"Late" Series III Axles and Lockers

[racingjason]

Hello everyone,

I have been been doing a lot of reading lately about the various axle and locker/LSD combinations available (Including this extensive thread: http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7418) and it seems that everyone has an opinion has on the subject, (some being stronger than others). The way I see it, much of the debate is centred on the fact that different people use their vehicles in a wide variety conditions and so the arguing continues. At the risk of bringing yet another redundant thread to the internet I have decided ask ExPo members, in particular the LR owners, what they think. I am hoping that because the the forum is more expedition focused (rather than rock scrambling, mudbogging...) that you can make a sound decision that will suit my needs.

The vehicle is a 1980 Series III (109") RHD Dormobile, 200tdi, series gearbox and Fairy Overdrive on 7.50R16 tires. It has a Salisbury rear axle and the standard Rover front axle. Now my searches have not been able to conclusively determine if there is any difference in the front axles between the earlier and "late" Series III setups. As the truck is a 1980 it should be considered a "late" model but I have seen differing accounts of what this means, everything from 24 spline outer shafts to metric sizing. Is there anyone that can enlighten me on the (possible) differences?

My second conundrum comes in the selection of aftermarket lockers or limited slips. At this point I have narrowed it down to three options including ARBs, TrueTracs or a combination of the two. As I mentioned, this vehicle is intended for travel but has and will see snow, sand and dunes, rough pistes and (when unavoidable) mud. With the 200tdi I am not running big power, the largest tires I can see me using would be 33-34" and I am pretty easy on things. My concern is chiefly with the front axle.

Option (Question) 1: Is an ARB too much for the 10 spline? I know SeriesTrek makes a slick set of 24 splines for Series Rovers front but the expense makes me hesitate. On the other hand if I buy a 10 spline ARB and have to go to 24 spline axles and a new 24 spline ARB in the future it seems to be the old story that "a poor man pays twice".

Option 2: Is a rear ARB and the TrueTrac in the front. However, if I have invested in an ARB in the rear and have the compressor etc already should I just go with option 1? TeriAnn makes some good points about this ARB/lsd setup but she is also running the upgraded axles. Is the TrueTrac any easier on the front axles?

Option 3: TrueTracs front and rear. Inexpensive, simple but how much of a compromise is this given that it will be used primarily for expedition travel?

I guess the final option is a complete swap including front Salisbury or Toy axles etc. All the options seem to need some significant work or expense to make possible and would likely be overkill for me. Has anyone ever heard of someone using a Dana 60 in the front/rear of a LR rather than the Salisbury?

Any and all opinions welcome and appreciated.
Jason

 

[KevinNY]

For basic cross country travel I would just leave the front alone for now and drop a Tru Trac in the rear. I run dual ARB's but as you said, people use their trucks in different ways.

 

[racingjason]

Thanks for the reply, I meant to ask that question as well. Is a front even necessary or will the rear get me through most of the situations I would encounter?

 

[Alaska Mike]

On my trail Jeep, I have ARBs front and rear. I rarely turn the ARBs on at all, except for short bursts, and then mostly the rear one. The front one is used in very deep mudholes, and only in straight-driving situations.

The beauty of an ARB is the ability to turn it off, so there is no negative affect to steering. A non-selectable front traction aiding device will cause all sorts of interesting effects in places like slick sidehills. I've been there, and it isn't fun.

For a vehicle as heavy as the Dormobile with the stock front axle, I would consider just leaving the front open. Instead, I would consider a quality winch and the appropriate recover gear. A locker will get you deeper into trouble, a winch will get you out of trouble.

As for the rear, I think ARBs are an excellent unit. You might want to get the stronger (armored) air lines as a possible upgrade. You also might consider going with a better compressor than those that ARB offers, so you can build a good onboard air system.

 

[UofRichmondRover]

I would go with an ARB in the rear. Since you will be in snow, the ability to turn it off is great for side slope situations. For the additional cost to do the front, it doesn't seem like you will use it that much, you can always upgrade the front later.

 

[TeriAnn]

It appears that you have already read my position on diffs.

I think the front 10 spline is strong enough for the 200 tdi. I switched to the 24 spline because some used ones fell into my lap and I have a 5L V8. Most of the driving power is channeled through the rears. I drove my Land Rover for 20 years before I broke my first front axle and I suspect it was original equipment installed 38 years earlier.

I like a Trutrac up front because I don't like the idea of poor traction to a single front tyre eliminating any power to both front wheels. In the mud you might as well not bother to lock the front of open diffs. I don't use a locker up front because I like to work my front wheels to get the best bight on the edges when the going gets slushy. I've never noticed automatic torque biasing diff 'kick' in or out. What I have noticed is that the car does a better job of going where I point my wheels. I do think an upgrade to the stronger 4.75:1 R&P gears are worth doing though.

I don't like automatic lockers because they lock when they want to, oftentimes with unpredictable results. I seldom use the ARB. At the first sign of getting stuck, I'll kick it in before digging the vehicle down to frame level (I'm lazy and prefer driving out to vehicle recovery). I also use it for insurance on ascents where a failed ascent would mean a tricky back down.

Late SIII front axles were converted to metric and have 24 spline outer stub axles and 10 spline inner axles. Sorry I don't remember the year they converted Series rigs to Metric, but there are some parts that are different besides the stub axle.

A stock Salisbury rear should work just fine, but I don't like open diffs. I think it was from my first Land Rover off road impression. First time I went off road it was on a gentle grassy hill side. I had one front tyre slipping in damp grass and one rear tyre slipping in wet grass. A gentle slope with nothing but damp grass & my new Land Rover was stopped.

 

[Red Coat]

I have a Series IIa 109 on a 1 ton frame with an ARB in the Salisbury rear axle. The front is a standard 10 spline axle. This combination will work well for you in the use mode you describe. Certainly upgrades to the front axle would be very nice but mine has served me well even in relative hard use situations.

 

[I Leak Oil]

I have ARB's in both axles on my 88". The rear I converted to a salisbury but the front is still the standard 10 spline. I've had no issues to date with the front. The front doesn't get used much either. I think you, and most others, would be just as well off leaving the front open and going with a selectable locker in the rear. That will get you into plenty of trouble!
Cool truck by the way....
Jason T.

 

[racingjason]

Thanks for the advice everyone. The consensus seems to be stick with a rear locker for now so that is what I will do. I can reconsider my front options in the future as required. As for recovery, I have a cool old Warn 8074 winch that has been used but under cover for the last 30 years or so. When I get back to Canada, I will refurbish that unit to get me out of the trouble that the new locker will no doubt get me into.

Perhaps the following should be a new thread but does anyone have any experience with the Wolf style wheels on the Series trucks? I have heard that they fit but that may be at the expense of the already pathetic tuning radius. I was considering the "one-ton" steels which (apparently) do not have the same steering problems but require tubes which I am trying to get away from. I want to pick some new wheels up before I leave the UK as they seem very pricey back home.

 

[AAXD]

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but while we're on the subject of ARB's, does anyone have a complete list of what parts and tools are needed to put one in a Salisbury rear? I was looking into doing the conversion that everyone is talking about, as it seems best for an all around expedition truck. I think putting a locker in the front just increases your chance of breaking more stuff further from help. That and stage 1 CV's are just too rare to bust up.

 

[Alaska Mike]

You might do a search for "Dana 60 ring pinion install" on Google. That would give you an idea of what you're looking at. There's a reason I field that kind of work out.

At the minimum, I would expect to change the carrier bearings and pick up a shim kit. Some retailers may sell them as an "install kit".

 

[I Leak Oil]

If you're not changing the gears it's pretty straight forward but since a mistake can make it expensive you might want to have a pro do it. With that said, I'm no pro but I did both of my installs a few years ago with no issues to date.
Jason T.

 

[cabell]

Racingjason,
I have 1 ton (aka NAS 110) steel wheels on my 88. Try part # ANR1534PM.
No problem with radials. The offset improves turning radius significantly. They are hard to come by on this side of the pond, so best to source while you are in the UK. I think Britpart does a knock-off.

 

[Josh]

I'll weigh in on this one because it sounds like our rigs and intentions are similar.

Mine's a Carawagon, Salisbury rear (KAM R&Ps), and I intend to use it for "expedition" travel.

I'm leaning towards the Truetrac in the rear and leaving it at that. I've always yearned for an ARB (or two) but not in this vehicle and not for this purpose.

The Truetrac will give me an edge over a miserable open diff while reminding me that, as a expedition traveler far from home and parts, I have no business pushing the envelope off-road.

That said, I've accepted that recovery efforts are part of the "fun" and intend to travel prepared in that respect.

Also, in the expedition vein, I'm attracted to the dead simplicity of a rugged LSD and foregoing the ARB hardware/software.

Good luck whatever you do!

Kind regards, Josh

 

[TeriAnn]

Mine's a Carawagon, Salisbury rear (KAM R&Ps), and I intend to use it for "expedition" travel.

I love Carawagons, I just wish they had more head room inside. Do you have pictures of it on line? Which model do you have & with which options?

Maybe you can start a Carawagon thread?