EG full suspension upgrades, torsion-free subframes, etc. Please do share your thoughts on this platform.

I'll be creating an assembly in Solidworks to do this. I'll also be sourcing suppliers etc.

Today I decided to start with the concept of the vehicle. Layout etc, get some ideas. Here is a floorplan I came up with. It's not final more of rough design.

• BED: I chose to go with a standard double, which is a size I am quite comfortable with. There will be under bed storage accessed from outside the van, as well as a lift up hinge mechanism for easier access.
• Bathroom: The size of the bed has allowed me to put the bathroom alongside to maximize space within the box. I will even be able to have a separate shower cab to the rest of the bathroom. The toilet will be retractable under the bed.
• Kitchen: One thing I did not add on the drawing was the idea to use a fold-out table that will fold out over the bed from the wall to create an L shaped kitchen when the additional workspace is needed.
• Sitting area: This is an area subject to change. The two forward-facing benches will feature seatbelts. This is also where a swiveling yacht-style table with be located. Additionally, although most trucks use a small crawl-through area I intend to enlarge the opening as much as possible. This is to increase the feeling of space within the box. (I feel masses of space is lost due to this partition) I will have swiveling chair mounts in order to use the front seats as part of the living area. I understand there will be a hump from where the engine/transmission is located. I am still considering the feasibility of this. I may change back to a more conventional design. Below is a truck with a similar idea:

This image gives a better idea of the design. Again it's still a mock-up. I'll do some renderings later to plan the interior design, but here's a quick one to get the idea.










Box construction will be 50mm GRP foam composite panels from StyroMax. They offer an expedition line they're local.

Systems: This is just a rough idea of what the systems will be. I will refine this as the project develops.

Electrical system:

I have experience in installing Victron energy systems. Down to constructing the battery pack and BMS. I will install a huge amount of solar, at least 1KW. I will install at least a 10KWH custom lithium LiPo4 battery, along with a multiplus 3000w inverter/charger combo. This will be coupled with a diesel generator (or AC alternator) that can rapidly charge the batteries when necessary. I will be able to power air conditioning even through the night with the generator off. As well as use electric hobs, microwave, etc, on battery and solar alone. I'm even considering an incinerating toilet (there would be a backup portapotty with this).



Heating and hot water:
One of my main requirements is to have "unlimited" hot water. So I'm going to go with an on-demand water system. I am also planning on fitting wet underfloor heating. Diesel/oil on demand combi boilers are now available which would serve this purpose. I could also have a gas backup.

I am researching this topic, I'm quite interested in renewables. For example, using a thermal battery (such as sunamp). That way I can store massive amounts of excess solar, engine heat, or maybe use a heat pump. There will, of course, be a great deal of redundancy in the systems if I am to introduce a complex system. But I am considering full-time living, so efficiency is important to me.


I will be adding more details shortly!

Thanks!

 

[SkiFreak]

As much as I can understand why you would want a design like this, you may find it a bit of a technical challenge making the pass-thru area as big as this.
I would suggest that you do a bit more research about the physical layout of the Fuso cab, as the floor pan (where the seats are mounted) is approximately 400mm higher than the chassis rails.
All of the pass-thru setups I have seen in both the Fuso and Isuzu have been more of a crawl-thru, as the cab design does not lend itself to a full height pass-thru.
A swivel front seat setup, as nice as it would be, is not really a viable design option.
Just sayin'.....

PS. Welcome to the forum.

 

[gait]

if I'm not mistaken the door to the rear may be better on the left hand (kerb) side in Aus - possibly a legal requirement.

the energy density of sunamp may be lower than Li.

calorifier can be diesel heater, engine heat, and excess solar electric.

depends on purpose how much water to carry and how efficient its use has to be (on demand may use more water, calorifier has dead weight).

the step in the Canter chassis may make swivel seats an engineering nightmare.

have you considered a bed-lift?

 

[SkiFreak]

if I'm not mistaken the door to the rear may be better on the left hand (kerb) side in Aus - possibly a legal requirement.

Yes, in Australia the primary camper entry door must be unencumbered and be on the passenger side or at the rear.

 

[wrightjd95]

Okay, I can mirror the layout to put the door on the other side. It's frustrated that everybody doesn't just drive on the same side, especially when traveling the world. Somebody once said they won't be getting a right-hand drive again. I hear with the unimogs you can quickly switch the driving position.

Does anybody have a cad model I can work with? It would be much easier than finding drawings.

As for the passthrough yeah... I can dream... Probably I will end up with the normal system, but I do like to strive for the best. I may look at doing a bench instead. Then you'd get a nice L shaped sitting area. I'll have to look into the feasibility of all that!

The energy density of sunamp may be lower than Li.

About the same. But allows storage of heat, IE from the engine, heat pumps, etc. Power density is of course very high, allowing thermal battery "powered" showers. Also rapid heat-up of the hab/cab, engine, etc. Cycle life is unlimited.

https://www.sunamp.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/IIES-slide-deck.pdf

They are offing and automotive solutions too. Really quite interesting stuff:

Sunamp | Global - World leading thermal storage technologies

Learn how Sunamp automotive batteries meet vehicle thermal management challenges such as engine and cabin warm-up, EV range extension and payload cooling. Reducing emissions and improving air quality.

www.sunamp.com

It seems to me like the next-gen in calorifier technology. It might be possible to entirely heat the truck through the night on waste heat alone.


Also the bed lift. Well, really I don't mind about the "wasted space" under the bed as still will be all my storage. As for making it a lifting bed just for storage access? Yes, that might be a better idea so I can walk in the under bed area to get stuff.

PS. Welcome to the forum.

Thanks! Oh, and I do appreciate constructive criticism, so no problem!

A little about me: I have a university-level engineering background. I do know how hard things can be but to me, the build is part of the fun! I previously modified a trailer for off-grid adventures, but now I'm looking to go a little further afield. I am looking forwards to the challenge!

Thanks

 

[pugslyyy]

Your layout looks similar to the US-built GXV Adventure Truck

 

[gait]

bed-lift for re-usable space? Never know when visitors may arrive. Just a different way of balancing the compromises while you are still at design stage. The curtains are in front of large rear facing non-openable (dust) window.



I tend to understate.

I had another design criteria / challenge. To keep it under 4495kg so it doesn't need annual inspection in Qld. One less bit of bureaucracy if taken out of Aus.

 

[Wazak]

We are fans of that particular layout as it's what we have in our Renault Master van conversion but ours is considerably narrower than your proposed base vehicle.
Might I suggest that you move the position of the toilet to the very rear of the unit? Will you have a chemical toilet or a separating one you could have a folding door to separate the toilet and shower, have you also considered an external shower point?

Barry

 

[wrightjd95]

Your layout looks similar to the US-built GXV Adventure Truck

View attachment 581982

Oh wow, it does seem quite similar! I hadn't seen this at all, quite funny how it's near-identical. I was considering having the shower/toilet as the entrance but realized I have space for a proper bathroom when I looked at the size of a standard double. I have a swift caravan in England with a similar layout with the corner cut off the bed. I didn't find it to be a problem at all as you don't normally use that section of the bed since your feet are in the center.

bed-lift for re-usable space? Never know when visitors may arrive. Just a different way of balancing the compromises while you are still at design stage. The curtains are in front of large rear facing non-openable (dust) window.

View attachment 582053

I tend to understate.

I had another design criteria / challenge. To keep it under 4495kg so it doesn't need annual inspection in Qld. One less bit of bureaucracy if taken out of Aus.

I do quite like lift bed designs. I'm going to do more research on the passthrough, I'll whip up another cad drawing and see. Having a big sitting area would be nice, but I also want a large boot so I can store various toys, etc. I'm still playing with the design so thanks for the input!

We are fans of that particular layout as it's what we have in our Renault Master van conversion but ours is considerably narrower than your proposed base vehicle.
Might I suggest that you move the position of the toilet to the very rear of the unit? Will you have a chemical toilet or a separating one you could have a folding door to separate the toilet and shower, have you also considered an external shower point?

Barry

So the toilet will be a composting one, so an independent unit. I can put this on rails so it can slide under the bed. Another builder on this forum gave me the idea. Like this:




However, the misses isn't too keen on composting toilets... Chemical she prefers, but dealing with the waste is a problem. She's quite adamant (and willing to foot the bill)! So I'm looking into using an electric incinerating toilet (and perhaps a chemical portapotty as a backup). Something like this:



They consume a great deal of power. 1-2kwh per burn cycle (as opposed to 500wh fan use on a composting). However, I'm quite good with solar and lithium systems. This may be feasible in the very sunny climates I intend to use it in. I intend to install a large capacity system anyway to be able to run the airconditioning. There will be a generator backup too for rare cases. They produce only about a teaspoon (so I hear) of ash per "solid waste use".

More information here if you're interested: https://www.treehugger.com/bathroom-design/hot-poop-cinderella-incinerating-toilet.html

Also yes! I will definitely have an external shower in addition to the normal shower.

As for the shower heating, definitely an on-demand system. For the times when water availability is not an issue (eg hookup/near good water), I want to have glorious indulgent showers! When "rationing" the showers I have an idea in place. I will have two water pumps one a large flow rate capacity and also a low flow rate. I will disable the high flow rate when wanting to save water. This also gives me redundancy.

More on the design process:





Australian Adventure Vehicles provides a good subframe for the canter that I will be using for my build. It also comes with 300L water tanks.

The Fuso canters have a stepped frame near the transmission as you can see here:



It looks like this subframe, from what I can tell, sets the floor level at the height of the upper step. I'll need to confirm this later and get more accurate info about the subframe. I'll need this info to see where the cab floor is going to be relative to my box.

I'm going to make a more serious cad model with accurate measurement. I'll post it here when I'm done!

Cheers everybody!

 

[steve66]

Mate welcome to the forum/club/nut house, You are on the start of a wonderful journey, lots of decisions to make, there are many right ways to achieve the same thing, all comes down to preferences and money!

The Fuso was very popular in Oz, the last 10 years or so the NPS has been much more so, I've written elsewhere here why I chose an NPS, don't dismiss the newer Hino either, Kym at AAV would be the only builder left who is exclusive Fuso, don't get me wrong they still work but others may be better for what you want.

I have the Natures Head composting dunny you pictured, excellent bit of kit, wife has no issues with it, there are some especially good video reviews online from Gonewiththewynns.com, get your wife to look at those.

The secret to good systems that deliver home like comfort, like 24/7 aircon, is having the most efficient design possible, Styomax is ok but there are more insulation efficient panels available but probably doesn't matter a great deal for our climate, modern household appliances are many times more efficient than typical RV gear. And cheaper. Think Induction cooktops, split system aircon, inverter fridges.

Whilst long hot showers are lovely you will soon get tried of dragging around that much water and finding places to dump it. Again lots of ultra efficient shower heads available that still feel like a proper shower, look in the marine world.

Sounds like you have a handle on the power side of things, again just because you have lots of available batt power no point wasting it, install as much solar as you can fit.

Enjoy.

 

[Wyuna]

A diesel heater/hot water combo would be ideal, i prefer travelling in autumn, winter and spring here in aus, and the diesel heater is a luxury that i wouldn't do without, my next build will use a a diesel heater with the hot water option.

The underfloor hot water heating option might be a bit over the top here in Aus, you have time to decide on what works best for you, looking forwards to see what you end up with.

 

[wrightjd95]

Mate welcome to the forum/club/nut house, You are on the start of a wonderful journey, lots of decisions to make, there are many right ways to achieve the same thing, all comes down to preferences and money!

The Fuso was very popular in Oz, the last 10 years or so the NPS has been much more so, I've written elsewhere here why I chose an NPS, don't dismiss the newer Hino either, Kym at AAV would be the only builder left who is exclusive Fuso, don't get me wrong they still work but others may be better for what you want.

I have the Natures Head composting dunny you pictured, excellent bit of kit, wife has no issues with it, there are some especially good video reviews online from Gonewiththewynns.com, get your wife to look at those.

The secret to good systems that deliver home like comfort, like 24/7 aircon, is having the most efficient design possible, Styomax is ok but there are more insulation efficient panels available but probably doesn't matter a great deal for our climate, modern household appliances are many times more efficient than typical RV gear. And cheaper. Think Induction cooktops, split system aircon, inverter fridges.

Whilst long hot showers are lovely you will soon get tried of dragging around that much water and finding places to dump it. Again lots of ultra efficient shower heads available that still feel like a proper shower, look in the marine world.

Sounds like you have a handle on the power side of things, again just because you have lots of available batt power no point wasting it, install as much solar as you can fit.

Enjoy.

Thanks!

I'm deffo open to ideas! I'd like to read about the NPS if you could direct me? I was under the impression that the canter is better than the Hino?

I'll show her it! Thanks!

Yeah, I did think Styromax 50mm is a bit too thin. I'd like 100mm really. Do you know of other good companies?

Also, I don't plan on having a long shower unless it's convenient. Actually, in my trailer, I built a recirculating continuous shower that filtered the water to near drinking standard and sterilized it with UV radiation. I used that in the same way you'd use a bath if you know what I mean. I may do something like that again too if I feel it worth it. If you're interested in the concept check out: https://showerloop.org/

A diesel heater/hot water combo would be ideal, i prefer travelling in autumn, winter and spring here in aus, and the diesel heater is a luxury that i wouldn't do without, my next build will use a a diesel heater with the hot water option.

The underfloor hot water heating option might be a bit over the top here in Aus, you have time to decide on what works best for you, looking forwards to see what you end up with.

I am planning on traveling abroad! So I'll definitely need it. I need to check out realistically how good the diesel/oil on-demand boilers are like, but I hear they're quite good!

Cheers!

 

[gait]

..... I am planning on traveling abroad! ........... I need to check out realistically how good the diesel/oil on-demand boilers are like, but I hear they're quite good!
Cheers!

maybe check out shipping availability (ro-ro, container, etc) and security.

maybe check out time for diesel to establish flame on startup.

I found it useful to have support from the sub-frame to the edges of the house floor. Depends what the floor is made of.

20mm polyurethane foam fibreglass sandwich from Vanglass with 50mm floor and roof with diesel heater good in UK winter.

don't forget to make seat squabs and backs angled for comfort.

 

[steve66]

Hi Again, Here is a recent discussion of the merits of NPS v Fuso, there are lots of pro's and con's so it's a personal choice in the end, I would talk with ATW as they are the only ones I know that build on all 3 so would have a very good handle on the nuisances.

https://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/isuzu-nps-4x4.212247/

The thickness of the panels is only part of the story, different types of insulation material have different ratings. Every mm of space counts so having a thinner but more efficient panel can save space however the better insulation's are more expensive. I have the same panels as Gait.

Cheers

 

[wrightjd95]

Hello,

Sorry I had a busy week!

Base truck

I heard from a lot of people that the Isuzu NPS is also a great platform. They seem to be very similar, and conversion wise the main difference is that the frame has a step to drop down lower on the Canter. The NPS rail just continues straight back, you can see that in the diagrams I'll post below.

As there isn't much change required between the two I will, therefore, proceed with both options in mind. Ultimately the choice will come down to which I can get in better condition for the price. I haven't heard back from ATW about what their opinion is, also the cost of their suspension upgrades so I still have that to bear in mind.

Insulation

A lot of people are asking why I'm opting for such high levels of insulation EG 50mm or 100mm. It isn't because I fear the ability to heat it in cooler climates - in my trailer I had only 20mm insulation and it was toasty warm in -15 conditions. Rather, it is due to efficiency and energy consumption.

1. Cooling - Air conditioning, I plan on full 24 use of air-con where necessary, this needs to be powered by solar and still allow energy for other uses (there will be plenty of uses). High-efficiency insulation massively reduces the required power.
2. Heating - High-efficiency insulation allows passive heating such as using the air conditioning system in heat pump mode. Also much-reduced fuel costs otherwise.

I'll be living for long periods in the truck so running costs are going to be important. Also, I am a fan of green technology. A truck with an all-electric drivetrain with range extender would be ideal, it would make a great off-roader due to the torque and it would be faster too... unfortunately far too expensive and difficult at the moment. If you're interested in the concept check out: https://www.wrightspeed.com/ That Wrightspeed system is the dream powertrain! Maybe one day! Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent here!

I'm going to use the US R-value insulation system as it's easier to understand. The basic spec requires R-15. Passivhaus is R-50. Higher is better of course. Looking at tiny houses (which can be similar sizes to my box) often they are building at R-15 etc.



Polyurethane has an R-value of approx R-5 per inch (25mm). This is what most panel manufacturers use within their composite sandwiches. To be honest, there isn't much of a difference between panel manufacturers in their insulation quality, they're all-around 5.

So for a 50mm wall, I would have a total R-value of R-10... Reasonable but still below spec.
100mm would give R-20 which is above spec but still nowhere near that of Passivhaus...

I have looked into using exotic materials such as Aerogel or even vacuum insulated panels. But unfortunately, both are too costly or difficult to implement. Ideally swapping out the Polyurethane foam sandwich with a composite aerogel would be ideal...



Just look at the thickness difference for the same R-value!



Aerogel has an R-value of R-20 per inch (25mm)! It would be awesome, but I probably won't be able to source it within my budget.

The other major area of heat transfer is ventilation... Ventilation is absolutely necessary, and I like a lot of it. So I'll use a heat recovery system. Surprisingly this is simple, reliable and fairly cheap to integrate.

The concept is to use an air to air heat exchanger between the incoming fresh are, and the outgoing stale heated/cooled air:



This diagram explains the concept (Minus the ground heat exchanger).



This is easily available as either a centralized or decentralized system such as these:





They will require a small circulation fan, but if that fails then the good old fashioned opening of the window is the backup! You could also integrate a HEPA filter, which would be quite beneficial for my pollen sensitive friends.

The next post will be the CAD drawings, I needed to split into two due to attachment limits.

Cheers

James