Hybrid or Gas for full-time camper? MPG guesses?

[PDX_Jay]

Hello - thought I'd throw this question out there, see if there were opinions.

I'm planning on purchasing a 2022 Tundra, crewmax 6.5ft later this year, either an SR5 TRD Off-Road, or a Limited with TRD Off-Road (both configurations would be more or less the same price, with the options I'd want, assuming I can find what I want at a dealership). Will be putting a flatbed on it, with a custom composite pop-up camper. Quick photoshop mockup here:



Planning on probably 35's, a small lift, a new front bumper, and winch. I'm guessing I will be right at max payload with all that, pretty much all the time. Probably will be doing a new suspension on it, as soon as those are available for this, just to handle the weight better (not really super interested in the air suspension from Toyota. I'm trying to figure out if the hybrid would be worth it to me, just purely from a fuel saving point of view, within say 5-6yrs. Here's my logic:

Stock, without a load, the difference between the standard and hybrid is 19mpg vs 21mpg (10.5% increase). So figuring gas at $4/gal, and 15k annual mileage, I'm saving $300/yr, and it's gonna take 11.3 years to make back the $3,400 in additional cost of getting the hybrid. So from a purely financial point of view, that's a long time to wait to break even (ignoring other benefits of hybrid).

However, with a lift, larger tires, being at max payload, and additional air resistance of a camper, I figure my mpg will be closer to 14 for the gas (I don't drive fast on the highway, and am a pretty conservative driver in general). Does that seem like a reasonable guess to any of you who have any experience on similar situations? That's a 25% drop in fuel efficiency.

I'm hoping the hybrid would still gain me an extra 2mpg - putting me at 16mpg. That's still a 25% drop in fuel efficiency, but now it's a 14.3% increase over the gas engine . I could be wrong on those estimates of course, but if it were true, it would mean I'd recover the cost of upgrading to hybrid in just over 6yrs, which actually is starting to feel worth it.

My logic is: the main mpg advantage of the hybrid comes into play when the electric motor is kicking in, avoiding the engine running at inefficient rpms. As I'd be doing that frequently with the lift, more aerodynamic drag, and lots of weight, the advantage of the hybrid would be greater in this situation. Of course, it would be nice to just have extra power anyway (although I hardly think I'd need it), and the extra range (an extra 65 miles). Main downsides are the extra weight of the hybrid system putting me over max payload, and losing the storage space under the rear seat (not a deal breaker, but somewhat annoying.

Any thoughts?

 

[phsycle]

I’d not waste $ for a hybrid in your situation. Doesn’t pencil out. Just get gas.

Another thing to consider is 1/2 ton vs HD. For full time camper use, I would personally go HD. Even if you’re at or close to max payload, components will wear quicker on the 1/2 ton with constant load. I don’t think you’ll be off by much for gas efficiency, either.

 

[tanuki.himself]

i would expect the hybrid to be a heavier vehicle so have less payload, and as someone who has built on a smaller truck (Ranger) weight is everything

 

[bkg]

Two thoughts...

I'd shy away from first-model year on this one... you're talking about dropping major coin on a vehicle that... some say... is plagued with bugs

You'll be way over payload.

 

[PDX_Jay]

i would expect the hybrid to be a heavier vehicle so have less payload, and as someone who has built on a smaller truck (Ranger) weight is everything

Usually, I'd agree. Except in this case, I'm losing about 200lb of payload, but gaining a bunch of torque and HP. Obviously, I'm still limited by frame and suspension...although I can upgrade suspension. I'm leaning towards just the gas version. But as I still think I'll be right about at the payload, I'm a little on the fence.

 

[calicamper]

So far the larger heavier hybrids start to see bigger mileage gains in the slow speed use were the gas side is at its least efficient. So the F150 hybrid owners who do lots of short local trips which really kills gas mileage they typically see a far greater bump in average mileage with the hybrid, vs the hybrid owner who does more highway use sees a much smaller to near zero advantage regarding gas mileage.
Your biggest advantage is likely better power system options to charge up the camper lithium house batteries over say a non hybrid.
No doubt weight is your biggest enemy and the hybrid definitely won’t help with that.
If your set on a platform where your going to be counting weight of screw heads, underwear, toothbrush and such probably skip the hybrid given your weight issues will be a huge battle and your mileage challenge is primarily bad aerodynamics which hybrids really don’t tolerate.

If your thinking range then its simple stop trying to stuff 2 tons of crap into a 1/2 ton skateboard?. Get a heavier truck with bigger tank and likely better mileage too.

 

[PDX_Jay]

Two thoughts...

I'd shy away from first-model year on this one... you're talking about dropping major coin on a vehicle that... some say... is plagued with bugs

You'll be way over payload.

Hmmm... really? Payload on the hybrid is about 1,650. The gas version is more. My aluminum flat bed shouldn't be much different from the stock bed. So we're talking the weight of a composite camper - should be around 800-900lbs for the shell model I'm getting. Add in 200lbs of water, 200lbs for electrical, 200lbs of build-out, and 200lbs of other stuff (using combo of 8020 when possible, and 1/2" ply for the build out). that puts me right at about 1,700 lbs. So yes, I'll be over when fully loaded, with both my wife and myself in there. But probably no more than 15% over. Is that too much, once I've changed the coils and shocks to something more appropriate? In my past experience with toyotas (for my job we run a fleet of 15 Landcruisers) - it would be fine. Also seen a good number of people with FWC campers on flatbeds on 2nd gen tundras. that's an even heavier setup than what i'll have, and people seem happy with it??? At least they seem to be online LOL - need to talk to them in person. And if I go for the gas version, I'll gain a little extra payload (200lbs?) from not having the hybrid system on there.

I am a little worried about the first-model year (for any vehicle). So valid point on that. Still have a few months to really decide, hence the reason why I'm asking some questions on here to see what people think. My budget is right around $55k for the truck... and not interested in getting a 15yr old vehicle - I want the modern safety options. Definitely considering a F250, or Ram 2500 as alternatives.

 

[phsycle]

The payload figured you see on Toyota site is the max payload. ie doesn’t include options, lowest trim, etc. I’ve not checked one out in person but if you do get a look at the door jamb sticker, I’d be surprised if they’re even close to those figures.

Edit: I skimmed this tundra thread, one guy took a picture of a stripped base SR5, Crewmax 4wd. Payload = 1,365lbs. Some others are in the 1,200’s.

Payload Stickers?

Was just checking some math. Doesn't 1 US gallon of petrol weigh 6 lbs? So, 24 US gallons would weigh 144 lbs, resulting in even more payload? Yes,...

www.tundras.com

 

[LionZoo]

Seems like the same thing happens on, at least, the Ford side as well: https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/photos-of-2021-f-150-lariat-payload-stickers.804/

Not sure if this is typical of all manufacturers. There's also speculation that the payload numbers are CYA numbers pulled out of someone's ass. I'd be curious to see what these trucks weigh and how that compares after you do the math from GVWR.

 

[JaSAn]

. . .There's also speculation that the payload numbers are CYA numbers pulled out of someone's ass . . .

This is how it usually works (Cliff's Notes version):
- A products team gives engineering a bunch of specs including cost to manufacture and payload.
- Engineering comes back with a number of options.
- Marketing, accounting, engineering, and legal get into big fight; marketing wants the biggest payload, accounting wants the most profit, engineering wants the most features, legal wants the biggest safety factor. Blood flows ankle deep. Management steps in and makes the decision.
- Vehicles GVWR/GVAR/GVCR reflects that decision.

The GVWR et.al. is usually determined by the weak link in the vehicle (frame, axle, brakes, steering components, etc.) under some test regimen. We are not told what the safety factor, weak components, or test conditions are. We are just given a number.

 

[calicamper]

Hmmm... really? Payload on the hybrid is about 1,650. The gas version is more. My aluminum flat bed shouldn't be much different from the stock bed. So we're talking the weight of a composite camper - should be around 800-900lbs for the shell model I'm getting. Add in 200lbs of water, 200lbs for electrical, 200lbs of build-out, and 200lbs of other stuff (using combo of 8020 when possible, and 1/2" ply for the build out). that puts me right at about 1,700 lbs. So yes, I'll be over when fully loaded, with both my wife and myself in there. But probably no more than 15% over. Is that too much, once I've changed the coils and shocks to something more appropriate? In my past experience with toyotas (for my job we run a fleet of 15 Landcruisers) - it would be fine. Also seen a good number of people with FWC campers on flatbeds on 2nd gen tundras. that's an even heavier setup than what i'll have, and people seem happy with it??? At least they seem to be online LOL - need to talk to them in person. And if I go for the gas version, I'll gain a little extra payload (200lbs?) from not having the hybrid system on there.

I am a little worried about the first-model year (for any vehicle). So valid point on that. Still have a few months to really decide, hence the reason why I'm asking some questions on here to see what people think. My budget is right around $55k for the truck... and not interested in getting a 15yr old vehicle - I want the modern safety options. Definitely considering a F250, or Ram 2500 as alternatives.

My LC even loaded to weight limit handled like complete trash. Over loaded? Pfft maybe in the Alaskan Tundra with max speeds under 50mph. No way in hell it was remotely enjoyable to drive anywhere in the lower 48 with traffic loaded over capacity. Especially with off road tires.

 

[bkg]

Hmmm... really? Payload on the hybrid is about 1,650. The gas version is more. My aluminum flat bed shouldn't be much different from the stock bed. So we're talking the weight of a composite camper - should be around 800-900lbs for the shell model I'm getting. Add in 200lbs of water, 200lbs for electrical, 200lbs of build-out, and 200lbs of other stuff (using combo of 8020 when possible, and 1/2" ply for the build out). that puts me right at about 1,700 lbs. So yes, I'll be over when fully loaded, with both my wife and myself in there. But probably no more than 15% over. Is that too much, once I've changed the coils and shocks to something more appropriate? In my past experience with toyotas (for my job we run a fleet of 15 Landcruisers) - it would be fine. Also seen a good number of people with FWC campers on flatbeds on 2nd gen tundras. that's an even heavier setup than what i'll have, and people seem happy with it??? At least they seem to be online LOL - need to talk to them in person. And if I go for the gas version, I'll gain a little extra payload (200lbs?) from not having the hybrid system on there.

I am a little worried about the first-model year (for any vehicle). So valid point on that. Still have a few months to really decide, hence the reason why I'm asking some questions on here to see what people think. My budget is right around $55k for the truck... and not interested in getting a 15yr old vehicle - I want the modern safety options. Definitely considering a F250, or Ram 2500 as alternatives.

as said… you’ll be over.

but justify it how you want, I guess.

 

[bkg]

Seems like the same thing happens on, at least, the Ford side as well: https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/photos-of-2021-f-150-lariat-payload-stickers.804/

Not sure if this is typical of all manufacturers. There's also speculation that the payload numbers are CYA numbers pulled out of someone's ass. I'd be curious to see what these trucks weigh and how that compares after you do the math from GVWR.

well… shoot. Ignore GvWR then, because someone on the interwebs said it’s just a CYA number.

or…

figure out what you want to carry, and buy a truck that can carry it….

 

[skrypj]

The payload figured you see on Toyota site is the max payload. ie doesn’t include options, lowest trim, etc. I’ve not checked one out in person but if you do get a look at the door jamb sticker, I’d be surprised if they’re even close to those figures.

Edit: I skimmed this tundra thread, one guy took a picture of a stripped base SR5, Crewmax 4wd. Payload = 1,365lbs. Some others are in the 1,200’s.

Payload Stickers?

Was just checking some math. Doesn't 1 US gallon of petrol weigh 6 lbs? So, 24 US gallons would weigh 144 lbs, resulting in even more payload? Yes,...

www.tundras.com

I've posted in that thread under the name "mass-hole"(they wouldnt let me use that name here), and if you look at my posts on the last few pages of that thread you will see that the payload stickers on all the 2022 Tundras are DIRECTLY from the owners manual. I have not seen one door sticker yet that isnt the same exact number as the manual:



So I think Toyota is sandbagging the payload numbers to some degree on the door stickers. I am guessing they might be taking the highest possible weight for a given configuration(cab/bed/drive) and assigning it to all trucks of that config.

For example, Andre at TFLTruck bought that Limited Crew max short bed 4x4 and his door sticker is exactly 1400 lbs just like the manual above. You can imagine an SR or SR5 of that same configuration is likely several hundred lbs lighter.

Seems like the same thing happens on, at least, the Ford side as well: https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/photos-of-2021-f-150-lariat-payload-stickers.804/

Not sure if this is typical of all manufacturers. There's also speculation that the payload numbers are CYA numbers pulled out of someone's ass. I'd be curious to see what these trucks weigh and how that compares after you do the math from GVWR.

Ford's, and as far as I know GM's, are very close to the payload sticker. My F150 cat scaled within 20 lbs of the what the door sticker suggested it should have been. Ford actually calculates the payload for each truck individually based on the options. You can actually get the option weights out of the builder spec guides on the Ford website and do the calcs yourself for a truck you spec out.

It does not seem Toyota is doing this with the Tundra.

well… shoot. Ignore GvWR then, because someone on the interwebs said it’s just a CYA number.

or…

figure out what you want to carry, and buy a truck that can carry it….

But everybody knows Tundras are build just like a 1 ton. Way heavier duty than any US half ton. Toyota just fudges the payload numbers to protect us from ourselves.

/sarcasm.

 

[calicamper]

Even the Expedition you could spec out the options via weight impact on the rated load capacity when I bought mine. 1700lbs on my fully loaded heavy tow pack Expedition. Which is basically a F150 station wagon. Had I skipped the glass roof and the fancy crap the wife likes I’d be up a few 100 on capacity as listed on the door sticker. For sure Toyota doesn’t do that. My old 07 Sequoia had a very generic load rating

As for FWC’s on the old 1st gen Tundras yep my uncle ran one he was solo and packed light did it for a yr then sold the Tundra and got a nice old Sierra 1500 he went from 14mpg to 18mpg and way better power and ride quality. He was much happier.