Lower Control Arms Help!

[ttora4runner]

I normally don't post tech help on this forum but I need some help (yes, I've posted this on other forums).



For the past few months I've had an issue with my 4runner that I haven't been able to fiqure out. Whenever I brake my vehicle will pull to the left then jerk back to the right and will occasionally do this at low speeds as well. Secondly, whenever I make a hard right turn the right wheel will (it's only one wheel that does it, not sure which one)squeals. The steering wheel alignment is also off, cocked more towards the left, try to keep it straight at it starts varing right.

On top of that a few months back I got a weird vibration though the steering wheel/column will accelerating from a stop (has only happened once).

My intial thought was that the brake pads were worn and that the rotors were warpped. Well, I changed the pads which didn't show any signs of abnormal wear and rotors showed no signs of warppage. At the same time I did the wheel bearing check while it was jacked up and didn't notice anything our of the ordinary.

Still no luck. I've replaced the front sway bar bushings thinking that was part of the problem and still nothing. CV's, ball joints and tie rod ends so no sign of leakage or excessive wear. The steering rack was replaced earlier in the year.

I was oringially thinking of just driving it till it breaks but with the weather starting to turn crappie I decided that it may not be the best idea. Wasn't the best idea to begin with I know.

So I take it in to the dealership (one of the more trusted ones in the area) since ***-* and another repair shop in the area suck!

So they have it all morning and part of the afternoon trying to fiqure out what it is. I get a call about 3pm with the service guy telling me that its the lower control arms are bad and that it needs a T-angle alignment.

So my questions are thus

1. How in the world do contorl arms go bad (lower in the case)? Isn't it the bushings that go bad?
2. How would the control arms going bad cause the above problems? Neither myself nor my brother can fiqure this one out.
3. Would the above problem be more of a wheel bearing problem? This is what we are kind of quess. Though I don't have any weird noises that would indicate this or notice any problems when I did the quick test (mentioned above).
4. If it is the control arm bushings would it be just easier to replace the whole control instead of dealing with trying to press new bushings in.
5. The dealer also mentioned that I need a T-angle alignment.
6. Any other ideas.
7. Estimated cost of repairs they guy gave me was $831 :bash:taking into account a 10% discount.


I've done some reading on the internet on control arm bushings and wheel bearings for possible issues and it seems like there are mixed review and unanswered questions on it.

So do you all have suggestions and does the above comments make sense.

This sucks cause it's my only vehicle.



I'm giving the dealer a call back tomorrow to complain a bit (I normally don't do this) because my 4runner drives even crappier now after they looked at it. The steering wheel is now cocked to the right and it makes a squealing type sound now when turning (left or right) or when going over bumps. Steering is still crappie though it doesn't pull when braking.

 

[SOAZ]

Crawl under and look at the upper rear control arms. They are like torsion bar material and over time the weld on the metal surrounding the bushing will give way and give some of the symptoms of what your talking about.
You can pick them up for cheap at junk yards. $20 or so.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Hey Tearron, sorry to hear your having issues.

T-bars often do mean torsion bars, but you 2000 doesn't have them?? 86-95' 4Runners did but starting in 96' they went back to a strut/coil assembly in the front. He could be referring to a Track Bar (aka a Panhard Bar). The stock ones are not adjustable but some aftermarket ones are. Do you have an adjustable track bar?

I agree that control arms dont wear out. They can bend or break but if the bushings are worn out, replace the bushings not the entire arm.

 

[MotoDave]

Everything you've described sounds like either a ball joint or a tie rod end is loose, or maybe a a-arm bushing on the frame end, especially since it seems to act up when its under load such as braking or turning. I would put the front of the truck on jack stands and try to wiggle each joint. Pushing/pulling on the top/bottom of the wheel should show loose ball joints. Have someone hold the steering wheel in place and push side to side on the wheel which should show worn out tie rod ends. Worst case, go through the front end and replace bushings and ball joints, I'd be surprised if you cant do it all for ~$200-300.

 

[ttora4runner]

Did some more reading and I'm assuming that the T-angle alignment that was mentioned is a thrust angle alignment

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=4

From some of the reading I've done (this is where I get the mixed the reviews)is that it's just easier to replace the control arms w/ the bushings already installed than having to mess with pressing out the old and putting in new.

I'm going to talk with them about that tomorrow. I prefer to go this route (replace the bushings). :sombrero:


On the junkyard ones my brother and I talked for close to an hour tonight debating that.


Fixed comment #5 misread the comment.

 

[keezer37]

I would put the front of the truck on jack stands and try to wiggle each joint. Pushing/pulling on the top/bottom of the wheel should show loose ball joints.

X2. This is how these items are always checked. Always look for up/down movement on ball joints including the balls of the tie rod ends and back/forth movement for the bushings of the control arms.
If the ball joints are bad and they are an integrated part of the LCA's then the entire arm needs to be replaced.
If it's the bushings on the LCA's then of course replacing just the bushings would be cheaper but I would check the movement of the ball joints of the LCA's when they are off the truck for any sloppiness and make a decision whether to replace the entire arm or not factoring in labor costs.

Tell the mechanic or service writer that you want to understand what is going on and to take you out in the shop and show you.

 

[Jeff Wanamog]

Try this.

Replacing bushings in a rig that is the age of yours is always a good idea. But you said the r&p had recently been replaced. Do yourself a favor and do the rack bushings first. Have the truck aligned and have the shop check the castor bolts even if they don't have to change the castor.

My .02.
Hope this helps.
Let us know how it comes out.
Jeff

 

[Vermejo]

When was the last time the truck was aligned? You may try getting a good alignment before you go further with diagnosis. Has the truck been in an accident (p/o)? Do you have uneven tread wear or scrubbing on a particular tire or single side of the truck? Have you taken measurements to see if your tires are equidistant from each other? You may try taking multiple measurements to confirm your rear axle is not off too. I’m pretty sure you have a SS rear pan-hard bar; is it adjusted properly for your lift?

I replaced my passenger side LCA after tweaking it on the trail. The new one came complete with bushings. I did both lower ball joints at the same time…sounds like you already addressed those.

HERE is a post I made addressing front-end problem diagnosis. Some of the info may translate for your issue.

Good Luck!

 

[ttora4runner]

When was the last time the truck was aligned? You may try getting a good alignment before you go further with diagnosis. Has the truck been in an accident (p/o)? Do you have uneven tread wear or scrubbing on a particular tire or single side of the truck? Have you taken measurements to see if your tires are equidistant from each other? You may try taking multiple measurements to confirm your rear axle is not off too. I’m pretty sure you have a SS rear pan-hard bar; is it adjusted properly for your lift?

I replaced my passenger side LCA after tweaking it on the trail. The new one came complete with bushings. I did both lower ball joints at the same time…sounds like you already addressed those.

HERE is a post I made addressing front-end problem diagnosis. Some of the info may translate for your issue.

Good Luck!

Thanks. Ya, Steve Schaffer did the install of the lift which included the pan-hard bar.

My 4runner has had 3 alignments (all this summer) one when the lower bJ on the dirvers side was replaced then when the steering rack was replaced and a week later after that due to some issues still.

 

[dport]

I FEEL YA, BROTHER!!!!!! I just dumped a grand into my 01 this summer replacing everything. Took it to a new shop and it was a loose camber bolt. Really P'd me off because it wasn't caught during the other alignments. Also if it's not that check the mounting bolts on the LBJ's and the BG's themselves, as well as tie rod ends. These will cause an issue. I hope this saves you a set of tires, because mine are trashed. My alignment was shifting back and forth during driving, which is awesome when you don't know which way lurched when you hit a bump. I had the tire squeel as well

 

[ttora4runner]

I'll throw some drama into this.

Tuesday afternoon at closing time I go and pick my 4runner up while I decide to what to do. The guys brings be vehicle up to front for me too pick up and I drive off. As soon as I hit the first bump my 4runner goes all over the place and starts making the sreeching sounds as if the tires were being dragged (kind of like that sound when you spin your tires on the asphalt).

Well the dealer is know closed so I take it home.

Wednesday morning I have too be a jobsite early so I drive my vehicle to work at this time it wasn't making the sound until I get closer to work. So I leave my vehicle at work and take one of the company cars to the site for day. All the while thinking what am I going to go about this (the dealer was closed wehn I got home). Well, on my way home work the tires make the sound all the way down the highway and back into my apartment.

When I finally get back to my apartment I straighten out the wheel and get out to look at the front end to my surpise both front tires when toed in kind of like this \ /. I just think what the crap did they do to my vehicle yesterday while looking at it.

This morning I ended up call the shop requesting them to take my vehicle back in because of this that and my front tires now show signs of major wear and you can tell they have been dragging (that what it looks like). When I pull my 4runner into the shop about 730 this morning everyone in thier (about 10 or so people)just turn and listen as my 4runner pulls in.

The service manager (the one I've been working with)comes and says "that ain't right!" and we both crack a joke about the problem. So now my 4runner is back in the shop while they fix this problem and yes I'm probable stupid for doing this as well but they are going to fix the previous problem I mentioned. I was able to talk them $200 by have them price match the parts online (thank you Camelback Toyota in Arizona).

They are also going to cut a deal on the work because of this latest issue after they screwed it up the other day.

So now I'm driving a natural gas Honda Civic that I borrowed from work to get back up to the jobsite tomorrow.

The parts will hopefully, be in by tomorrow and I'll have my 4runner back tomorrow afternoon. Fingers, toes and eyes are crossed.

End drama.

 

[zolo]

I normally don't post tech help on this forum but I need some help (yes, I've posted this on other forums).



For the past few months I've had an issue with my 4runner that I haven't been able to fiqure out. Whenever I brake my vehicle will pull to the left then jerk back to the right and will occasionally do this at low speeds as well. Secondly, whenever I make a hard right turn the right wheel will (it's only one wheel that does it, not sure which one)squeals. The steering wheel alignment is also off, cocked more towards the left, try to keep it straight at it starts varing right.

On top of that a few months back I got a weird vibration though the steering wheel/column will accelerating from a stop (has only happened once).

My intial thought was that the brake pads were worn and that the rotors were warpped. Well, I changed the pads which didn't show any signs of abnormal wear and rotors showed no signs of warppage. At the same time I did the wheel bearing check while it was jacked up and didn't notice anything our of the ordinary.

Still no luck. I've replaced the front sway bar bushings thinking that was part of the problem and still nothing. CV's, ball joints and tie rod ends so no sign of leakage or excessive wear. The steering rack was replaced earlier in the year.

I was oringially thinking of just driving it till it breaks but with the weather starting to turn crappie I decided that it may not be the best idea. Wasn't the best idea to begin with I know.

So I take it in to the dealership (one of the more trusted ones in the area) since ***-* and another repair shop in the area suck!

So they have it all morning and part of the afternoon trying to fiqure out what it is. I get a call about 3pm with the service guy telling me that its the lower control arms are bad and that it needs a T-angle alignment.

So my questions are thus

1. How in the world do contorl arms go bad (lower in the case)? Isn't it the bushings that go bad?
2. How would the control arms going bad cause the above problems? Neither myself nor my brother can fiqure this one out.
3. Would the above problem be more of a wheel bearing problem? This is what we are kind of quess. Though I don't have any weird noises that would indicate this or notice any problems when I did the quick test (mentioned above).
4. If it is the control arm bushings would it be just easier to replace the whole control instead of dealing with trying to press new bushings in.
5. The dealer also mentioned that I need a T-angle alignment.
6. Any other ideas.
7. Estimated cost of repairs they guy gave me was $831 :bash:taking into account a 10% discount.


I've done some reading on the internet on control arm bushings and wheel bearings for possible issues and it seems like there are mixed review and unanswered questions on it.

So do you all have suggestions and does the above comments make sense.

This sucks cause it's my only vehicle.



I'm giving the dealer a call back tomorrow to complain a bit (I normally don't do this) because my 4runner drives even crappier now after they looked at it. The steering wheel is now cocked to the right and it makes a squealing type sound now when turning (left or right) or when going over bumps. Steering is still crappie though it doesn't pull when braking.

I had a similar problem. I had my front end aligned and the shop left the lower control arm bolt loose. The truck drove like a dump truck. It also made a terrible noise under breaking and turning. Also the same noise under load switches like starting off on a hill and letting off clutch in 1st gear. So I had the shop that did the alignment re-align the truck and make sure the lower control arm was tight. This fixed the problem of the truck driving bad but the damage had already been done. The Toyota lower control arms are very stout and very simple. But the bushing has a metal sleeve inside the rubber bushing with a factory pressed washer on each end on the inner metal sleeve. Im my case the pressed washer broke away from the inner metal sleeve and created a terrible popping and squeking noise it was bad, sounded bad, drove bad, made the whole truck "pop" when the loads and truck shifted because of the pressed washer was all over the map. I did replace the lower arm. I bought it from LKQ auto dismantlers. They are a nation wide type company and have location all over. They delivered the part to my shop and I did the work no prob. I had in re-aligned by a "good" shop and no noise no "pop" and it drives straight. If that lower arm bushing comes apart the truck will raise H@ll...

 

[ttora4runner]

The problem has been resolved. :victory:

 

[Jeff Wanamog]

The problem has been resolved. :victory:

You can't do that!
Please tell us what you found.
Jeff

 

[ttora4runner]

You can't do that!
Please tell us what you found.
Jeff

Went ahead and replaced both lower control arms, bushings and all (they were going to charge me the same $$ to just replace the bushings).

The noise is now gone when turning and going over bumps.