Goal zero, or other comparable systems

[Grassland]

Almost every year, my wife and I take a 2-3 week trip with our ******** box pop up camper. We almost exclusively get non power camp sites in campgrounds. We have been using a 90 watt Coleman solar panel w/ its charge controller to help keep the camper battery topped up. (All interior lights and porch light are LED, other load is propane/CO detector, and the ceiling fan)

We have been charging the phones/devices in the truck, but I only have 1 USB outlet, and one 12 volt socket, and the USB doesn't give much juice.

Was interested in a portable power supply that can be recharged by several methods, one being solar, that is reasonably light, and large enough to do a good amount of charges/support larger loads if needed (Like Yeti lithium 400).
Was looking at the booster pack/power packs you see at automotive stores like Canadian tire, but they have ************ compressors built in, and poor reviews. (am looking at a Viair 400 as dedicated compressor anyways)
Don't want to invest money in the camper, or spend much on fixed items on the truck. Whatever we get, id like to have it a good many years and have good quality, and be able to bring it on the next truck and use with the next trailer etc.

What should I be looking at, suggestions welcome.

 

[Superduty]

I'm not the expert here by any means. However from reading this forum, I think the advice you will get is to build your own power supply in a battery box. This seems to be the most bang for your buck. If you can't be bothered with it or you have more money than time then I presume the yeti is a good option.

Read some of the other threads about building your own power supply. You don't seem to have a lot of demand of power, I would think a group 31 battery would meet your needs.

I'm sure the experts will chime in.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[Gerlando]

I have a Yeti 1000 lithium, purchased open box on Goal Zeros site for about $700. It’ll run my fridge for 5 days straight on its own but I charge it off my rigs 12v socket @5A while driving (haven’t bought a solar panel yet). It has a 1500w pure sine inverter so I can run pretty much anything from it. It may be cheaper to DIY but from what I’ve seen you won’t save much and the design and build quality of the Yeti is top notch. Well worth it, besides the fridge it’s my favorite piece of gear.

 

[ArtfulDodger]

We've also been pleased with the Yeti 1000 system by Goal Zero. I've read several posts disparaging the system for its cost. I'm no expert, but I think a good case can be made for it, even if you pay full price for a new (not open box) one.

When I bought it, my thinking went like this: In a 40 pound package I could get 1000 Watt-hours of energy, a built-in solar charge controller, a built-in AC charger, a built-in DC charger, a 1500 Watt inverter, and multiple high-current USB ports. I wouldn't get all that in a package anywhere near 40 pounds with a lead-acid or AGM based system. Also, it seems I wouldn't get nearly as many deep discharge cycles. (I'm sketchy on the details of this last part, so take it with a grain of salt.)

I could build my own lithium battery system with a comparable total weight and cycle capacity, but I don't think I could do it much cheaper. After some googling, it looked like lithium RV batteries run about a dollar per Watt-hour, a little cheaper if you buy very large batteries. I would still need to buy an AC charger, DC charger, solar charge controller, inverter, battery monitor, USB ports, and a box to hold everything.

I also like that I can get expansion kits with a breakout box and additional batteries to power a few circuits in my house if the power goes out. This feature probably doesn't interest most people, but ours goes out frequently enough that it would be worth it. The Yeti can be working for me even when I'm not using it for camping.

The biggest drawback I have found so far is that the charging rate is pretty slow. You can add options to speed up each of the charging modes (AC, DC, and solar), but these expansions aren't cheap.

 

[67cj5]

I Think that the Goal Zero units are all a waste of money because they charge anything from £249 to £3499 which works out to be around $4338.00 USD, For that kind of money I can buy 43 110Ah Deep cycle Batteries, Giving a total of 56,760 Wh to play with,, Nobody in their right mind would pay that for a battery pack and if they do their family should have them committed.

I have 3 DC to AC inverters ranging from 300w to 1000w/2500w So the Zero Yeti's are pointless, For the cost of $372.00 USD I can have over 4140Wh Compared to $4338.00 for 3075wh,

The figures tell me that the Goal Zero Yeti's are nothing but a bragging rights Item, For $4338.00 I can build a complete off grid system big enough to run a 2 or 3 bedroom Cabin, And for a 3rd of the cost I can build a 14880wh battery system, To me the whole Idea of spending nearly 3500 bucks on nothing more that a hi tech battery is stupid.

Best option it to buy a 135Ah battery and fit it in to a Box that will give a person 1620Wh to play with and there is no risk of Divorce.

 

[shade]

Store bought power packs (I hate the "generator" label being used by some sellers) serve a purpose. Even if they cost more than a DIY solution for the power provided, some people don't want to mess with that option. Contrary to the contrarian, buying one is not a symptom of mental illness or an impending divorce.

Was interested in a portable power supply that can be recharged by several methods, one being solar, that is reasonably light, and large enough to do a good amount of charges/support larger loads if needed

You'll need to define the "larger loads" to buy accordingly. There's a big difference between running a good 12VDC fridge and a microwave oven.

 

[Grassland]

Store bought power packs (I hate the "generator" label being used by some sellers) serve a purpose. Even if they cost more than a DIY solution for the power provided, some people don't want to mess with that option. Contrary to the contrarian, buying one is not a symptom of mental illness or an impending divorce.



You'll need to define the "larger loads" to buy accordingly. There's a big difference between running a good 12VDC fridge and a microwave oven.

Not sure what future larger loads would be, but have NO interest in a microwave or AC.
A good 12 VDC fridge in the next camper, but ideally I'd have a larger or multiple batteries dedicated to the trailer and solar dedicated to the trailer.

I'm in Canada where everything seems to cost significantly more, so would have to order the components online to keep a DIY kit cheaper. I also don't have lots of time. I worked 7 weeks straight, 12-14 hour days this May/June and had one day off in that stretch. Even now that I'm taking weekends off, I'm still working 55-60 hours a week.

While I am very comfortable with AC voltage and equipment, I'm not great at electrical soldering, not am I very familiar with a lot of the electronic equipment and DC stuff involved here, though I could certainly learn it if I had some time.

 

[Bear in NM]

While I do not have a GZ Yeti, I have more than a bunch of other gear from them, and have built one portable power pack, installed a couple of dual battery systems, and two vehicle solar systems. Pretty much starting out a couple of years ago, at what sounds to be your comfort level with DC. Most of what I have learned has been gathered here, and spending a LOT of time on the web.

With that.....If I could afford a Yeti, and you place any kind of premium on my limited spare time, I would not think twice about buying one. I do not blink about the price of GZ gear. But I do get frustrated a bit by their proprietary connectors and cabling. Be warned going in, they are indeed proud of their products. But, I disagree with an earlier point. Their stuff is quality, not just a sticker and bragging rights. And it kinda sorta needs to be, because when buying a turn key unit with all the goodies, you limit yourself to one thing going bad, and taking the whole unit down. Without the skillset learned to troubleshoot or repair. But you know what, if my rig pitches a tranny on the trail, I am going to need a tow and a transmission repair shop. If you get my drift.

You do not need to solder to put one of these together. But, you will need good crimping tools. I knew I was going down this deep dark rabbit hole, so I made the decision to invest in tools. If you are starting out with a 12v tester light, and 19.95 dollar Radio shack volt meter (with corroded terminals) like I did, and you want to not burn something to the ground, you will need to invest in something more than side cutters, pliers and a few rolls of electrical tape. Those proper glue impregnated heat shrink sticks for good water proof connections, you are not shrinking those with a bic lighter. Do you own a heat gun? My point being that building my own was worth the investment of time and tools, to me. I wanted to learn, and have the skillset and tools. For a one off, it would have been way cheaper to buy a turn key unit. Even a GZ unit.

I might also suggest doing a little "light" reading on lithium. You cannot charge when the batteries are below freezing. And extreme hot and cold can be taxing on them. I sorted through all of that that here on this board. You noted being in Canada, so I thought I might mention that. As much as I would love the weight savings, and would be willing to pay the price, I decided it was not the best fit for me. I do have a new lithium driven saw, weed wacker and e-bike that I am toting to the hinterlands, but my main house battery needs to be a little more weather forgiving. Would be the same if I were running my dog and pony camping show from a "solar generator".

Craig

 

[Grassland]

While I do not have a GZ Yeti, I have more than a bunch of other gear from them, and have built one portable power pack, installed a couple of dual battery systems, and two vehicle solar systems. Pretty much starting out a couple of years ago, at what sounds to be your comfort level with DC. Most of what I have learned has been gathered here, and spending a LOT of time on the web.

With that.....If I could afford a Yeti, and you place any kind of premium on my limited spare time, I would not think twice about buying one. I do not blink about the price of GZ gear. But I do get frustrated a bit by their proprietary connectors and cabling. Be warned going in, they are indeed proud of their products. But, I disagree with an earlier point. Their stuff is quality, not just a sticker and bragging rights. And it kinda sorta needs to be, because when buying a turn key unit with all the goodies, you limit yourself to one thing going bad, and taking the whole unit down. Without the skillset learned to troubleshoot or repair. But you know what, if my rig pitches a tranny on the trail, I am going to need a tow and a transmission repair shop. If you get my drift.

You do not need to solder to put one of these together. But, you will need good crimping tools. I knew I was going down this deep dark rabbit hole, so I made the decision to invest in tools. If you are starting out with a 12v tester light, and 19.95 dollar Radio shack volt meter (with corroded terminals) like I did, and you want to not burn something to the ground, you will need to invest in something more than side cutters, pliers and a few rolls of electrical tape. Those proper glue impregnated heat shrink sticks for good water proof connections, you are not shrinking those with a bic lighter. Do you own a heat gun? My point being that building my own was worth the investment of time and tools, to me. I wanted to learn, and have the skillset and tools. For a one off, it would have been way cheaper to buy a turn key unit. Even a GZ unit.

I might also suggest doing a little "light" reading on lithium. You cannot charge when the batteries are below freezing. And extreme hot and cold can be taxing on them. I sorted through all of that that here on this board. You noted being in Canada, so I thought I might mention that. As much as I would love the weight savings, and would be willing to pay the price, I decided it was not the best fit for me. I do have a new lithium driven saw, weed wacker and e-bike that I am toting to the hinterlands, but my main house battery needs to be a little more weather forgiving. Would be the same if I were running my dog and pony camping show from a "solar generator".

Craig

I am a residential/light commercial HVAC mechanic. I have a good amount of tools. Good digital multi-meter, typical hand tools like side cutter, wire stripper and crimper etc. Don't have a heat gun but could borrow my Dads or father in laws. Or buy one and write it off. Have some heat shrink, butte connectors, ring connectors etc but all for 12-10 AWG stranded, nothing larger. Could always buy appropriate connectors.
I'd like the lighter weight a portability of lithium tech, but am not wholly opposed to flooded lead acid batteries if its going to do the job well and reliably. Just my wife likely won't be able to move it on her own. My experience with batteries is typical vehicle batteries and those things go like every 5 years. Mind you its minus 33 celcius winter design temperature here and plus 28 for summer, so that's not doing batteries any favour.

 

[Grassland]

I Think that the Goal Zero units are all a waste of money because they charge anything from £249 to £3499 which works out to be around $4338.00 USD, For that kind of money I can buy 43 110Ah Deep cycle Batteries, Giving a total of 56,760 Wh to play with,, Nobody in their right mind would pay that for a battery pack and if they do their family should have them committed.

I have 3 DC to AC inverters ranging from 300w to 1000w/2500w So the Zero Yeti's are pointless, For the cost of $372.00 USD I can have over 4140Wh Compared to $4338.00 for 3075wh,

The figures tell me that the Goal Zero Yeti's are nothing but a bragging rights Item, For $4338.00 I can build a complete off grid system big enough to run a 2 or 3 bedroom Cabin, And for a 3rd of the cost I can build a 14880wh battery system, To me the whole Idea of spending nearly 3500 bucks on nothing more that a hi tech battery is stupid.

Best option it to buy a 135Ah battery and fit it in to a Box that will give a person 1620Wh to play with and there is no risk of Divorce.

Isn't a 135 AH battery thats FLA like 40+ KG?

 

[67cj5]

Isn't a 135 AH battery thats FLA like 40+ KG?

Some where around that I also have a choice of 85Ah weighing at 17.3kgs or some 115Ah weighing in at about 23.7kgs, But with a total load capacity of around 3600Kgs Battery weight is not an Issue,

Regardless of the weight I see the GZ Yeti Packs priced at about 5 times their true value, If I won the lottery I still would not buy one,

Another part of the sales pitch is how long their Batteries last, Again My Last FLA Deep Cycle battery Lasted almost 10 Years and it only die because I let it sit and starting the vehicle every couple of weeks to run a compressor to inflate 2 Tyres that were leaking Air So it never got fully charged and it would of lasted a couple more years If I had kept an eye on it's state of charge.

 

[Grassland]

Some where around that I also have a choice of 85Ah weighing at 17.3kgs or some 115Ah weighing in at about 23.7kgs, But with a total load capacity of around 3600Kgs Battery weight is not an Issue,

Regardless of the weight I see the GZ Yeti Packs priced at about 5 times their true value, If I won the lottery I still would not buy one,

Another part of the sales pitch is how long their Batteries last, Again My Last FLA Deep Cycle battery Lasted almost 10 Years and it only die because I let it sit and starting the vehicle every couple of weeks to run a compressor to inflate 2 Tyres that were leaking Air So it never got fully charged and it would of lasted a couple more years If I had kept an eye on it's state of charge.

I should look at efficiency more then. I feel our camper battery is 100 AH or so, ill go check, but the thing plummets due to either converter draw or the propane detector thats on all the time. The lights don't even get 1.5 hours of use per day, and unless its super hot without a breeze, we dont run the ceiling/roof top fan. I should check to see what other draws there are. So I have been leery of going to a small battery power pack thinking it will be too low too soon.

Wow what are you driving that has 3600 kg load rating?

 

[67cj5]

I should look at efficiency more then. I feel our camper battery is 100 AH or so, ill go check, but the thing plummets due to either converter draw or the propane detector thats on all the time. The lights don't even get 1.5 hours of use per day, and unless its super hot without a breeze, we dont run the ceiling/roof top fan. I should check to see what other draws there are. So I have been leery of going to a small battery power pack thinking it will be too low too soon.

Wow what are you driving that has 3600 kg load rating?

What Type of lights are you using ? Do you have a TV in there? My lights use a total of 7.3 watts My Portable TV uses between 6.6 to 8.3 Watts, If your lights are only lasting 1.5 hours then either your battery is on it's way out or you have a parasitic Drain somewhere ?

If you need to upgrade your battery bank and have a good system Just buy some good quality AGM Batteries with enough AH to last 3-4 or 5 days, I personally have 3 X 115Ah FLA Deep Cycle batteries, That gives me 4140 Wh add a couple of solar panels they would last for ever,

If you have the storage space then you could build 2 banks of 2 batteries each with it's own solar panel or panels and while you are using one the other can be charged by solar and if the 1st bank starts to need topping up then just switch over to the other bank,

2 banks of 70 or 85Ah batteries would workout fine or if you have the space then use 4 bigger 100/120Ah batteries,

For the cost of those GZ Yeti's you can build a huge battery system complete with Solar Panels and a Wind Generator and a top of the line Victron Charge Controller.

 

[ArtfulDodger]

At the risk of having my sanity and motives questioned again, I'll point out that everything is a tradeoff.

It is certainly the case that flooded lead acid batteries are vastly cheaper than lithium for the same number of Watt-hours. However, they are also roughly twice as heavy, which is not great if you want a portable solution. It is trivial to move products like the GZ Yeti anywhere you want power.

More significantly, it is not recommended to use FLA batteries in comfined spaces due to gassing. So, you probably wouldn't want to use a home-brew FLA solution in a tent, inside an automobile, or inside the house. Some people don't have that need. I find it extremely convenient.

AGM batteries are often suggested as an alternative to FLA for indoor use. They tend to tolerate more rugged conditions, will not leak, require no maintenance, and do not require ventilation. They cost roughly twice as much as FLA batteries for the same number of Watt-hours. They are still about 1/5 the cost of lithium for the same energy storage.

However, here is the kicker as I see it. You shouldn't plan on using all of the energy stored in your FLA or AGM battery. Deep cycling those technologies will dramatically shorten their lifespan. I believe that most energy system designers budget for a typical 50% utilization of their total capacity. This means that you would need a total of 2000 Watt-hours of FLA or AGM storage to deliver an effective 1000 Watt-hours, long term. The lithium batteries in units like the GZ Yeti and similar devices do not have this issue. (Yes, drawing them all the way down to zero will damage them, but part of what you're paying for with these devices is a battery management system that prevents this.)

Bottom line, for 1000 Watt-hours of portable energy that you can use in a confined space, you can spend roughly $1000 on a lithium battery that weighs less than 25 pounds or roughly $450 for two AGM batteries weighing nearly 50 pounds each. Plus, you'll get roughly 4 times the number of charge-discharge cycles from the lithium battery.

Sure, it's expensive, but it is certainly not crazy. In fact, it is quite reasonable. If you can mount the batteries outside and you don't need portability, a home-brew FLA setup is probably a wise choice. If portability is important, products like the GZ Yeti are great solutions.

 

[67cj5]

After my first post on this thread I did a search for similar products and you can buy Lithium type portable units for a quarter of the price of the GZ, The concept of Any GZ "Type" products is a good thing But the Issue I have GZ is that they are Sooooo Expensive when there is just no need for them to be, Not while there are so many other Lithium Packs out there for a quarter of the price, There are pages and pages of them out there and some of them are a 10th of the price,