I give up
- Thread starter goodtimes
- Start date
DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Wow, looks expensive.
goodtimes
Expedition Poseur
Yup. That is about $800 worth of electrical parts. There will be another $400 worth of batteries added next week.
All of my aftermarket electronic crap + fridge + lights has resulted in a mess of wire strewn through the jeep. All that goes away this month.
So far:
Kilby dual battery tray
Hellroaring isolater
2ea: Blue Sea fuse blocks (6 circuits + ground bus on each)
2ea: 50 amp circuit breakers
32' of 8awg wire
30' of 10 - 2 cable
50' of 12 - 2 cable
20' of split wire loom
Lots of solderless terminals
Pair of crimping tools that will handle everything from 00 - 22ga
All of my aftermarket electronic crap + fridge + lights has resulted in a mess of wire strewn through the jeep. All that goes away this month.
So far:
Kilby dual battery tray
Hellroaring isolater
2ea: Blue Sea fuse blocks (6 circuits + ground bus on each)
2ea: 50 amp circuit breakers
32' of 8awg wire
30' of 10 - 2 cable
50' of 12 - 2 cable
20' of split wire loom
Lots of solderless terminals
Pair of crimping tools that will handle everything from 00 - 22ga
offroad_nomad
Adventurer
Sounds like an interesting project. I hope you take plenty of pictures and possibly provide us a write up if you have the time.
goodtimes
Expedition Poseur
Actually, I don't really mind wiring....when I am wiring something that I want to.
So, here is a little back ground.
I have spent the last 5 1/2 years driving my TJ all over the place. The Rubicon, Death Valley, Mexico, SoCal, Arizona, Colorado . . . you get the idea.
Along the way, a few things have been added. 2 meter radio, CB, Sat. radio, GPS, aux lighting, fridge, and the usual assortment of phone chargers and other cigarette lighter powered accessories. Unfortunately, I never had the time to do most of the installs "right". So, they are usually done "almost right". Then the next install is done "almost right". And then the next one....etc. The result is half a dozen systems that are "almost right"...which means that none of them are really right. So, I sold an axle (a high pinion Dana 60 from a '78 Ford F-250...a highly desirable axle) which left me with a small stack of $100 bills. This, along with the mess that we encountered on a recent trip to the Dragoons, led me to the decision that it needed to be fixed, cost be damned.
The heart of the system will be a pair of batteries, seperated by an isolater/combiner produced by Hellroaring. This will be wired up in a basic "aux battery" configuration.
One battery will be used for all "under the hood" accessories, including starting, winching, lighting, etc. The winch will be connected directly to the main battery, but all of the other aftermarket accessories will be run through a Blue Sea fuse block. This this block will be disconnected from the electrical system via a relay that is controlled by a keyed ignition source. Essentially, this will require the key to be on to power the lights, air compressor, etc. This configuration gives charging priority to the starting battery. So all the big "engine on" loads are run off of this battery. What ever is left over from the alternator, after the main battery is charged and the accessories are running, goes to the aux battery. In the event of the primary battery needing 100+% of the alternator output (like winching), the aux battery simply doesn't get charged...or discharged (unless I combine the batteries manually via a switch).
The second battery will be connected to the primary battery via the isolater. All of the "inside the jeep" accessories will run off of the aux battery, through a second Blue Sea fuse block. This fuse block will be hot all the time, allowing the fridge, CB, 2 meter radio, etc to run even with the key off.
Overall, it is a pretty typical system.
So, it started last night with me ripping out all of the wiring that I have done previously. In addition, I scouted out locations for the new fuse blocks and isolater. It wasn't an easy task. Today, I will start wiring from the accessories back to the fuse blocks, then from the fuse blocks back to the battery location. I'm working this backwards (accessories to the battery, rather than battery to accessorie) due to some A/C issues. I have to replace one of the liquid lines on the A/C to give me room for the dual batteries. That work is being done on Monday. Then Monday night, I should be able to tie in the batteries and isolater.
Sounds simple enough, doesn't it? Yea....check back in 3 weeks to see how many setbacks I have....
eepwall:
So, here is a little back ground.
I have spent the last 5 1/2 years driving my TJ all over the place. The Rubicon, Death Valley, Mexico, SoCal, Arizona, Colorado . . . you get the idea.
Along the way, a few things have been added. 2 meter radio, CB, Sat. radio, GPS, aux lighting, fridge, and the usual assortment of phone chargers and other cigarette lighter powered accessories. Unfortunately, I never had the time to do most of the installs "right". So, they are usually done "almost right". Then the next install is done "almost right". And then the next one....etc. The result is half a dozen systems that are "almost right"...which means that none of them are really right. So, I sold an axle (a high pinion Dana 60 from a '78 Ford F-250...a highly desirable axle) which left me with a small stack of $100 bills. This, along with the mess that we encountered on a recent trip to the Dragoons, led me to the decision that it needed to be fixed, cost be damned.
The heart of the system will be a pair of batteries, seperated by an isolater/combiner produced by Hellroaring. This will be wired up in a basic "aux battery" configuration.
One battery will be used for all "under the hood" accessories, including starting, winching, lighting, etc. The winch will be connected directly to the main battery, but all of the other aftermarket accessories will be run through a Blue Sea fuse block. This this block will be disconnected from the electrical system via a relay that is controlled by a keyed ignition source. Essentially, this will require the key to be on to power the lights, air compressor, etc. This configuration gives charging priority to the starting battery. So all the big "engine on" loads are run off of this battery. What ever is left over from the alternator, after the main battery is charged and the accessories are running, goes to the aux battery. In the event of the primary battery needing 100+% of the alternator output (like winching), the aux battery simply doesn't get charged...or discharged (unless I combine the batteries manually via a switch).
The second battery will be connected to the primary battery via the isolater. All of the "inside the jeep" accessories will run off of the aux battery, through a second Blue Sea fuse block. This fuse block will be hot all the time, allowing the fridge, CB, 2 meter radio, etc to run even with the key off.
Overall, it is a pretty typical system.
So, it started last night with me ripping out all of the wiring that I have done previously. In addition, I scouted out locations for the new fuse blocks and isolater. It wasn't an easy task. Today, I will start wiring from the accessories back to the fuse blocks, then from the fuse blocks back to the battery location. I'm working this backwards (accessories to the battery, rather than battery to accessorie) due to some A/C issues. I have to replace one of the liquid lines on the A/C to give me room for the dual batteries. That work is being done on Monday. Then Monday night, I should be able to tie in the batteries and isolater.
Sounds simple enough, doesn't it? Yea....check back in 3 weeks to see how many setbacks I have....
eepwall:
viatierra
Explorer
4RunAmok said:
Amok... you a sickness so dire there isn't even a name for it.
I feel for you Brian. There is nothing lamer than wiring EXCEPT for redoing mods not quite done right the first time. Put them together you have an exponentially lame project. Fortunately, there is nothing more satisfying than fixing issues that have been nagging you for a few years.
Good luck! Don't forget to reward yourself.
:beer:
offroad_nomad
Adventurer
Do you mind sharing some more details about what relay and size you went with and what ignition source you choose to power the relay? Thanks.
goodtimes said:
goodtimes
Expedition Poseur
offroad_nomad said:
There are 3 relays in the auxillary system.
Relay #1 is used to disconnect the under-hood fuse block when the ignition is shut off. This fuse block will power the lights and air compressor (control and load sides of both). The total load on this fuse block will (currently) be approximatly 35 amps if both (100w) lights and compressor are running at the same time. I was planning on using a 50 amp relay, but none were available at the local electronics supply house, so I ended up with a 70 amp relay made by NTE, model #R51-ID70-12F. They run about $7. I am using a 50 amp circuit breaker to protect the fuse block. 50 amps is probably more than I will ever use on this fuse block, but if I do need more, I can change out the relay and circuit breaker for under $15. Wiring is 10ga. to the fuse block, 12ga coming off of it.
Relay #2 and #3, are used to power the Lightforce 170's and compressor respectively, are both 40 amps, NTE #R51-ID40-12F. They run about $5.50 each.
I am not sure which switched circuit I will use on the control side of relay #1. I am not a huge fan of tapping into factory wiring. They pay their electrical engineers a ton of money, and they are damn good at what they do. Adding "stuff" to their circuits can become problematic real quick if you get the wrong circuit. So I have a bit of research to do, but I am leaning towards picking up the +12v at the keyed power port (cigarette lighter). It is usually a pretty safe circuit.
The fuse block inside the jeep has a 50 amp breaker protecting it as well, and is currently powering 2 power ports (15amp dedicated circuits) in the back of the jeep (fridge + whatever else), the CB, 2M (both off of one line, fused independantly), GPS, power port in the dash (there is a OEM un-keyed port that lost power a few years ago...I couldn't find the problem, so now it is powered off of the fuse block), and one spare.
I'll post a diagram later (tomorrow...next week....sometime).
offroad_nomad
Adventurer
Thanks for the details. I'm going to tackle something similar this summer.
goodtimes
Expedition Poseur
I gotta say, I usually have a good handle on projects before I jump in...but this one has become a challenge....both to my time and my wallet.
If you are seriously considering this, and are using top quality parts....check the prices and do the math. My original "guess-timate" was around $800, and 2 days worth of work. I am about dead on with the labor, but the parts have gone over budget by 60%+.
Battery tray $225
Batteries $400
AC work $115 (required to use the Kilby Battery tray)
Fuse blocks $175
Isolator + breakers $200
Wire + supplies $125
Supplies (2nd trip) $50 (I changed the plan a little)
Supplies (3rd trip) $10 (I ran out of one size of ring terminal)
Fuses + power plug $20
I have 3 more ground wires to run (both new fuse blocks and the winch). But I am out of time for the evening--homework beckons. Plus, it is time for a 4th trip to the electronic supply shop....I am short one lousy, stinkin terminal (for a 1 ga cable). dammit!
Thursday should be the day.
Oh, it's incredibly tight in there. Seriously.
It is a 30 minute proposition to remove the first battery in this thing...IF you know what you are doing, and had all your tools out, ready to go.
Sorry, no pics until I get the wiring cleaned up a little (it is kind of ugly rignt now).
If you are seriously considering this, and are using top quality parts....check the prices and do the math. My original "guess-timate" was around $800, and 2 days worth of work. I am about dead on with the labor, but the parts have gone over budget by 60%+.
Battery tray $225
Batteries $400
AC work $115 (required to use the Kilby Battery tray)
Fuse blocks $175
Isolator + breakers $200
Wire + supplies $125
Supplies (2nd trip) $50 (I changed the plan a little)
Supplies (3rd trip) $10 (I ran out of one size of ring terminal)
Fuses + power plug $20
I have 3 more ground wires to run (both new fuse blocks and the winch). But I am out of time for the evening--homework beckons. Plus, it is time for a 4th trip to the electronic supply shop....I am short one lousy, stinkin terminal (for a 1 ga cable). dammit!
Thursday should be the day.
Oh, it's incredibly tight in there. Seriously.
It is a 30 minute proposition to remove the first battery in this thing...IF you know what you are doing, and had all your tools out, ready to go.
Sorry, no pics until I get the wiring cleaned up a little (it is kind of ugly rignt now).
Rockcrawler
Adventurer
Almost there! You will appreciate all the work and forget about the money put into it when you're able to enjoy a few cold ones on the 3rd or 4th day of a trip from your fridge that is still running.
I'm picking up the batteries for my project today and have the fuse blocks etc. on order. I need to rebuild the bench in the FWC first so that will be my project either Friday night or Saturday afternoon.
Kyle
I'm picking up the batteries for my project today and have the fuse blocks etc. on order. I need to rebuild the bench in the FWC first so that will be my project either Friday night or Saturday afternoon.
Kyle
Well i know exactly what your going through buddy, and i don't even know what im doing LOL! I'll have to post some pics of the wiring deal that came with the van i am converting, but same idea, the electrical work had been worked on countless times by any number of people since 84! and never ever was anything done right. It was a miracle that the van was still alive, or us for that matter, we're talking 3 to 4 splices within 4 feet of wire in some places, relays that dint do anything, raw exposed wire everywhere you looked, knots of rats nest wire running in every direction, just about every plug was hanging by a thread. We prolly took out 15 pounds of wire and nothing stopped running! Eventually we broke down and bought a whole new harness for the thing and thats not even including what we needed for the aux bank, expensive, to say the least. Anyways its been a daunting challenge to say the least and i have never done anything like this before so its been nearly impossible, but no way could we pay an electrician. Either way its so satisfying to have everything work and feel safe knowing that its all done right! Good luck and keep the pics rolling, and if you wouldn't mind check out my post in this same section. Oh and those fuse panels sound to be pretty expensive, what was your reasoning for not using something cheaper, for example something from Waytek? JUst curious cuz im very close to buying my wiring fuse panels and connectors.
goodtimes
Expedition Poseur
I looked at Waytek, but without going to a custom order, I had a choice of a 20 circuit block (way to big), or a block that did not include positive or negative buss...I wanted both. These busses greatly simplify adding a circuit, and eliminate having individual grounds scattered all over the place. I also like screw terminals over spade terminals...personal preference I guess.
Here is what I am using. Expensive? Yes. Worth it? IMO, yes. BTW, the price I posted is for two fuse blocks + shipping, in case there was any confusion.
Here is what I am using. Expensive? Yes. Worth it? IMO, yes. BTW, the price I posted is for two fuse blocks + shipping, in case there was any confusion.