Lighting set-ups: HID vs. LED

[McFly2003]

O.K. so I have a feeling this may turn into a bit of a debate, which is not my intention, but I am looking to start lighting up the night with my rig and am wondering the best direction to take.
I am planning on running lights on both my ARB and eventually a full length roof rack. I have run HID driving lights in the past and they were fantastic. The output, throw and range were all very much on point. I also had a Rigid bar that I never really had much of a chance to use but it definitely put out a butt load of light. I am well aware of the power draw advantages of going with LED over HID, as well as the lifespan and durability of the better LED's out there. I have, however, heard that while LED technology is great as is, you still wont get quite as much range out of them as you would with a comparable HID setup.
My other issue is my mounting options on my ARB. With the control box for my Warn sitting right in the middle, mounting options for an LED bar are a bit slim and I am looking for a bit more light than just some dually's or D2's (plus they'd look a bit goofy up there). While I know that I could relocate the box, if I don't have to, I don't really want to.
My plan WAS to run a set of HID driving'g lights or floods on the bumper with an SR series hybrid on top of the bumper bar (mounted to the antenna tabs), then a 30-40" e series on the rack.
Now that ARB has these new intensity lights out, it has me thinking, what to go with?

So, my question is this: HID, LED or both. AND what have you guys found to be the best setup of beam patterns for coverage/spread out in front of the truck. I want as much throw as possible while also getting as much spread as possible to light around curves and also allow me to spot possible wildlife before it tries to play chicken with me

 

[4x4junkie]

I have, however, heard that while LED technology is great as is, you still wont get quite as much range out of them as you would with a comparable HID setup.

'Tis true, though it's not entirely the technology itself that's limiting it...
All the light manufacturers seem stuck on LEDs with very high color temperatures (5000-6500°K). Such high-temp LEDs have a hugely intense spike deep within the blue light region, which our eyes cannot process as effectively as light more toward the green or yellow parts of the spectrum (to the point it causes more glare than anything else, at least for me anyway). This makes them appear to not "throw" as far.

A 4200K HID on the other hand throws more light in the spectrum our eyes respond better to, so it looks much brighter and throws farther w/less glare.
I would say stick with HID (or even halogen incandescent lights) for the moment if you want the best range.

If someone starts making LED units using something like 4000°K LEDs, things might change. Such LEDs still have a blue peak, but it's far less intense. As a side benefit, all the colors around you won't appear so washed out by the light either.

 

[88Xj]

Truthfully the LED's are FAR better for 0-400ft, maybe a little further! Hid's throw further than that yes, but the lighting from 0-400ft suffers. So its a trade off! You want the truth, tell us the truth

Do you need light 500-750ft down the road? Usually you need this much light that far when your going FAST in the desert! And now, even most prerunners/trophy trucks are switching to led all together or at least running a mix of both! Led's win straight up for 0-300ft or sligthly more. So I personally say run both, or run all LED. A couple Hid's on the bumper will throw light pretty darn far! LED on the roof will put light everywhere you can possibly need it! HID's on the roof = more drag = less mileage. The LED bar on the roof = less drag = more mileage. Either will preform better on the roof than the bumper though..so HID's on the bumper vs the roof = roof wins for distance & useable light. Same for led..because they are mounted higher it allows them to throw light further & wider. So again be truthful with yourself! Do you really need that light at 750ft? Or would you rather light up the world from 0-300ft. I do some desert running..45-60mph pending road conditions and I don't need anymore light than my LED's give me, in distance or width. And the fact that I can run yellow or amber lens makes them very easy on the eye.
I run a pair of my pods in yellow every day of the week. I run a clear 40" on my roof & a amber 20" on my bumper. The yellow pods are run anytime its dark outside, as well as my headlights. The 20" bar in amber just seems to cut the dust while in the desert better! I will say the clear/white reflects off the dust or snow back at you some, just like HID's do! The amber litterally cuts the dust! The yellow does to but not as well, better than clear, worse than amber.
My yellows run everyday, the amber is when I've got dust, or snow in front of me or when I feel like showing off a little. I run it in the mountains often actually when its safe & theres no on coming traffic! The clear/white 40" on my roof is always on while offering. Parked at our local highschool I measured my lights at their football field. 100yrds, plus both end zones & a little more..Id guess around 450-500ft is the distance they throw & easily wider than the field although I didn't actually measure.
Also to add HID's "light" stuff up but don't give you the depth. Like they don't light up dips or holes as well as the Halogen seem to. Its also true with LED's the clear/white just lights up but doesn't give that depth. While the amber led does seem to, similar to a Halogen. This is MY personal expireince with the lights, I run yellow, amber & clear on my personal rig as I think they all serve their purpose.

I used to run 7" Kragen HID's with 55W ballasts vs the normal 35W. They come in spot or euro. I tested them the same, in the same spot, they were Euro beam & they shot further yes but no where near the light output up close or as wide. I would say around 600ft honestly. Their spot pattern throws a wee bit further but has less useable light as they are litterally 2 small spots way out there. The euro is like a spot but is a wider..They just don't have the output needed unless aimed low which then takes away from their distance...These lights were actually stolen off my rig as well as a set of HID hella 500's. Once they were stolen I decided I would be done with Halogen & HID altogether. These lights were all run with 6000K bulbs, my hella 500's were 35W and the Kragens 55W. Its said that higher wattage bleaches out some color..so a 6000K at 35W would be true 6000K, while at 55W it would be closer to 5000K. They were both actually very very close in color, enough that if they were both on you'd hardly know the difference besides for the distance.

 

[Hilldweller]

Almost all of the LED lights in the genre you're talking about have too much foreground lighting and constrict your pupils.

How fast will you be going with them? If you're running fast, you don't want your foreground illuminated. If you're crawling, yes you do.

Lights are application specific.

For real driving lights with LED sources, ones that work, you have to look at a reputable company like JW Speaker or Trucklite. The other popular offroad brands are suitable for only that, offroad.
HID has lots of similar players and you need a fine-tooth comb to tell them apart.
I wouldn't nominate any HID product as a true driving light since they require a warm-up period. But for offroad use, I still see them as the overall winner.

If cost were no object I'd choose JW Speaker TS3000 for my driving lights, some Rigid Duallies for very low-mount close-work slow-speed stuff (like back up and rock lights), and Hella 4000 compact HIDs for trail.
If I had to pay for it, I'd pick Hella 4000 Euro for driving lights, a pair of Duallies for back-up, and a pair of Hella Optilux HIDs for trail, declare victory, and go camping.

 

[bjowett]

My research into HID vs LED is a bit limited right now, but it does appear (someone please feel free to argue this) that HID still out performs LED in many areas. The wattage required to get a LED lamp to perform as well as a similar HID is quite a bit more. Lamps being only similar, and some with downright horrible reflectors, makes it a little difficult to compare.... but we can try. Take the 4000 series HID light from Hella, which seems to be the standard, or at least the style that many are gunning for.... compare it to the new 900 LED from ARB. While the 900 LED beams offered have a massively strong isolux rating/pattern in the first 10 meters, there is no need for it, and it is burning 90W to get it.... Compared to the 4000 HID 35W, which is much better in the medium and long distance. Isn't the whole point of the LED stuff to be more efficient? The LED lights are are rated for thousands of life hours over an HID capsule, but that rating is at an ideal temperature... stacking 32 of those little buggers together creates a lot of heat, enough that the housings are all finned heat sinks... so how long will they really last? I'm not against the LED stuff at all... it just doesn't appear to stack up at this point.

 

[mogwildRW1]

An issue up here, is the LED's quite often don't get hot enough to melt snow. So if your driving and its even lightly snowing out, LED's might not cut it. The back where the heat sink gets hot enough, but that doesn't help where you need to through light.

 

[VanIsle_Greg]

An issue up here, is the LED's quite often don't get hot enough to melt snow. So if your driving and its even lightly snowing out, LED's might not cut it. The back where the heat sink gets hot enough, but that doesn't help where you need to through light.

I never thought of this? Very good point.

 

[mogwildRW1]

Usually, they get pretty hot when stopped (which you would think is a good thing to melt snow) but when you get driving, they cool down to just "warm". This is bad, the once hot light has started to melt the snow, now, the rest of the snow is sticking to the ice created, and near impossible to chip off.

Just food for thought, at least up here

Funny story, they replaced a bunch of traffic lights in my hometown with the new "high efficient, never have to change a bulb" LED units, in the summer. Then, found out in the winter, they cake up with snow (due to the 1/2 can that covers the light to keep sunlight from bleeding out the light and color) so they looked into heaters (so much for efficient) and eventually, swapped back to good ol' fashion bulbs.

 

[88Xj]

An issue up here, is the LED's quite often don't get hot enough to melt snow. So if your driving and its even lightly snowing out, LED's might not cut it. The back where the heat sink gets hot enough, but that doesn't help where you need to through light.

Great point & 99% accurate! I don't live in a snowy climate (desert) so I didn't worry about this, but its something to think about! The few times I've dealt with snow on the lens, it would melt off but we are talking like 32* even & maybe 2" on the ground. Minimal amount on the lens but it did melt of. If there was a decent layer or ice, then I do not think it would melt. Mine experience is with more of a powder snow/dust on the lens.

As far as wattage between the 2 lights, LED's don't pull power like halogen or HID. My 10" bar is 30 watts, but only pulls 1.8A. Thats less than half of a SINGLE 35W halogen! A pair of 35W halogen or HID's = 8A power draw vs 1.8A of a 10" bar. So don't get caught in how much wattage these LED's are because the power they pull is far far less!

 

[88Xj]

To add with my LED light I have, I also have 2 4000's that are converted to 55W hid & I'll be mounting them on my Apillar or my windshield cowl. Idk if I have the guts to drill holes in my Apillar or not yet lol, the cowl plastic piece is easily replaced, hole sin the Apillar not so much!
Anyway I'm going to run them but don't NEED them in anyway for what I'm doing. I'm putting them on my rig as overkill..kinda like my house is faster than your horse type thing!

 

[ExploringNH]

I won't go into depth but I had two 7" HID lights mounted along with two Rigid 10" SR bars on the front of my Defender. The HID lights threw a little bit farther but their warm-up time and "vibration" led me to use the LED bars nearly 100% of the time. If I were building another rig I would leave out the HID lights for sure.

I also had a 30" dual row bar mounted but I didn't include that in this comparison because it doesn't compare. Too much power.

Comparison:
http://forums.exploringnh.com/showt...ing-achampagne&p=241359&viewfull=1#post241359

 

[bjowett]

Watts = amps x volts. HID won't draw any more during operation, they do draw 8+ amps when starting up.

HID puts out more lumens (from the source) per watt than LED.

LED is attempting to run off this silly green movement, when it is actually less efficient.

Comparing two inexpensive 7" Rugged Ridge HID lights to a 30" dual row light bar... what's the amp draw on that bad boy... more than 70W, I'll bet.

 

[xcmountain80]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking about this. I too wondered what I really need, I run late into the night at speeds between 55-70mph on paved roads (illegal to run this type of light on public roads). I've had a set of Light Force 240's 35W HID for as long as I can remember. They are bright, too bright sometimes, as the 4Runner is no race truck and the chances of out-driving the LF240's is very unlikely with my application. I wanted more foreground but realized if a large mammal is close enough to be lit by the foreground lighting it's too late and an impact is immanent. I like that the LED technology of what appears to be range is catching the HID's but you pay for it $$. Curious to see how this goes, I'm not sure if true DOT legality was mentioned or is even an issue in your decision.

A

 

[McFly2003]

Great information, folks! Keep it coming

 

[mtbikerTi]

LED's and metal halide (HID) are very similar in efficacy (lumens/watt), but LED's do have the edge. The major issue with LED's is that most of the light bar makers aren't using the newest and most efficient LED's, and they aren't using the best optics for distance. There is a lot of information out there on the difficulty in getting an LED to "throw", due to the fact that an LED emits light from a relatively large surface, whereas an HID or other filament bulb produces the light from more or less a "point source". Search around for LED and aspheric optic and you'll see what kind of distance is possible.
Aspheric optics take up space though, and people want a light bar with 8 gazillion lumens and don't really care if it's all foreground light or not. A good light bar design would probably include several aspheric lenses for distance as well as more traditional optics/reflectors for fill. It would take a lot of R & D to get a really good beam pattern as you have to design multiple beam shapes to interact with each other and spread the light out. It's a lot more profitable to just put a bunch of LED's in a bar and call it a day.