Is this why JLR are dropping Land Rover?

naks

Well-known member

"... Here’s a theory. I’d suggest that the Land Rover name, brand and image is in fact well known and that is exactly why JLR are dropping it. Why?

Because the name “Land Rover” conjures up images of Defenders, Series vehicles, farmers, Camel Trophy, rough 4×4, working class, winching through mud.

This is exactly what JLR is not about. They don’t want to be associated with such imagery. Instead, it seems to me they’re now for the affluent, socially mobile class who want an ‘adventure’ vehicle that’s also luxurious and is a bit different to the MD’s BMW or the CEO’s Mercedes.

I don’t think JLR intend or want their vehicles to be seriously used offroad any more, but they need to retain some capability as a differentiator. True offroad owners are annoying; they know lots about the vehicle to irritate salespeople, they modify it, they complain about minor things that aren’t important to the company, they ask silly questions about how the 4×4 systems work, they use specialist mechanics, aftermarket companies start modifying the vehicles and people still expect warranty, the owners form clubs and ask for help, and enthusiasts start waving logos around at Places We Would Rather They Not, and generally behaving Off Brand.

Much better to have a few C-level execs or high-flying managers driving your cars to the golf clubs, marinas and skifields , hassle-free, all relying on main dealer servicing. And then you won’t get scruffy, bearded types rabbiting on about Series vehicles, making the lycra-clad adventure-picnic set uncomfortable. ..."
 

Correus

Adventurer
Here's another aspect...

A few years back, I read an article wherein Land Rover was said to be "racist" and perpetuating the "Colonial" idea. The article even quoted something from LR's heritage that was used in advertising - it said something like "in several parts of the world, the Land Rover was the first vehicle ever seen by those Natives."

As everyone knows, the UK and the British Royal family have been getting hammered for its history, just as the USA has been. Then, in March 2022, it came up again when William and Kate visited Jamaica. Evidently, it offended several 'Karens' out there that W&K attended the inaugural Commissioning Parade honoring service personnel in Kingston, Jamaica, in the same LR HRM ERII was in when she did the same in 1953. Even though it was the Jamaican Government's idea and intended to honor HRM ERII, it backfired.

That visit, plus the article I mentioned, as well as other instances, firmly placed 'Land Rover' on the racist colonialism list thanks to all of those woke Karens of the world. So, the parent company - Tata - probably see the 'Land Rover' marque as a liability. As a final slap to the face of Great Britain, it isn't lost on me that the Tata is an Indian conglomerate. Hmm... could this be an act of revenge, either consciously or unconsciously?
 

SkiWill

Well-known member
Perhaps it's because the brand "Land Rover" is broadly associated with "reliability" and "quality." Oh wait. It's the complete opposite, which is why the LR3 and LR4 were labeled the LR3 and LR4 in the USA after the Discovery II because the branding associated with "Discovery" was synonymous with blown head gaskets and other calls for tow trucks and expensive repair bills.
 

hillstrubl

Observer

"... Here’s a theory. I’d suggest that the Land Rover name, brand and image is in fact well known and that is exactly why JLR are dropping it. Why?

Because the name “Land Rover” conjures up images of Defenders, Series vehicles, farmers, Camel Trophy, rough 4×4, working class, winching through mud.

This is exactly what JLR is not about. They don’t want to be associated with such imagery. Instead, it seems to me they’re now for the affluent, socially mobile class who want an ‘adventure’ vehicle that’s also luxurious and is a bit different to the MD’s BMW or the CEO’s Mercedes.

I don’t think JLR intend or want their vehicles to be seriously used offroad any more, but they need to retain some capability as a differentiator. True offroad owners are annoying; they know lots about the vehicle to irritate salespeople, they modify it, they complain about minor things that aren’t important to the company, they ask silly questions about how the 4×4 systems work, they use specialist mechanics, aftermarket companies start modifying the vehicles and people still expect warranty, the owners form clubs and ask for help, and enthusiasts start waving logos around at Places We Would Rather They Not, and generally behaving Off Brand.

Much better to have a few C-level execs or high-flying managers driving your cars to the golf clubs, marinas and skifields , hassle-free, all relying on main dealer servicing. And then you won’t get scruffy, bearded types rabbiting on about Series vehicles, making the lycra-clad adventure-picnic set uncomfortable. ..."
Its exactly this, look at Volvo using Polestar instead. #Baffling
 

DC DII

Member
CC916F63-1CD0-4F49-AD09-6ACCBDFDFBDD_1_201_a.jpeg

Living in a TPC neighborhood (TPC= PGA Golf Sponsored Course) the response I get from new Land Rover owners (which there are a ton) is less than stellar. This is a rust free 2004 that is usually very clean, no rust, and the roof rack and tent are taken off to fit in the garage so...not an eyesore.

I have heard "nice Jeep", "nice Toyota" and "what exactly is that???" - all from new Land Rover owners the last 5 years - here in the neighborhood shops AND customers at the dealership... It used to be kinda' shocking, now just the norm. Even my wife has noticed the difference in new vs older Land Rover owners with her 2008 "Discovery 3" HSE Lux (which is a great truck) vs the new Discovery owners...really no brand recognition like Jeep owners and Toyota owners...which as it stands...I quite envy.

From above: "I don’t think JLR intend or want their vehicles to be seriously used offroad any more, but they need to retain some capability as a differentiator. True offroad owners are annoying; they know lots about the vehicle to irritate salespeople, they modify it, they complain about minor things that aren’t important to the company, they ask silly questions about how the 4×4 systems work, they use specialist mechanics, aftermarket companies start modifying the vehicles and people still expect warranty, the owners form clubs and ask for help, and enthusiasts start waving logos around at Places We Would Rather They Not, and generally behaving Off Brand."



Agree for the most part with the above quote as I remember days when I would pull up to the dealer in this, or one of my old Range Rover Classics, and most times a sales person would come out to take a look, snoop around, ask questions...not anymore. So I just order parts online as I feel the dealer really could care less about my simple purchase of an oil filter(I know, I get it) but used to love going in to have coffee and shoot the ******** with the parts guys, salesmen, etc...


I have put tens of thousands ($) in this truck since ownership which is now almost 18 years...drivetrain upgrades, suspension upgrades, complete interior restoration, accessories, and will own it for the rest of my life...I get it, times change. The last 4-5 years it's just become "the truck", not a DII, not a Land Rover, Disco, etc. which is kind of disheartening. Not embarrased to own an "old" Land Rover, just see the crazy disappointment when I point out my Land Rover to new car owners, Land Rover or other. Seems nowadays newer is always better (or expected). :)

I got a good one - that has never left me stranded or frustrated, and whether to be running errands or go offroading and camping for weeks, if not months, at a time, I still love climbing in and setting off.


Sadly, most new owners just aren't programmed that way. It's status, a mode of transportation, or "fits the bill"...Again, times change.




Be interesting to see how things are in 10 years...values of the "used" modern ones, accessories available, not even going to start with the "reliability" rabbit hole, but will say my wife's mother owns a 2022 Discovery and sadly it has been in for repairs - A LOT. She calls for advice but it being new has to go to the shop. So, we shall see what the future holds for La...cough, cough "JLR".





Interesting article...and just my 2 cents.
 
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A.J.M

Explorer
It’s funny how Land Rover are apparently abandoning their heritage.

Yet where I live in central Scotland, the next town over has a very large farmers market, which has been on the go since before 1892.
Where they do regular livestock and machinery sales.

In among the rows of Japanese pick ups and Ford rangers.
Sits plenty of new Defenders, Discovery 4-5s, Mk2 Range Rover sports, Mk3-4 Full fat range rovers.
All with livestock or normal trailers attached.


The other curiosity is, Ineos has supposedly made something that is the go anywhere, do anything truck.
Why then, when compared side by side with the equivalent Defender 110…
Is the 110 faster, both to 60 and top speed.
More economical.
Safer.
Have over an inch better ground clearance.
4 inches better wading depth.
Better approach and departure angles.
Better payload.

I personally feel the author of that article is old man yells at clouds.
Land Rover is still selling class leading 4x4s.
The market is very different from when you could buy a series 1 in the dealer.

I’m sure someone will come along and say no Alan, you are wrong.
But this is my 2p worth.
 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
I think it's been made pretty clear that the Green Oval and the words L A N D R O V E R will still appear on Defenders and Discoveries going forward. Same with Jaguar - the Leaping Cat and the word jaguar will still be seen on whatever it is they make these days.

Rebranding Jaguar Land Rover as JLR just acknowledges what everyone already says with their mouths and/ or types with their fingers most often anyway.

Kinda funny how a bunch of people want to ascribe so much meaning to such a trivial matter.

When I go in to my dealer, which is thankfully quite rare, and generally only for periodic maintenance I don't want or have time to do myself, I always have a great conversation with the service manager and occasionally the sales manager who sold me mine about where we've all been lately. They love that I actually use it for the purpose intended.

But then again, I live in Colorado, not New York City or Los Angeles - I see newer LR's on the trails here frequently.

The bottom line is that Land Rover has to sell vehicles. If they only sold vehicles to people who take them off road as I do, they'd have gone out of business decades ago - in fact, the first gen Defender that was sold here...didn't really sell at all. Judging by the number of clean, shiny Tacos and lifted Rubis here, most kitted with full overland racks that don't have a lick of dust on them, Land Rover owners aren't any different than others.
 

utherjorge

Observer
I think this is a new-ish strategy, and we'll see if I'm right:

HBO just did this with their streaming platform. They renamed it "Max", losing all brand equity you think they would have. It's my personal belief that this happened so in 3 years (or, choose your own timeline) they can bring the name back for a quick equity jump start. See: Ford and Bronco.

With off-roading and overlanding (call it what you want) being so popular, and rough-looking vehicles printing money, what do you think the response would be if JLR tomorrow said "New Discovery: coming 2026"?

Toyota actually took the bait and dove right in. When they get their laurels, more will come in, and I suspect timing will coincide with stock bumps.
 
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DC DII

Member
I think this is a new-is strategy, and we'll see if I'm right:

HBO just did this with their streaming platform. They renamed it "Max", losing all brand equity you think they would have. It's my personal belief that this happened so in 3 years (or, choose your own timeline) they can bring the name back for a quick equity jump start. See: Ford and Bronco.

With off-roading and overlanding (call it what you want) being so popular, and rough-looking vehicles printing money, what do you think the response would be if JLR tomorrow said "New Discovery: coming 2026"?

Toyota actually took the bait and dove right in. When they get their laurels, more will come in, and I suspect timing will coincide with stock bumps.

Actually, that's a pretty good take on things - hadn't thought about it in that context.

With off-roading and overlanding (call it what you want)...

Wasn't that long ago when you would say you were "just going camping for a few weeks up in the mtns..." but overlanding does sound so much sexier :rolleyes::);)
 
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plainjaneFJC

Deplorable
View attachment 779087

Living in a TPC neighborhood (TPC= PGA Golf Sponsored Course) the response I get from new Land Rover owners (which there are a ton) is less than stellar. This is a rust free 2004 that is usually very clean, no rust, and the roof rack and tent are taken off to fit in the garage so...not an eyesore.

I have heard "nice Jeep", "nice Toyota" and "what exactly is that???" - all from new Land Rover owners the last 5 years - here in the neighborhood shops AND customers at the dealership... It used to be kinda' shocking, now just the norm. Even my wife has noticed the difference in new vs older Land Rover owners with her 2008 "Discovery 3" HSE Lux (which is a great truck) vs the new Discovery owners...really no brand recognition like Jeep owners and Toyota owners...which as it stands...I quite envy.

From above: "I don’t think JLR intend or want their vehicles to be seriously used offroad any more, but they need to retain some capability as a differentiator. True offroad owners are annoying; they know lots about the vehicle to irritate salespeople, they modify it, they complain about minor things that aren’t important to the company, they ask silly questions about how the 4×4 systems work, they use specialist mechanics, aftermarket companies start modifying the vehicles and people still expect warranty, the owners form clubs and ask for help, and enthusiasts start waving logos around at Places We Would Rather They Not, and generally behaving Off Brand."



Agree for the most part with the above quote as I remember days when I would pull up to the dealer in this, or one of my old Range Rover Classics, and most times a sales person would come out to take a look, snoop around, ask questions...not anymore. So I just order parts online as I feel the dealer really could care less about my simple purchase of an oil filter(I know, I get it) but used to love going in to have coffee and shoot the ******** with the parts guys, salesmen, etc...


I have put tens of thousands ($) in this truck since ownership which is now almost 18 years...drivetrain upgrades, suspension upgrades, complete interior restoration, accessories, and will own it for the rest of my life...I get it, times change. The last 4-5 years it's just become "the truck", not a DII, not a Land Rover, Disco, etc. which is kind of disheartening. Not embarrased to own an "old" Land Rover, just see the crazy disappointment when I point out my Land Rover to new car owners, Land Rover or other. Seems nowadays newer is always better (or expected). :)

I got a good one - that has never left me stranded or frustrated, and whether to be running errands or go offroading and camping for weeks, if not months, at a time, I still love climbing in and setting off.


Sadly, most new owners just aren't programmed that way. It's status, a mode of transportation, or "fits the bill"...Again, times change.




Be interesting to see how things are in 10 years...values of the "used" modern ones, accessories available, not even going to start with the "reliability" rabbit hole, but will say my wife's mother owns a 2022 Discovery and sadly it has been in for repairs - A LOT. She calls for advice but it being new has to go to the shop. So, we shall see what the future holds for La...cough, cough "JLR".





Interesting article...and just my 2 cents.
North Clear Creek Falls parking lot?
 

pangaea

Adventurer
A bit late to the party on this one, but I've the last 10 years or so its felt like Land Rover marketing has just been following the trends of what everyone else was doing instead of innovating and coming up with new ideas. In the early 2000s, all the other brands had these inscrutable letters and numbers for their models, so out with "Discovery" and in with "LR3". The last couple of years, Ram has rolled out from Dodge become its own "brand", same with "Mustang" and Ford. It feels like LR is just following the crowd. Don't get me started on the homogenized styling for things like the current Discover (which looks literally identical to an Explorer).

The saddest part IMO is when they launched the brands was the statement about how they were hoping to build Defender, Range Rover and Discovery into these brands that had passionate followers. FFS - You already had that with Land Rover!!!

I'm happy to see that Tata has made some strides in build quality and financial solvency for JLR, but I can't help but feel like they just don't "get" the Land Rover brand.
 

LRNAD90

Adventurer
As many have said, they simply cater to a different market these days, and I guess had to make the shift in ideology to stay profitable. The vast majority of new owners I meet seem to have little interest or knowledge in the brand's heritage, it is just a luxury vehicle that is 'cool' to bee seen in, and that seems to be the most important thing to the current clientele..

New Defender Owners..


(And yes, I am one of those older bearded enthusiasts that generally know far more about the vehicles than the dealer staff, and I'm sure they are happy I don't come around)
 

JackW

Explorer
My local dealer - Land Rover North Atlanta - recently removed all of the Jaguar signage from their showroom and no longer sells Jaguar automobiles - they are strictly Land Rover now. It would appear that adding the Defender to the Range Rover/Discovery families that they were already selling was a factor in pushing the Jaguar brand back down to the main dealership store in Buckhead. I think Jaguar sales are down to a point where it just wasn't worth devoting the floor space to that brand anymore. They sell a lot of Range Rovers and Defenders there however.
 

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