Future Toyota 4x4s for the US Market
- Thread starter Joash
- Start date
burnoil
Adventurer
Will never happen in ultra-convenience-centric, Starbuck drive-thru, status-by-what-you-drive land. Sorry for all the hyphenated words. Demand is just not there.
The members of this and other similar forums make up a very small segment of the car-buying population. Most people want practicality, fuel economy and reasonable price. Our purpose-driven vehicles rarely fit into those areas.
On edit: Not to mention all the ridiculous environmental nonsense the manufacturers have to go through to get a vehicle worthy enough to enter the US. If the vehicle isn't a big seller...they won't bother with this market.
The members of this and other similar forums make up a very small segment of the car-buying population. Most people want practicality, fuel economy and reasonable price. Our purpose-driven vehicles rarely fit into those areas.
On edit: Not to mention all the ridiculous environmental nonsense the manufacturers have to go through to get a vehicle worthy enough to enter the US. If the vehicle isn't a big seller...they won't bother with this market.
Joash
Adventurer
Sadly, I think you're probably right.
I'd like to see a stripped down version of the Landcruiser sold in the US, but I guess Toyota has little incentive to dilute the brand of their luxury flagship SUV. I'll probably end up with a 4Runner.
Though not strictly an expedition vehicle, I'd also like to see Toyota or Scion come up with an Element-like vehicle.
I'd like to see a stripped down version of the Landcruiser sold in the US, but I guess Toyota has little incentive to dilute the brand of their luxury flagship SUV. I'll probably end up with a 4Runner.
Though not strictly an expedition vehicle, I'd also like to see Toyota or Scion come up with an Element-like vehicle.
DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
As far as the Cruiser, I think we'll be lucky if we keep getting them at all. My guess is there will be a version of a Sequoia with a Land Cruiser badge as the top trim level. If anything the best hope is for a diesel Tacoma and that is a l-o-n-g shot. We'll keep getting 4Runners and maybe the Tacoma and Hilux platforms will converge, we can hope. Although my understanding is that the Hilux isn't the Hilux of our dreams. I seriously would just like a plain Tacoma with a diesel, crank windows, 5-speed. I have the money waiting and am keeping my 25 year old Pickup on life support. Toyota, are you listening? Clearly not.
p nut
butter
They are listening. Just not to you. Nor any of the off-road enthusiasts. They are making what the majority of the public wants, because after all, they are a business that wants to make money. We'll be lucky if they even glance at our direction.
You can see sales stats for vehicle makes and models here
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/p/sales-stats.html
Jeep Wrangler sales average around 12,000 a month in 2012.
Toyota 4Runner, about 4000 a month
Toyota FJ Cruiser, about 1100 a month
Nissan XTerra, about 1400 a month
So there's a market in USA for maybe 18,000 off-road oriented midsize SUVs a month. Not a large number. Honda sells 20,000 CR-Vs a month, for comparison. But it's a large enough market to keep the manufacturers interested. Jeep currently owns about 2/3 of that market.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/p/sales-stats.html
Jeep Wrangler sales average around 12,000 a month in 2012.
Toyota 4Runner, about 4000 a month
Toyota FJ Cruiser, about 1100 a month
Nissan XTerra, about 1400 a month
So there's a market in USA for maybe 18,000 off-road oriented midsize SUVs a month. Not a large number. Honda sells 20,000 CR-Vs a month, for comparison. But it's a large enough market to keep the manufacturers interested. Jeep currently owns about 2/3 of that market.
doug720
Expedition Leader
We who enjoy the out of doors, and particularly off roading, are dinosaurs and headed for extinction in North America!
Land use, emissions rules, computers and electronics are changing what people do for recreation. Ya, there are some that enjoy what WE do, but fewer every year. All out door recreation is shrinking. No way a major manufacturer is going to make or import something along these lines.
When our vehicles and us are gone, I would not expect any similar replacements will be available. All companies want disposable vehicles and products, making something that will last 30 years is an outdated model, and one not likely repeated. I don't think there are going to be many of the vehicles made since the 80's that are going to last anywhere near the time our LandCruisers have, and if they did, I doubt you will find the replacement electronic parts that make them run. On many cars, it's a;ready getting hard to find ECM"S and PCM's computers, many are only available used!
JMHO
Doug
Land use, emissions rules, computers and electronics are changing what people do for recreation. Ya, there are some that enjoy what WE do, but fewer every year. All out door recreation is shrinking. No way a major manufacturer is going to make or import something along these lines.
When our vehicles and us are gone, I would not expect any similar replacements will be available. All companies want disposable vehicles and products, making something that will last 30 years is an outdated model, and one not likely repeated. I don't think there are going to be many of the vehicles made since the 80's that are going to last anywhere near the time our LandCruisers have, and if they did, I doubt you will find the replacement electronic parts that make them run. On many cars, it's a;ready getting hard to find ECM"S and PCM's computers, many are only available used!
JMHO
Doug
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wonderfulremark
Observer
Long wheelbase 4door FJ = 4runner
I don't care about the diesel Tacoma.. well I do but I'd rather see the 70series TLC than Tacomas.
I don't care about the diesel Tacoma.. well I do but I'd rather see the 70series TLC than Tacomas.
Clutch
<---Pass
I am surprised Toyota hasn't made a vehicle to compete against the Wrangler, like a modern FJ40 with 2 and 4 door options think it would sell quite well. Maybe it would pull away too many sales from the 4Runner? Even so, it might pull sales away from Jeep, which could be good for Toyota.
The current Tacoma seems good enough though, seems like some people shun it. It can be ordered with manual windows, manual transmission...sure the knob for the
transfer case is a little odd, but it is a good bare bones vehicle. Swapping in manual hubs really isn't a huge deal. I would pick it over 4Runner, the 4D has more cargo
room if you toss on a bed topper.
Don't know if a diesel will make the Tacoma any better, you can easily get 300,000 miles out of the current gassers. Not sure the up charge of the diesel engine plus the higher cost of the fuel itself will make financial sense. Taco's are already over $30K...with a diesel it will push it closer to $40K. You spend that now with a used Taco and have Diesel Toys toss in a oil burner for you, and I don't see very many of those running around. I think DT maybe has done 1 maybe 2 swaps into a 2nd Gen Taco (correct me if I am wrong) You always hear from people "if Toyota would toss in a diesel in the Tacoma, I would run out and buy one tomorrow..." Well those people can do that today, and they aren't..so I don't see those people buying a brand new diesel Tacoma even if Toyota did offer it.
Mrknowitall
Adventurer
From what I hear (and TEMA employees are tight lipped, even when you thin their blood out a little) the future for Toyota BOF SUV is dim in America. We may lose the Land Cruiser as a breand (like Canada did years ago) and the 4Runner and Sequoia are uncertain- if middle east sales of the Sequoia weren't so hot, it might already be gone. THe 4R is also mainly a US model, and with declining numbers, it may go away, too. The FJCruiser is still a GRJ120 hold-over, so it could wind up on the chopping block. Fuel prices have already marginalized passenger vehicles that get mid to high teen on the highway. CAFE requirements will finish them off. Too bad-so sad.
DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Not everyone can get that DT swap registered. I don't have $30K or $40K to throw away on a farm truck. You can get manual windows and manual locks in a Tacoma? I honestly was not aware of that but the sales guy could have been mistaken.
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Clutch
<---Pass
True, but if there is a will there is a way. I know I am going against the grain when I say I don't think a diesel Tacoma will sell, even if they showed up "tomorrow" at the dealer. If they did, you'll hear guys saying...well in 10 years I'll buy one. The guys who want a diesel Tacoma aren't willing to pay for it, well new that is.
Have a hunch that we will see a turboed gasser before a glimmer of an oil burner. Say 25ish mpg's, 300HP/350TQ...yeah that will happen right!?
Not sure about the door locks. I have personally seen manual window cranks in a new base model Tacoma. And when do you, Dave in Denver, the EXPO'S resident Toyota Savant... trust a sales guy? :ylsmoke:
Have power windows in mine which has 265,000 miles on the odo...no failure yet, I would say they are a non-issue, sure is nice not having
to stretch and lean over to roll down the passenger window, like my last two Toyotas. Can't say I miss manual window cranks.
The thing that really bugs me, that there is no manual trans in the Tundra (or any fullsize gas truck that is) I would be all over a Tundra if it had a manny.
My Tacoma is getting ready to be retired (aiming for the 300,00 mile mark)...real curious what will be out there for 2014. Do I stay with a Tacoma, get a Tundra....even looking at F250's....not sure I could trust an F250 to last me 15-20 years though.
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DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Yeah, there's probably some loophole or whatever to avoid title and inspection issues. Guys get all sorts of things licensed. I'm lazy and find the DMV unpleasant enough as it is without trying to go against the grain. Trucks are tools that I prefer to spend minimum effort for maximum gain. Otherwise I wouldn't drive a basically stock 1991 truck.
Salesmen. Ugh. But you gotta deal with them when you are browsing and I was trying to find reasons for him to give up me. "Oh, I don't like power windows." "OK, I'll have to check if that could be special ordered. I don't think I've ever sold one without them."
I hate power windows and locks. I don't like having to dig out the keys to roll up windows, for example. Goodness forbid your duo buddy is out for his laps at 12 Hours of Mesa Verde when a storm rolls through and you are powerless to keep his truck cab from filling with rain since you have no idea where he left his keys...
Salesmen. Ugh. But you gotta deal with them when you are browsing and I was trying to find reasons for him to give up me. "Oh, I don't like power windows." "OK, I'll have to check if that could be special ordered. I don't think I've ever sold one without them."
I hate power windows and locks. I don't like having to dig out the keys to roll up windows, for example. Goodness forbid your duo buddy is out for his laps at 12 Hours of Mesa Verde when a storm rolls through and you are powerless to keep his truck cab from filling with rain since you have no idea where he left his keys...
2025 deleted member
Well-known member
I think I read on autoweek about a direct injection 4.0 producing over 300hp and better than current fuel numbers for upcoming tacomas and tundras.