Hidden Winch...school me please

[deadly99]

Looking for some advice. I've decided to buy a winch for my truck. I'll be having a custom built bumper made. I'd like to have the winch hidden, for a couple of reasons.

1- My truck has to fit in my garage. This means the bumper needs to stay close to stock dimensions. I literally have a inch to spare front and back.

2- Aesthetically I prefer the look. This truck is my dd, I work in an office environment and keeping my vehicle "civilized" in appearance is preferred.

3- Theft, seems safer. Out of sight out of mind theory

This will be my first winch, hence the advice I am seeking....

Clutch, I cannot afford a Warn with a clutch button on the remote. I can have the bumper have a door or some form of access panel. Q- Do you use the clutch every time you use the winch, to pull the cable out? Will make a difference on the bumper design.

Cleaning, I live in a part of the world with lots of mud and salt/snow in the winter months. Being hidden, keeping the winch clean would not be easy. Big issue? Regular cleaning of the wire sufficient? Removing the bumper will be a huge ordeal..was thinking of a once a year task to clean the salt off in the spring?

Spool wheel not visible, a concern? Should I be worried that I wont be able to see the wire spooled correctly/incorrectly?

Not looking for a debate on winch selection I am getting a Smittybilt X20 comp. Waterproof, synthetic rope, wireless controller. I figure this info might help with answers/advice on my questions above.

Thanks in advance

Ted

 

[aardvarcus]

Any reason you don't put the winch on a 2" receiver cradle, and have a receiver built into the front bumper? The winch would be completely out of site tucked away in a toolbox or something completely clean and out of the weather until it is needed. Then is is usable front or back, and when you use it you have complete access to it. Do the electrical with Anderson Power Pole connectors for a quick disconnect.

 

[Airmapper]

Mine is semi-hidden, and in my opinion, the more covered it is, the more of a pain in the butt it will be if you ever need it. I'm happy with my setup, but if it were any more hidden than it is, I foresee many problems.

You DO NOT want it completely covered up. What if the cable tangles? (Could still happen with synthetic) What if that snazzy wireless controller stops working? (I also have a wireless controller, it it ever works reliably, it might be handy) Would you have access to the controller box, what if you have an issue there and need to get into it to fix it? And yes, you definitely must have access to the clutch handle.

Think of it this way, the more restricted you are from accessing it, the more reliance you are putting on that winch to operate perfectly when you need it most. If you put too much reliance on it and it has some issue you need to get in there to fix, your going to be just as stuck as if you had no winch at all.

You have a Smittybuilt, and I'm not ragging you on the brand because I run one myself, but you and I both know that is not the most reliable winch you can put in there. So with that in mind, should you ever have to use it, you for darn sure need to be able to get in there to tinker with it should it have some issue. Personally I overhauled mine before I ever installed it, found shoddy wiring and fixed it, cleaned out the junk grease and re-packed with aircraft grade lube. If you just pull yours out of the box and throw it on the bumper, well your going to be sorry one day you can't get at it.

 

[deadly99]

Debated that but read horror stories of the mount acting as a lever which bends the mount (unless your doing a perfect straight pull). Also having a mount stick out 3? inches from the bumper (to get the codder pin in) isnt feasible due to my garage size. Literally I have one inch front and one inch behind the rear bumper of spare room.

 

[deadly99]

Mine is semi-hidden, and in my opinion, the more covered it is, the more of a pain in the butt it will be if you ever need it. I'm happy with my setup, but if it were any more hidden than it is, I foresee many problems.

You DO NOT want it completely covered up. What if the cable tangles? (Could still happen with synthetic) What if that snazzy wireless controller stops working? (I also have a wireless controller, it it ever works reliably, it might be handy) Would you have access to the controller box, what if you have an issue there and need to get into it to fix it? And yes, you definitely must have access to the clutch handle.

Think of it this way, the more restricted you are from accessing it, the more reliance you are putting on that winch to operate perfectly when you need it most. If you put too much reliance on it and it has some issue you need to get in there to fix, your going to be just as stuck as if you had no winch at all.

You have a Smittybuilt, and I'm not ragging you on the brand because I run one myself, but you and I both know that is not the most reliable winch you can put in there. So with that in mind, should you ever have to use it, you for darn sure need to be able to get in there to tinker with it should it have some issue. Personally I overhauled mine before I ever installed it, found shoddy wiring and fixed it, cleaned out the junk grease and re-packed with aircraft grade lube. If you just pull yours out of the box and throw it on the bumper, well your going to be sorry one day you can't get at it.

Good advice, thanks. I'll rip it apart and inspect/relube before installation.

Semi hidden, might be possible given my bumpers size restrictions. Maybe a window for the clutch and a panel which could be unbolted to gain access to the entire winch, in case of an emergency. Would still be a pita but nowhere near as bad as removing the entire bumper.

 

[Airmapper]

Good advice, thanks. I'll rip it apart and inspect/relube before installation.

Semi hidden, might be possible given my bumpers size restrictions. Maybe a window for the clutch and a panel which could be unbolted to gain access to the entire winch, in case of an emergency. Would still be a pita but nowhere near as bad as removing the entire bumper.

A few things that may help. I looked at the H20 photos, I think the controller box is remote, meaning if you extend the leads you should be able to relocate it. Now this introduces a new issue of using properly sized cables, so you may need to use heavier cables if you move it too far, but it's possible you could mount it somewhere under the hood or behind the grille where you can get to it.

You also may be able to "clock" the housing the clutch handle is on. This would rotate it where the handle points out the front instead of vertically, that would give you more flexibility.

Outside that, keep access to the spool area somehow and you should be mostly fine. There is not much on the main motor and spool unit you could easily fix if it failed, so being able to access it is not as critical. Issues are most likely going to come from the controller box, the spool, or the clutch.

Mine is restricted enough I was not able to get a cover on it. I kind of regret that but not much I can do. If it is possible to keep enough space to slip a cover on it, I would, but technically it will be fine in the open, it just weathers quicker. My unit is not a H20, but when I disassembled to go over it, I sealed everything up with silicone when I put it back, so it's close. Really the controller is what needs to be waterproof, and I relocated mine up by the firewall, so it's high and dry.

 

[deadly99]

More good advice, thanks again. There is a nice spot under the hood I could relocate the controller to. When you say use a heavier gauge of wire is this due to the current having further to travel? Sorry to be a pest but some quality suggestions which are much appreciated. Given the bumper will be a custom one off I'd like to try to ensure I have this all figured out beforehand

 

[NYresQ]

More good advice, thanks again. There is a nice spot under the hood I could relocate the controller to. When you say use a heavier gauge of wire is this due to the current having further to travel? Sorry to be a pest but some quality suggestions which are much appreciated. Given the bumper will be a custom one off I'd like to try to ensure I have this all figured out beforehand

short answer-Yes

To carry the same amps, the longer the run, the larger the diameter of the wire you must use. Most winch manufacturers use the absolute minimum size they can (larger wire costs more money) for the distance to the factory mounting location for the control box. If the solenoid is meant to be mounted on the winch with short little pieces of cable, its a huge difference in wire size if you move it to a spot 4' away.I know my warn (M15000) came with 1' long 2ga wires for mounting the box on the motor housing. If I was going to relocate it to inside the engine compartment or something, I would look up the max current the winch pulls at stall load and the distance using a wire chart. Then get the properly sized/rated wire for the max load. It would probably require something closer to 2/0ga to carry the 450amp max load over 4'.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

Would be helpful to know what the truck is. Some winch manufacturers (Ramsey?) also sell hidden winch mounts for certain vehicles (my '98 GMC, for example). Even if you don't have that manufacturer's winch, you might be able to mount the SmittyBilt to it, or you may decide to get something other than the Smitty to simplify your installation. Using a hidden mount kit gives you more flexibility with your bumper design, because the winch is mounted to the frame. If your truck is a Dodge gasser, you could source the OEM Power Wagon winch cradle to mount to your frame, completely separate from the bumper.

 

[deadly99]

short answer-Yes

To carry the same amps, the longer the run, the larger the diameter of the wire you must use. Most winch manufacturers use the absolute minimum size they can (larger wire costs more money) for the distance to the factory mounting location for the control box. If the solenoid is meant to be mounted on the winch with short little pieces of cable, its a huge difference in wire size if you move it to a spot 4' away.I know my warn (M15000) came with 1' long 2ga wires for mounting the box on the motor housing. If I was going to relocate it to inside the engine compartment or something, I would look up the max current the winch pulls at stall load and the distance using a wire chart. Then get the properly sized/rated wire for the max load. It would probably require something closer to 2/0ga to carry the 450amp max load over 4'.

Good info, thanks

Would be helpful to know what the truck is. Some winch manufacturers (Ramsey?) also sell hidden winch mounts for certain vehicles (my '98 GMC, for example). Even if you don't have that manufacturer's winch, you might be able to mount the SmittyBilt to it, or you may decide to get something other than the Smitty to simplify your installation. Using a hidden mount kit gives you more flexibility with your bumper design, because the winch is mounted to the frame. If your truck is a Dodge gasser, you could source the OEM Power Wagon winch cradle to mount to your frame, completely separate from the bumper.

2015 GMC Canyon. No decent aftermarket bumpers available and a custom one would be cheaper regardless. The Canadian dollar is embarrassingly low and shipping for something as heavy and large as a bumper would be insane.

 

[eggman918]

For the clutch you could do a remote hydraulic system using a pair of double action hydraulic cylinders one as master and one as slave,Ii wight be cheaper to use pneumatic cylinders as the load will me minimal they come in sizes that should work.......just thinking out loud.

 

[jeep-N-montero]

Here is a great place to look http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/search.php?searchid=4698572

 

[expedition4x4]

I did a fully hidden winch in my Jeep AEV bumper, the kind of winch you go with is important as you need to verify that the freespooling clutch can be operated. My bumper has a little window for visual inspection of rope as it is being spooled and that makes a big difference.

 

[deadly99]

Thanks for all the replies, very much appreciated

@expedition4x4

I see snow in your photo, which I assume means salted roads. Whats your thoughts on cleaning the hidden winch?

 

[AFBronco235]

I went with a hidden winch behind the stock bumper on my 91' bronco. I did have to extend the bumper out about 2 inches with some new brackets, but it doesn't alter the look and even most other bronco guys don't notice the difference. I had a notch cut in the bumper over the clutch lever for access to that. I have just enough room to use a winch cover. Since I have steel cable, a cover was a big priority due to rust. I should point out that the stock bumper is made out of pressed and tempered 1/4 steel plate so its not flimsy at all and had no problems mounting the rollers to it.

If I need to do any work on the winch, I do need to drop the bumper, but its only 4 bolts so its not a bad as you'd think. The only problems I've had with my setup were due to a control box not being water tight. I didn't even go through any water. It was just water intrusion from rain. However, I replaced the box with one from a newer winch that was water tight so hopefully I won't have any trough now.