Helton Hot Water and Shower System - POS

[bossman429]

So I thought I would do a little review on the Helton Hot water / shower system i purchased 2 yrs ago from Cruiseroutfitters. In short, the system is crap and a total waste of money. Knowing what i know now i would have put together my own system and components for a fraction of the $345 cost i incurred, plus another $100 in items you need to source to install on a vehicle.

Now this is not a dig at cruiser outfitters, but i sure as hell wouldn't sell a product like this myself.

Lets start with what you get:

1. a water to water heat exchanger, which to be honest i have had no issues with. I dont get the full 40* per pass increase advertised but it not BAD. This is the only thing Im happy with.
2. You get a piece of crap camping shower and 12V pump. This thing goes for $25 on amazon and is the biggest waste of plastic I have ever seen. Best part is a replacement pump can be bought from CruiserOutfitters for $45 (1.5x the price on amazon) More on this later http://www.amazon.com/Hotouch-Battery-Powered-Handheld-Portable/dp/B013B9AW8Q/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1442430949&sr=8-7&keywords=camp+shower+12v
3. You get a couple bucks worth of T connectors, a $2 bracket and some padded P straps.

AND THATS IT!!!!

You will need to purchase quick connectors if you want to use them (not sure how else you would utilize the system), various legnths of radiator hose in various sizes and hose clamps. All in all I spent ~$100 in ancillary items i needed to install the system

Now for the POS pump and shower you get. 1. you cant use this on the system as is, you have to get a quick connector and a longer legnth of PVC hose to connect it to the heat exchanger. Also - i used the system MAYBE 10 times since i bought it. On a recent trip to Maine, after a long day of hiking and really looking forward to this shower, i go to use it and nothing! Doesnt work, at all. I heard it click on once or twice then die completely. In the AM i inspect it and this is what I found:



I guess this submersible pump isn't in any way shape or form really submersible. A few times, and it just sits in water and corrodes. Reading reviews on amazon and alot of people have this same issue after 8-10 uses.

Im lookin for a better solution, and may go with a permantly installed shur-flo pump or a different camping style pump, but for a $345 system to rely on such a crappy component really pisses me off. best part is it isn't under warranty so C/O wont replace it. Cant people make quality product anymore!!!

 

[Maxcustody]

I just ordered one of these. It is being delivered today.....
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Mr-H...=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=04064181&rid=20

Sent from my Roof Top Tent

 

[bossman429]

Cool, but way more than i need. Heating the water isn't the issue at this point, its pumping it reliably

I'm going to try a 12V plug in Zodi pump, and see if i have better luck with that. Its abut $50 and can easily be set up to work with the rest of the system I have installed.

If that doesn't work I'm going to a shur-flo permanently installed pump.

 

[zelatore]

Shurflo; Jabsco; Johnson; Whale ... I use all of them in the marine world and I'm sure you'd find something more than up to your needs.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I see you followed through with your threat if we wouldn't cover the expired manufactures warranty

"Now before i go on expo portal, pirate, disco web, d90 and every other forum you guys cater to and do a review maybe you could reconsider..."

Long and short the pump you bought is nearly 3 years old (correct me if I'm wrong here) with an advertised 1 year manufacture supported warranty (from date of your purchase). We did have some noted issues with those pumps and now use a totally different pump manufacture (and have for 9-10 months or so). The issues with those pumps was most often when stored before the lines or housing were dry/empty, the rotor shaft would rust, wipe out the seal and allow water into the DC motor on subsequent uses, when stored dry we had few issues. I have one from the same batch as yours in my 100 Series still in use. We warrantied each and every pump through and much past the manufactures 1-year date as long as we had stock on the replacements sent by the manufacture. Once those were exhausted, we started offering the new manufactures pump offering and moved forward. Unfortunately we have zero recourse with the old manufacture, we haven't placed an order with them in over 2 years and they sent us enough warranty units to cover as many as we could imagine having problems. While it unfortunately won't solve your woe, we were able to replace all of the other failure situations during that time frame.

"You get a couple bucks worth of T connectors, a $2 bracket and some padded P straps."

Link to the couple buck option? We use full brass ones that are more like $5/each. The bumper bracket alone from Helton is ~$10. Go buy aluminum angle, it's not $2 by the time it's cut, drilled, deburred and set up with 4 more brass fittings. For reals, I'd love a link... might be worth sourcing more components local versus Aus. We are

I had hoped to work something out with you, my guys updated me on your email and stance on the subject upon my return yesterday. To be fair they were absolutely doing their job, they are 100% empowered, encouraged and required to solve all warranty issues on our products and work with manufactures on the customers behalf where the warranty is out of our hands. Bryce was willing to offer you the new pump at a discount, I understand you were not comfortable with that and with your wants it simply came down to me being available to resolve. I've been out of the office for the last 1.5 weeks with a customer event (CruiserFest) and couldn't respond on your timeline I'm assuming. I'm am absolutely sorry to hear you are disappointed with the system. We don't ever like hearing a customer isn't satisfied with a part we make, import or retail, and it absolutely shapes our buying and offerings. I'll certainly pass your concerns along to the manufacture and we'll continue to improve and refine the kits as we see the want, need and opportunity. Good luck with which ever option you find down the road.

 

[bossman429]

I see you followed through with your threat if we wouldn't cover the expired manufactures warranty

"Now before i go on expo portal, pirate, disco web, d90 and every other forum you guys cater to and do a review maybe you could reconsider..."

Yup, bc i think if people are about to spend $350 on a system they should know that its a POS. Do you want me to post the whole email? This was the last straw, not the first email. And again - i think I made it pretty clear my issue was not with your company but with the system from the manufacturer, although from the post below I'm starting to believe that you put the kit together yourselves now and just buy the heat exchanger from Helton, but i'll let you chime in on that.

Long and short the pump you bought is nearly 3 years old (correct me if I'm wrong here)

You are wrong here. I installed the pump in July of '13, and bought it shortly before that. i didn't even own my 100 series until April of 13 so 3 yrs is BS., it was just past 2 yrs old as i stated. Heres a link to my build thread i posted right after i installed it (you even chimed in on the post)

http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...s-Build-Thread/page2?highlight=bossman429+100

with an advertised 1 year manufacture supported warranty (from date of your purchase). We did have some noted issues with those pumps and now use a totally different pump manufacture (and have for 9-10 months or so). The issues with those pumps was most often when stored before the lines or housing were dry/empty, the rotor shaft would rust, wipe out the seal and allow water into the DC motor on subsequent uses, when stored dry we had few issues. I have one from the same batch as yours in my 100 Series still in use. We warrantied each and every pump through and much past the manufactures 1-year date as long as we had stock on the replacements sent by the manufacture. Once those were exhausted, we started offering the new manufactures pump offering and moved forward. Unfortunately we have zero recourse with the old manufacture, we haven't placed an order with them in over 2 years and they sent us enough warranty units to cover as many as we could imagine having problems. While it unfortunately won't solve your woe, we were able to replace all of the other failure situations during that time frame.

Now listen, i worked for a manufacturer for 8 years, and am a sales rep for many manufacturers now. I get it that the warranty period is over and the "per policy" solution is past us. However, as a sales person there are times when even though the "policy" says one thing, you make a concession to do what is right by YOUR customers. You admit to knowing about an issue with these pumps, but hide behind the 1 yr policy to not fix it. The pump cost $25 on amazon in retail, id imagine your paying close to that or less. Wouldn't you think to make a customer happy and stand behind the product you sell you would make a $25 concession to get me a new pump? My initial inquiry was Sept 7th, I was told by Bryce you'd get back to me on Monday. Funny how you didn't respond to my emails but a thread on Expo got your attention? Are you worried more about customer satisfaction or saving face?

The rotor shaft is actually the one thing on that pump that isn't rusted. As for storing dry or wet, i did my best to dry it each time but its a submersible pump, there is no way to get 100% of the water out before putting away after use. I ran it for a second dry after use and hung it for a bit to let any water drip out. We both agree on this those pumps are garbage. Why they failed doesn't matter, the fact is they failed often. Mine being another example

"You get a couple bucks worth of T connectors, a $2 bracket and some padded P straps."

Link to the couple buck option? We use full brass ones that are more like $5/each. The bumper bracket alone from Helton is ~$10. Go buy aluminum angle, it's not $2 by the time it's cut, drilled, deburred and set up with 4 more brass fittings. For reals, I'd love a link... might be worth sourcing more components local versus Aus. We are

Aluminum angle CLICK - First hit on Google- 2x1 1/8" - $3/ft, you can make what 3-4 brackets in a foot? Thats a dollar each? Drilling 4 holes and running a file past them? whats that take 2-3 minutes? At $15-$20/hr (which I'm sure is generous) is $1.50 in labor. Ok so the aluminum bracket is less than $5

Barbed fittings - First Google hit 5/8 Tee is $10, don't remember what size the 100 series is ( i think its 3/4 x 5/8 so maybe call it $12 for that from any plumbing supply) So theres $20-24 for brass fittings, so far we're up to $25-$29 in ancillary equipment....

what else comes with it? (2) p-straps @ 4-5 each? So all in with the pump your at $50. Now I get it you gotta make a buck but really? The kit isn't worth $350, not even close especially when a major component fails at 8-10 uses!

I had hoped to work something out with you, my guys updated me on your email and stance on the subject upon my return yesterday. To be fair they were absolutely doing their job, they are 100% empowered, encouraged and required to solve all warranty issues on our products and work with manufactures on the customers behalf where the warranty is out of our hands. Bryce was willing to offer you the new pump at a discount, I understand you were not comfortable with that and with your wants it simply came down to me being available to resolve. I've been out of the office for the last 1.5 weeks with a customer event (CruiserFest) and couldn't respond on your timeline I'm assuming. I'm am absolutely sorry to hear you are disappointed with the system. We don't ever like hearing a customer isn't satisfied with a part we make, import or retail, and it absolutely shapes our buying and offerings. I'll certainly pass your concerns along to the manufacture and we'll continue to improve and refine the kits as we see the want, need and opportunity. Good luck with which ever option you find down the road.

The discount he offered me was still a higher price point than what i could buy it for new myself through normal retail channels. he never mentioned it being a different pump, despite me sending him a link to where i could buy the old style for $25. This may have simply been mis-communication between us. Can you send me a manufacturer spec sheet or a link to the new pump you guys are supplying now? Its not like i was trying to scam you guys out of a second pump, i offered to send it back/send pictures if you'd like.

Again - as i said originally and will continue to say - this isn't a dig at Cruiser outfitters. Its a dig on the system that you (and others probably do to) sell. IM just letting other members know that if i could do it again, i would have put together my own system at a lower cost with higher quality components. If you want to send me a new [different] pump i'll be happy as a clam since at this point, that is the only item that failed. The other issues (in regards to cost of the system) really is hind sight and i can't expect you to make up for MY buyers remorse. You sent me what you said you would, i take full ownership in not fully understanding the cost of the additional components i needed to buy for the install as well as not researching what it would have cost me to do it on my own.

 

[freshlikesushi]

The irony of your entire post, is if this isnt a dig at the shop, then why even mention them? Why not say that you got it from "a shop" and then say the brand of the item. You obviously have a grudge, and threatening whining on forums is pretty petty and childish. The part is two years old. **** happens. live learn and move on. im sure that it was used, then put up wet, or stored in a humid environment or a host of other issues that noone can control or know except your obviously inflamed and possibly skewed view. Relax, be patient, or just order a new part, leave your review of the part you had an issue with and leave the retailer out of it. 1 year warranty is just that. You are lucky he even entertained working with you. Most shops wont do anything to try and help with an out of warranty item, regardless of how many times you used it

 

[bossman429]

I mentioned i bought it from him bc he puts the kit together to some degree. Also he is on here pushing these kits (to some degree) and I think it's fair to give an honest review of the product. Also while I may have made a "threat" privately I re-thought that and didn't really follow through and throw CO under the bus. That's why I said I'm unhappy with the product not the retailer in my actual post and didn't post it anywhere else other than here where I first saw the product myself.

Was the pump dried out 100% before storage in the PROVIDED storage bag. Of course not I don't think you can dry the pump out 100% without taking it apart each time and using an air hose. it was a known **** product. The response should have been yes we know about this issue and we will send you a new pump case closed.

This is a $25 item in a truck worth $20k. It's not a matter of the money, it's a matter of people standing behind their products and I don't feel that's the case here. I've already ordered the ZODI pump and we'll give that a try. Otherwise as mentioned I'll go shur-flo.

If Kurt wants to send me a replacement pump I'll be delighted with his service (and return the ZODI through Amazon). If not I'll keep that in mind for future purchases (or lack there of)

As an example of companies standing behind their product. My TJM bumper had the powder coating begin to peel and after 1.5yrs well beyond normal wear. This was Past their warranty period but they still paid for me to have it re-powdered coated locally because they knew of a bad batch of coated products they had. They even offerd a new bumper be sent to me but I told them that isn't necessary. I can just get it powder coated here and save everyone money. This was bought through slee and they facilitated getting me in touch with the TJM American rep. That's service! And I'll buy again from both.

 

[freshlikesushi]

Why do you feel Kurt owes you anything? 2 years. 2 YEARS

one year warranty

If this broke in say 13 months...sure. I could see it.
But you are whining about something that you shouldn't be.

Again. if you are unhappy with the product, you should be going to the product MFG. not throwing a reputable company under the bus because you feel you should be treated special a year after an item is out of warranty. You are what we call someone who you cant satisfy. If he did give you a new pump, and year down the line something else broke, youd complain about a 3 year old part going bad. Suck it up. If you feel you paid too much, then YOU put together a kit and sell it.

 

[WOODY2]

This is as bad as the thread about a guy that whined about his Trasharoo strap breaking down after being left out in the elements 24-7 for 3 yrs.... Give it a break and move on dude :wings:

 

[bossman429]

Why do you feel Kurt owes you anything? 2 years. 2 YEARS

one year warranty
If this broke in say 13 months...sure. I could see it.
But you are whining about something that you shouldn't be.
Again. if you are unhappy with the product, you should be going to the product MFG. not throwing a reputable company under the bus because you feel you should be treated special a year after an item is out of warranty. You are what we call someone who you cant satisfy. If he did give you a new pump, and year down the line something else broke, you'd complain about a 3 year old part going bad. Suck it up. If you feel you paid too much, then YOU put together a kit and sell it.

Re-read my 1st post. I didn't throw him under the bus. I said the pump is crap. He even agreed. My original post had very little to do with C/O. 2 years yes but 8-10 uses? Come on. Your Fridge comes with a 1yr warranty but if it failed in 2 yrs wouldn't you be annoyed? As for contacting the manufacturer - i have no idea who it is Only C/O does as they purchased it from them and kitted it with the other components. He says he has no way of going back to them, so unfortunately he is left holding the buck since hes the one who sold it to me. Thats part of doing business as a retailer.

I'm giving a product review. I mentioned a few good with alot of bads. Dont like it or have a different experience that fine but for someone who is about to shell out $350, this may help them make a more informed decision. If this post were here when i bought mine i probably wouldn't have bought it and been better off.

Suck it up. If you feel you paid too much, then YOU put together a kit and sell it.

At this point I have put together a kit... only thing I'm using is the heat exchanger and a $4 mounting bracket. Re-reading my build thread i didn't even get the correct Tee fittings with my purchase. They sent me 5/8 when it should have been 3/4 x 5/8.

This is as bad as the thread about a guy that whined about his Trasharoo strap breaking down after being left out in the elements 24-7 for 3 yrs.... Give it a break and move on dude :wings:

Not exactly..... and i have moved on.. bought a new pump well before this thread. This was meant as a product review, others have made it more of a dig on the retailer.



Anyways - i dont want to turn this into a D-Web type Post. My expierence with the Helton Hot water system is not a good one for anyone who is looking for a solution. Given the chance, i wouldn't buy it again. That is all, take it FWIW

 

[freshlikesushi]

no YOU made it a dig on the retailer AND the product
1.Now this is not a dig at cruiser outfitters, but i sure as hell wouldn't sell a product like this myself
(which is like saying, No offence, you you are stupid. just because you add "not a dig" before an obvious intended remark isn't very useful)
2. Best part is a replacement pump can be bought from CruiserOutfitters for $45 (1.5x the price on amazon)


pretty that's digging. NO need to reference who you bought it from or be snarky about it. get over yourself
not to mention your entire post so far has basically made it seem you have a chip on your shoulder that you deserve something. Out of warranty, out of luck. If you had issues with parts, should have brought it up with them when you installed it.

 

[bossman429]

I did bring it up when I installed it. Look at my build thread.

Yea it's kinda a slap in the face when their offer to help is to sell you (what I knew to be the same junk)at a higher price than I can get on my own. Appreciate the "favor" but no thanks.

For that I do have an issue with the service I rec'd. But I'm looking past that and reviewing the product here Not CO.

 

[freshlikesushi]

Wait. You have an issue with a company, who most likely sells a fraction of what amazon does, offers to sell you a replacement at a discount (you don't know what their cost is) of their retail price when they have no obligation to even offer it?


do you realize how ridiculous you sound?

Delete your thread, and post a REAL product review if you are that concerned about it. At least then you wont look as bad as you do now

 

[bossman429]

Why are you here? Do you have a dog in this fight?

A discount compared to what? If you double the cost compared to other retailers and offer someone a 25% discount are you really offering a discount to the end user? NO.

I offered a product review, i think its pretty thorough and accurate in every way. Show me one part that isn't stated factually and honestly without evidence about my Experience with the product. Feel free to start your own thread about how great the product is from your personal experience and how great C/O is if you feel so obliged. Otherwise be quiet. You've added nothing of value to this thread other than stir the pot. How about C/O responds if they see fit. Kurt and I haven't exactly attacked one another over this and I dont want that to happen. I would love to know what pumps he is using now as i may look to purchase as a replacement now that i know it may be different than the one i rec'd originally.

I don't see what your purpose is in getting involved in this way on this thread