Need Advice on SMB

[jackflash]

Me and the wife have been talking about either getting a new SMB or a new truck with a camper in the back for a while now. We have finally made our choice, we want a SMB. One problem though, I am sure most of you already know, Ford doesn't make the E-Series van with a Diesel any more. What is that all about. We really like the SMBs, but with out a Diesel, we might have to change our minds. I don't know much about the V10 but I do know about diesels and I can't see the V10 holding up to a diesel in towing and longevity. Which is what you would want in an RV right?

Help me out here, what would be better, a diesel truck with a camper or a SMB with the V10.

Or we could just go with a Tiger, but we really like the SMB. It seems it would be better for us, with the RB not being much larger than a Suburban. Any comments?

 

[1leglance]

first of all, you are in for some fun no matter what you get...they are all great choices.
Also I would recommend the sportsmobileforum.com as another great resource

SMB West (the only one of the three I would let build me anything) can build on a used diesel Ford van, plus I think they just got a batch of 2010 diesels. You can check their website or better yet give them a call, great people.

On the diesel vs gas thing, it really comes down to is you plan to tow and if you play to keep it forever.
The 6.0L engine would not meet new diesel emission req's and the new engine would not fit in the van, thus no more oilburners.

I love my Sportsmobile 6L diesel as I do alot of offroad driving, alot of sitting and idling and just plain ol' love the sound. However I more than likely would have been fine with the gas.

Another nice thing about getting something 2010 and older is no worry on the ULSD fuel finding in Mexico, if you go there at all that is.

On the RB vs EB, well you mention you wife but no kids, if it is just the 2 of you then a RB is ok but the extra space of an EB is really amazing, and I wheel mine. Newbie disabled folks have done Fins n' Things in Moab and plenty more tough trails in my rig.
I would not give up that space for anything.

On the truck & camper or Tiger thing....well it really comes down to comfort vs wheeling. If I was older and spending more consecutive nights in my rig I would go Tiger with a real bathroom/shower. But as 7 days is usually my max and I really like to wheel then the SMB is perfect.

Call the folks at SMB West and ask about the 2010 diesels on their site or building on a used van, you will be happy

 

[jackflash]

Thanks for the replay.

It sounds like we would be using it for about the same thing. The reason being, in wanting a Diesel, is much the same as yours. We too will be doing a lot of offroad driving, a lot of sitting and idling and yes the sound can't be beat. However we would also be towing motorcycles, fourwheelers, UTVs, boats and anything else we might want. Plus, we are very frugal people, meaning we use what we have. With that being said, the other main reason for wanting a Diesel is because we plan to drive it into the ground, resurrect it and drive it back into the ground.

Yes, it is just the two of us. No kids. However there is a really nice used white EB for sell that has just about everything we want. Maybe we should think about that one. I'll talk to the wife........

As far as the Truck with a camper or Tiger. The reason we chose the SMB is because our situation sounds much like yours. We would only be out 7 to 14 days max, as we both work, and we want to spend that time wheeling as much as possible.

I have sent SMB West an email and am waiting for a response. I might try to give them a call some time, but that might be a little difficult as we are currently in Singapore finishing up a project.

 

[dsw4x4]

Talk to Kraig Mahrley at
http://www.factory4x4vans.com/
He has access to a ton of 4x4 vans and can find what you are looking for.
Derek

 

[Explorer 1]

Since you asked.......

Help me out here, what would be better, a diesel truck with a camper or a SMB with the V10.

Or we could just go with a Tiger, but we really like the SMB. It seems it would be better for us, with the RB not being much larger than a Suburban. Any comments?

I own a 2007 Ford E-350 Diesel EB SMB.

The vehicle was designed and built with more of an off-road slant. When decisions were made as to which equipment and features were installed, whatever would work best in an remote location was chosen.

Out the door we were over $120,000 which from my perspective was high for basicly a Ford van with a lot of bolt on quality upgrades.

The van has 27,000 miles to date. While my experience should not be take as as representative of all SMB owners, I do believe it is a fair observation based on actual experience.

I have to agree with most owners that the curb appeal and attention one recieves is quite high and I can't deny that recieving such attention does feed one's ego, comments like "That's the most bad *** van I've ever seen" aren't unusual.

With 4wd and F&R lockers it is able to successfully navagate most class 1 and 2 roads, however my SMB weights in at over 10,000 lbs without passengers, water and a full fuel tank. This is a lot of weight and even with larger tires than most SMB ride on it doesn't take much to require the 4wd and the lockers be called on to assist.

I quickly had to learn that while this may be a capable EB van, it's really not a very capable off road vehicle. If you are looking for a van that can drive milder dirt roads it will work fine, however with it's weight and size it is limited. If you want to places where you driven another 4wd vehicle like a Jeep Cherokee or Toyota Tacoma while using 4wd you might be disappointed in the SMB 4wd ability. My experience has been that if I really needed 4wd to drive a trail with one of my smaller vehicles, the SMB will be struggling to drive the same trail in 4wd.

Another reoccurring issue with my SMB has been the quality of the fit, finish and installation of the interior and several of the high quality "add on" I ordered in my original build.

Again, if you off-road driving is for the most part milder Class 1 & 2 road the following may not be an issue.

The SMB 4WD suspension that they install in the conversion was so stiff (even when fully loaded) that washboard, rocky or bumpy road had to be taken at almost a snails pace. Even at this slow speed interior items would besome unscrewed or pull apart from the vibration and shaking. Most of the interior is assembled of particle board which is heavy and does not hold up well to moisture or vibration. The quality of the hardware and their installation is similar to what you would find in mass produced low end motor homes. This quality of materials along with lack of quality in the workman ship doesn't allow things to stay together long when subject to off road conditions.

My frustration with the SMB suspension finally led me to have it replaced by Deavers building a softer more articulating front and rear leaf and then replacing and relocation the shocks. Ride and articulation improved greatly but still the interior can't stand up to the rigors of off road travel.

I have had several "issues" and repairs on both interior and exterior items related what I would say were caused by a lack of understanding of the stresses associated with off highway travel.

I think the folks at SMB have designed a fine on highway product, but when it come to a vehicle that will actually stand up to off-road travel, SMB's fall far from the mark.

I'm sure there are many SMB owners pleased with the vehicles and I bless you and are happy for you, my intent is not to take away any of your happiness.

My point is to share my experience with what I view as the limitations and disappointments with a potential buyer so he doesn't only hear one side.

If I could do it all over again, I would go for a 4wd pickup with a quality 6" lift, F&R lockers and all the other off-road bells and whistles, then I would buy a pop-up camper that was constructed for off-road use and the pocket the difference of anywhere from $30,000 - $50,000.

Thanks,

Fred
Explorer 1

 

[18seeds]

SMB is a premium outfitter but I think there are better options for performance and price. If you are using partical board in construction than the price should reflect that. The SMB Pop Top looks awesome but if you are going to cut the roof why not open it all up instead of just a small spot.

What I would do is:

Buy a used or new van of the engine of your choice.
Get it Ujoint or Quadvan to do the 4x4 conversion
Bring it to Colorado Camper Van (CCV) and have the interior made to exactly what you want.

If you are really going to be doing a lot of off roading I would talk to CCV about using other material besides wood. I've seen samples at his shop that are stronger and lighter than wood. I have also heard there is a good van outfitter somewhere in Oregon. Maybe check them out.

From my understanding a Tiger is not really meant for off road. you will have to take it real slow.

The truck and camper combo is going to give you a lot of flexibility and it def has its advantages. I started in a 4x4 van, went to multiple truck campers on my Dodge CTD and now i'm back with a 4x4 van. I do think the truck camper combo makes the most sense for most people but i'm not satisified with the selection of truck campers that have updated their construction and design.

 

[jackflash]

Thanks for the detailed post Explorer 1, you described almost exactly what I was thinking. We started out thinking the Truck and Camper Idea was the best, but we started looking at the SMB. Being able to walk from the front to back without exiting the truck is a wonderful idea and may better suit our needs.

18seeds, thanks for the info too. What about the Quigley 4x4 conversion? Are they any good?

 

[1leglance]

I will completely disagree on the off road ability of the Sportsmobile West 4wd conversion.
And my 39,000 miles in the last year involve mostly newbie disabled folks driving the van with me instructing.

The critical difference I did was disconnect the front sway bar and leave it that way. It made a huge change in the front articulation and ability.
Also having the diesel in low range and letting it crawl along and making sure I was properly aired down for the conditions helped a ton.

Fin's n Things in Moab, plenty of Arizona rock crawling, washboards in Baja, and enough ground clearance that hardly anyone puts on a skid plate are all signs that the rigs can wheel.

I think is a huge mistake to even think in terms of building a big van that will rock crawl with built Jeeps & Toyotas. However I have gone on many of the trails that were tough on my previous rig (built FJ Cruiser) and they were easier in the Sportsmobile.

There are only 3 things that give me pause now, trail width when on narrow shelf roads, overhanging thick branches (I have the hi-top style rig), and tight turns. And I wheel an EB that just drags the rear end if needed

Disconnect the front sway bar and hit the trail, it will be interesting to see what you think.

 

[dsw4x4]

I cannot comment on how a SMB holds up interior or exterior I have never had the opportunity of owning one. However coming from a 4wheeling background (the first time I went I was two weeks old). I can say this I have had a ton of different rigs and I have broken every component there is to break while wheeling, and you could not pay me to put leafs under the front of a rig that heavy that sees a lot of abuse. I am not say everyone really wheels their rigs hard but if you do and you want ride quality and dependability coils are the way to go. I can not even think of a new vehicle today that you can by that has leafs up front that in its self should tell you something. Another example (on the other end of the spectrum) of this is go to any score or desert race and see what people use. The only ones using leafs are the classes that are required to other than that it is always 4 or 5 link set ups and these trucks are not light trucks they weigh a lot. You can get leafs in double military wrap which I highly recommend if you are going to wheel a heavy leaf spring vehicle because it is not if your going to break a spring but when you break that spring that you will wish you did so you can gimp out of that trail. One of the hardest vehicles to recover out of a trial is with a broken spring and an axle folded up under your rig sideways, it can be done but you better have the right tools some patient helpful buddies and a mind that thinks outside the box. Break a coil and you can probably just drive on home cockeyed but how often do coils really break? A well built 5 link system will soak up the wash boards. I really only use my van for wheeling and yes it has a modified quigly system I changed spring rates until I found the right ones in the front, at 80 dollars a set I could afford to change them until i was happy with ride and handling. As everyone knows a nice set of deavers are a lot more than that. As for taking a van wheeling I can fit my van anywhere a full size truck goes and I have found very few trails in colorado or wyoming or utah that I am restricted by the physical size or weight of my van unless I get off on a quad trail that a truck has no business being on. If you by a 4wd van and plan on wheeling it on trails plan on scratching it because you will a lot. But I also scratch the crap out of my smaller vehicles too. I you think you can wheel a van and keep it as a show truck at the same time find a new hobby because you will spend all of your time wheeling being highly disappointed and frustrated. The weight of these vans is a huge advantage in places like Moab where traction is at a premium. But can be inconvenient in bottomless marsh or tundra unless you are running a really a wide big tire. Which is what a van this size should be running if it's intended use is serious exploring. Big heavy trucks need big tires, running 31s or 32s is like building a heavy van on dana 30 axles. Any rig that is properly built needs to have all components built equally to match their ability. Using any rig to it's limits you will find the weakest link ALWAYS and when you beef that one up you will find the next weakest link and so on and so on. So the best you can hope for is to build everything equally in size and strength, do some real word maintenance (not just oil changes)and your rig will pay you back nicely.

 

[18seeds]

18seeds, thanks for the info too. What about the Quigley 4x4 conversion? Are they any good?

I'm on my second quigley and have NO complaints. Their customer service is amazing. For what I need it is perfect and you can't beat the price when you compare it to other conversions. dsw4x4 drives his pretty hard and it has done fine. That being said from my research the other conversions will use better components and in the end will cost more to convert.

From my understanding Quadvan uses the most Ford parts so servicing will be easier.

UJoint allows you to "put together" your conversion which can offer you more flexibility and you can incorporate used parts. It may also be easier for you to find a good price on a used 2wd van.

For the project I am doing now I didn't have the time to find a 2wd van and convert it. My camping season is just starting :wings:

 

[washington taco]

Look up Eric Badgers SMB experience. He had a ton of issues! With in the first page he states he will never by a FORD again. Its a great read! Him and his wife lived in the van for about two years!

 

[washington taco]

Look up Eric Badgers SMB experience. He had a ton of issues! With in the first page he states he will never by a FORD again. Its a great read! Him and his wife lived in the van for about two years!

www.badgertrek.com

 

[Explorer 1]

I will completely disagree on the off road ability of the Sportsmobile West 4wd conversion.

The critical difference I did was disconnect the front sway bar and leave it that way.

There are only 3 things that give me pause now, trail width when on narrow shelf roads, overhanging thick branches (I have the hi-top style rig), and tight turns. And I wheel an EB that just drags the rear end if needed

Disconnect the front sway bar and hit the trail, it will be interesting to see what you think.

I happy for you that your SMB meets or exceeds your expectations. Perhaps they did a better job putting yours together, or our expectations were different.

I am familiar with the dis-connects.

You mention Fins & Things in Moab, which I am familiar with. We both know that there are many parts of the park that the SMB couldn't tackle, it would simply be a matter of physics, it's just too big, too long and too heavy.

Please accept my apologies if I have treaded on anyones choice or belief in their SMB.

Respectfully,

Fred
Explorer 1

P.S. You might want to add to your list deep loose sand, fresh snow over 1' deep, any uphill reverse slope turn on slippery material.

 

[Blackeye]

Without stepping on anyone’s toes or comments, I would like to contribute from our Sportsmobile experience. Over the last two years or so, we’ve logged almost 75,000 miles on our ’08 Sportsmobile 4x4 (Extended Body “50” Floor plan).

Many of those miles involved off-tarmac travel, including Baja, the Alpine Loop in CO, Engineer and Cinnamon Passes, Titus Canyon and Saline Valley Road in Death Valley, most of the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route from CO north to the Canadian Border and extensive travels through the Desert southwest. I found that it could climb like crazy even without lockers, it performed really well in deep / soft sand and was solid when on / in snow.

Over the entire time, we had zero issues regarding build quality other than one of the screws came out of a shelf bracket and the awning bracket required some reinforcing at the center attachment point. I’m not going to say that I “rock starred” the rig, but I will say that we ran it pretty hard and had a ton of fun doing it. The best thing about the Sportsmobile is that you can drive to some incredible, out of the way and off the beaten track places and have all the comforts you could ask for when you get there.

I agree that it will not go certain places that other more nimble 4x4 rigs can go. But basically, you can go places on a motorcycle where you can’t take a nimble 4x4, you can go places on a mountain bike that you can’t take a motorcycle, you can go places on foot that you can’t take a mountain bike and so on. It really depends on what you want to do. All of our overland travel is made up of decisions and compromises.

I will say that we ran with E-Rated sidewall tires (Cooper Discoverer STT) and it looks like you did too Fred. We found that on corrugations and other rutted off-tarmac tracks, it is imperative that air pressure in the tires be lowered to 25 – 30 psi. That makes all the difference in both ride comfort, mechanical sympathy and traction.

I also must give credit to Graham Jackson and the Overland Training (www.overlandtraining.com) Comprehensive Certification Course curriculum to the safety and enjoyment of our travels. This course provided insight into the use of our rig in ways that we would never have learned through trial and error.

 

[Explorer 1]

Cooper STT and airing down

I will say that we ran with E-Rated sidewall tires (Cooper Discoverer STT) and it looks like you did too Fred. We found that on corrugations and other rutted off-tarmac tracks, it is imperative that air pressure in the tires be lowered to 25 – 30 psi. That makes all the difference in both ride comfort, mechanical sympathy and traction.

Your right, I do have the same tires, here is a picture of what happened on the White Rim trail when I aired down to 35 psi.

The contact patch on these tires, the same as a 35x13.50, isn't all that much bigger than what I run on my Cherokee but is asked to support over 3 times the weight.

Part of the problem with the weight of the SMB is finding tires that willl fit and support all that weight when your on loose rocks.

Again, happy for your good times in your SMB.

Fred
Explorer 1