Looking for a hand held 1st HAM

[wildmed]

So. I am looking to buy my 1st Ham radio. It must be a handheld that can be modified to TX through 170 to be used as my radio for MTN rescue( after it is approved and everything). Its other purpose would be for safety and coms during mountaineering, alpine climbing and long backpacking trips.I am interested in the possibilities of APRS/gps but I am not sure I fully understand its capabilities. Could they be used to send a distress signal and an exact GPS location, somewhat similar to what a spot messenger would do? Sorry if i sound naive, I am very new to the HAM radio world and am looking to take my test sometime soon! Does anyone have any suggestions on good models to look at? I have mostly been looking at yaesu but im open. Can someone better brief me on the true capabilities of APRS as well?

 

[SilverBullet]

Not sure if it will work for all your modifications, but a used HTX-202 is a good portable radio that is easy to modify because it is a bit larger. I still have one for my hand held needs, and it operates wonderfully.

 

[1911]

I am interested in the possibilities of APRS/gps but I am not sure I fully understand its capabilities. Could they be used to send a distress signal and an exact GPS location, somewhat similar to what a spot messenger would do? ... Can someone better brief me on the true capabilities of APRS as well?

Yes, an APRS setup connected to a GPS will broadcast an exact location (as accurate as your GPS position) and can send and receive text messages too. But a hand-held (5-watt) HT is not going to do that well for you, unless you are very close to a 2M repeater system. For most back-country travel, you are going to want a mobile radio capable of putting out 50-75 watts on 2M to have any chance of getting your APRS beacons out and received by another node. Even then, it will depend on the distance to a repeater and the line-of-sight.

As an example, last May I beaconed APRS for an entire trip from Texas to southern Utah, down The Dugway, up Combs Ridge, down into Dark/Peavine/Hammond/Mule Canyons, into the Beef Basin and Ruin Park, then into The Needles District of Canyonlands, and finally back to civilization and back home. I was using a Kenwood TM-D710A radio with 50 watts of power, and a less-than-optimal 1/2-wave antenna. Over 10 days of travel, I got pretty good beacons out the majority of the time, even in the back country - because there are 2M repeaters way up high on Abajo Peak and Navajo Mountain, among others. But down in the canyon bottoms, I could not get a beacon out; the canyon walls were too steep for my rig to "see" the high peaks nearby. Bottom line is, APRS utility will be determined by location (availability of repeaters or other APRS stations near your travel), your radio power, and how good your antenna set-up is.

 

[xtatik]

So. I am looking to buy my 1st Ham radio. It must be a handheld that can be modified to TX through 170 to be used as my radio for MTN rescue( after it is approved and everything). Its other purpose would be for safety and coms during mountaineering, alpine climbing and long backpacking trips.I am interested in the possibilities of APRS/gps but I am not sure I fully understand its capabilities. Could they be used to send a distress signal and an exact GPS location, somewhat similar to what a spot messenger would do? Sorry if i sound naive, I am very new to the HAM radio world and am looking to take my test sometime soon! Does anyone have any suggestions on good models to look at? I have mostly been looking at yaesu but im open. Can someone better brief me on the true capabilities of APRS as well?

Can't get there from here. You won't be able to legally use a radio that hasn't been FCC type accepted for use outside the amateur bands or in that frequency range.
However, you may be able to find a radio that works in reverse. Some broad spectrum commercial radios may work for both purposes.
APRS is fun and sometimes handy. I think most find it's a novelty that wheres off quickly. It did for me.
If you already have a handheld GPS, I'd say don't bother with redundantly picking up one of the all-in-wonder HT units and just find a basic dualband HT. If you need to let people know where you are, simply look at your GPS, then transmit and tell them your coords.
If weight savings is a concern then by all means, get the all-in-wonder HT. Unfortunately I don't think there are any commercial units put together this way. Again, most of the amateur units are not type certified for use in the public service spectrum and can't be legally modified to xmit in those bands.

 

[wildmed]

"You won't be able to legally use a radio that the FCC has type accepted for the amateur bands in that frequency range.
However, you may be able to find a radio that works in reverse. Some broad spectrum commercial radios may work for both purposes."
Huh.... well this is the model i have been looking at...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vertex-VX-6R-Du...Radios_FRS&hash=item563fe215ac#ht_3639wt_1141 it says something about a MARS/CAPS modification that can make it tx in higher frequencies. I have also been told by several people on the team that you can. I wish I could have a higher power radio but it must be handheld because almost all of my endeavors are on foot/hand&foot or by human powered boat. My truck is almost solely a mode to get me to a jumping off point:REOutCampFire03: Bummer about APRS, but the original reason for my interest in HAM stems from its ability to be able to give detailed info in a backcountry emergency, not just a location, so it does not matter that much!
Thanks for the input!

 

[gary in ohio]

Not sure if it will work for all your modifications, but a used HTX-202 is a good portable radio that is easy to modify because it is a bit larger. I still have one for my hand held needs, and it operates wonderfully.

While the HTX 202 is a nice radio its pretty old now. They usually go for $50 and why not spend another $40-$50 and get a brand new radio instead of a 15 year old model that most likely will need new batteries.

Used handheld (and often mobiles) are usually not a good deal considering the price of new gear out there.

 

[rambrush]

You might want to google the Kenwood TH-F6 or the Yaesu's to see what they are capable of.

 

[wildmed]

"None of the Yaesu HT's mentioned will transmit on the band you referred to without illegally modifying them. The oft mentioned MARS/CAPS mods are illegal to use, ironically it's not illegal to make the actual mods. "

So after talking to some more people on the team, I have to have a completely separate approval from the county and the team to be able to TX on those frequencies at all on a personal rado. Once I am approved it is legal to tx on the county/state channels for official SAR functions. Does anyone know of any good commercial radios that tx on amateur bands for personal use? It sounds like that may be a little bit more legitimate. I know that this is kind of a funky situation but im really trying to avoid having 3 separate radios in my truck and a antenna farm on my roof

 

[ratkin]

I don't know the frequencies or FCC type acceptance required of radios to operate for MARS/CAP use, but there are a few positive posts on the WOUXUN KG-UVD1P Dual Band FM HT in this thread: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26991&page=4 I first heard of the radio on this thread, and am thinking about getting one myself, since I just got my license.

Here's a review in QST Magazine that indicates that it has a certification grant for Part 90 operation.

The newer KG-UV2D is $107.95 at the US distributor.

Hope this helps!
- Richard

 

[ScoutII]

My Ham radio is moded to transmit on all frequencies. In an emergency you can used it. No questions asked.

If its a SAR mission you really need one of the SAR radios to talk if there outside of HAM bands. You can listen NP. Here they use HAM legal bands

Emergency is when life or property is in danger.

I would look more at what others in your group are using. I use the FT60 for an HT as that is what everyone uses. This way we can swap batterys and help each other with progamming.

 

[gary in ohio]

My Ham radio is moded to transmit on all frequencies. In an emergency you can used it. No questions asked.

If its a SAR mission you really need one of the SAR radios to talk if there outside of HAM bands. You can listen NP. Here they use HAM legal bands

Emergency is when life or property is in danger.

I would look more at what others in your group are using. I use the FT60 for an HT as that is what everyone uses. This way we can swap batterys and help each other with progamming.

Care needs to be taken when making these statements... First it must be an emergency, AN IMMEDIATE life threatening issue. Not something that could turn life threatening, not something that is bad, but immediate threat to life before the rule comes into play.

Second if your job is "emergency" support such as police, fire or even SAR you cant use ham radio and say its an emergency. While you can use your ham radio to listen to SAR frequencies, you will in most cases never use it for transmitting. And after 2013 when public safety all goes narrow band, your ham gear will be even less usefull on a SAR frequency, Will still work but transmitting will be to wide for the narrow bandwidth channels.

 

[ScoutII]

Care needs to be taken when making these statements... First it must be an emergency, AN IMMEDIATE life threatening issue. Not something that could turn life threatening, not something that is bad, but immediate threat to life before the rule comes into play.

Second if your job is "emergency" support such as police, fire or even SAR you cant use ham radio and say its an emergency. While you can use your ham radio to listen to SAR frequencies, you will in most cases never use it for transmitting. And after 2013 when public safety all goes narrow band, your ham gear will be even less usefull on a SAR frequency, Will still work but transmitting will be to wide for the narrow bandwidth channels.

Here we use ham radios to talk with the helicopter pilots to help with the landing. Been through a couple classes, good thing I have a laminated card in case I need to do it We preform this service in the back county where cell ph don't work.
Its much easier to find help on the HAM bands then outside of them.
I can call 911, but you need spend a bit of time trying to explain that your on a HAM radio and for them to not hang up when you let your finger off the mic button. Talking on a fire or police channel creates a lot of confusion as they are trying to figure out how your talking with them.
As yes your right it better be an emergency. A freind went to court over the issue for using bands outside of HAM. Told the judge the story and BAM it was dismissed. :victory:

 

[xtatik]

Here we use ham radios to talk with the helicopter pilots to help with the landing. Been through a couple classes, good thing I have a laminated card in case I need to do it We preform this service in the back county where cell ph don't work.
Its much easier to find help on the HAM bands then outside of them.
I can call 911, but you need spend a bit of time trying to explain that your on a HAM radio and for them to not hang up when you let your finger off the mic button. Talking on a fire or police channel creates a lot of confusion as they are trying to figure out how your talking with them.
As yes your right it better be an emergency. A freind went to court over the issue for using bands outside of HAM. Told the judge the story and BAM it was dismissed. :victory:

A local court has no jurisdiction over these issues. They are Federal issues and are adjudicated by the FCC. It is completely illegal for you to be using a Part 97 radio outside the Amateur Service spectrum.

 

[ScoutII]

A local court has no jurisdiction over these issues. They are Federal issues and are adjudicated by the FCC. It is completely illegal for you to be using a Part 97 type certified radio outside the Amateur Service spectrum.

You reading more into my post then what there, but thats not the point! You can use what ever is at you means to get help when there is an emergency, so your post neglects the real purpose of HAM radio.
Sounds like I steps on your toes, so heres the truth. click here


Subpart E—Providing Emergency
Communications
97.401 Operation during a disaster.
97.403 Safety of life and protection of property.
97.405 Station in distress.
97.407 Radio amateur civil emergency service.


97.111 part 3
Transmissions necessary to exchange
messages with a station in another
FCC-regulated service while providing
emergency communications

I wont even count armed forces day when you can talk with the military.

Your statement "It is completely illegal for you to be using a Part 97 type certified radio outside the Amateur Service spectrum"
Is totally false:victory:

I'm not talking SAR where your looking for somebody either.

 

[xtatik]

You reading more into my post then what there, but thats not the point! You can use what ever is at you means to get help when there is an emergency, so your post neglects the real purpose of HAM radio.
Sounds like I steps on your toes, so heres the truth. click here


Subpart E—Providing Emergency
Communications
97.401 Operation during a disaster.
97.403 Safety of life and protection of property.
97.405 Station in distress.
97.407 Radio amateur civil emergency service.


97.111 part 3
Transmissions necessary to exchange
messages with a station in another
FCC-regulated service while providing
emergency communications

I wont even count armed forces day when you can talk with the military.

Your statement "It is completely illegal for you to be using a Part 97 type certified radio outside the Amateur Service spectrum"
Is totally false:victory:

I'm not talking SAR where your looking for somebody either.

I think you're misunderstanding my post and what others are trying to make clear here. I understand Part 97 very, very well. But, thanks for posting it here just the same.
The Amateur service as well as public service radio services are allowed to use (share) spectrum only when there is an immediate threat to life or property type of emergency and only when their own assigned service has failed them. In an immediate emergency a fireman cannot use the amateur service to direct a helicopter in if his own radio service is functional and would serve the same. A policeman cannot use the amateur service to communicate with other police officers or agencies if their own service is functional and would serve the same.
It is very, very rare that even RACES or ARES groups would transmit outside of the amateur spectrum in emergency or disaster situations.
Additionally, the Amateur Radio Service was never primarily intended to be an emergency radio service. It's primary purpose is to set aside spectrum for radio hobbyists. It's just circumstance that radio hobbyists can and have been helpful during emergencies and disasters.
http://www.arrl.org/news/it-seems-to-us-not-an-emergency-radio-service