OBS Ford brake upgrades

[Seabass]

Ok guys, I know there's more than a couple of these old trucks in this section. I'm as proud of mine as can be, and it's my nicest truck. In fact, if I needed to travel far it's the truck I'd be taking. That being said the brakes suck. They are particularly weak since I stepped up to 35" tires. I'm just curious to see what some of you have done in regard to brakes and brake upgrades. I'm open to aftermarket calipers, rotors, pads, I'd even consider a disc brake conversion for the rear axel (if there is such a thing). The old truck is really heavy. It holds 100 gallons of fuel, has a heavy winch and winch bumper out front, a heavy steel bumper out back, custom side steps, massive skid plating underneath to protect the fuel tanks, and loads of tools, camping, and recovery gear. It's got a lot to slow down. Then when I hook my camper to it I'm less than happy. I'm not over gross, I'm fairly confident. If I am it's not much. I think I've got something wrong.....booster or something like that. At any rate I'm ready to do a total brake upgrade. It stops, but im really bearing down on the pedal. I don't like it. Since I have two of these trucks I can see a difference. My work truck is basically identical, just with a gas engine and no topper. But, it has a crap load of tools and gear I use on the farm. I'm quite confident it weighs close to my powerstroke truck. But, it has smaller tires (285's). I do think the larger tires hurt the powerstroke truck. I don't remember questioning the brakes before the tires. Anyway, I can always count on you guys to deliver some sound advice. Any would be appreciated.

 

[AFBronco235]

Have you considered doing a hydroboost conversion, or do you already have that? Basically, you swap out the vacuum booster for a hydraulic booster ran off the power steering pump. You should also consider swapping your stock PS pump to the Saginaw pump. Should give you plenty of power. That being said, new calipers and even rear disk brakes are not a bad idea either.

 

[underdrive]

Have you considered doing a hydroboost conversion, or do you already have that? Basically, you swap out the vacuum booster for a hydraulic booster ran off the power steering pump. You should also consider swapping your stock PS pump to the Saginaw pump. Should give you plenty of power. That being said, new calipers and even rear disk brakes are not a bad idea either.

Actually I seem to recall info on the webs (so accuracy is generally questionable) that the factory Ford pumps were actually set to slightly higher pressures than most stock Saginaw pumps. If he gets an aftermarket pump all bets are off, obviously.

In any case, yes, hydroboost that girl. Generally speaking you need to swap both booster and pedal assembly together, as the hydro booster sits like 3/4" higher on the firewall than the vacuum one, and if you run a hydro with the vacuum pedal then the rod between them tends to bind. However, there's nothing stopping you from just drilling another set of hose in the hydroboost's mounting plate, if you locate them 3/4" above what's there from the factory this will drop your booster position on the firewall to where it lines up with the vacuum brake pedal perfectly. Then you take a die-grinder and you elongate the mounting holes of the vacuum master cylinder by 1/16" outwards each, for a total of 1/8" spread across the two. Use flange nuts when installing the modified master to the hydroboost. The bore in the vacuum master cylinder is deeper than the pushrod sticks out of the hydroboost, make yourself a spacer of appropriate dimensions to take up the difference.

The more standard approach is to swap the hydroboost unit, the master cylinder that goes with it, and the pedal under the dash, all as a package deal. These parts will be coming from a F-Superduty (old F450, has 10-lug 16" wheel) truck. The super-easy way is to grab all that from a F-Superduty that has the same body style and transmission as yours, then you just swap entire pedal assemblies. If that proves impossible to locate, then rob the parts of a F-Superduty with transmission like yours regardless of body style - in that case you'll be pulling the hydroboost brake pedal from the F-Superduty assembly and installing it into your assembly replacing your factory brake pedal.

We've done it both ways, I think the relocated hydrobooster with modified vacuum master worked a bit better. It's cheaper to try it anyways, and easier and faster cause no bleeding brakes is needed.

Oh, and if you have 1-3/4" rear wheel cylinders, replace them with the 1-13/16" ones for a DRW axle it's a direct bolt-on upgrade.

 

[Seabass]

Thanks guys! I wasn't sure what could be done..... But I knew somebody had some solid info. I tend to trust the expo crowd. I'm in the vicinity of a guy who parts out OBS trucks. I'm gonna give him a call. I'll let you know how I come out.

 

[pappawheely]

Awesome info Underdrive! I would love discs in the rear but I don't want to change wheels to the newer bolt pattern and need an emergency brake. Did the later model ambo's with 8x6.5 bolt pattern ever come with rear discs?

 

[underdrive]

Awesome info Underdrive! I would love discs in the rear but I don't want to change wheels to the newer bolt pattern and need an emergency brake. Did the later model ambo's with 8x6.5 bolt pattern ever come with rear discs?

I think circa 2000 all E450s come with rear disc and integrated (drum-in-hat) parking brakes. E350s can be either or.

Edit: just realized you got a SRW truck, yes there are disc-brake E350s with SRW axles. Dana 60s is what they run IIRC, as opposed to D70s for the E450s.

 

[Seabass]

So, I figured I'd adjust the the rear brakes. I really wanted to drive the ole' truck while I began to gather parts. I started on the driver side. I put the adjusting tool in the slot and hit the adjuster wheel. I twisted it in the proper direction, and no click, click, click. Crap! So I went to my local NAPA and purchased a set of shoes and all the hardware to put everything in new. It's not exactly an upgrade, but at 145,000 miles I figured it was probably due. So I pulled the driver side wheel when I got in and removed the drum. This is what I found... A shoe retainer spring had come loose and had apparently managed to release the the cable that held the adjuster lock. So, the brake was so out of adjustment that it wasn't doing crap. After a little messing around I got it back together. but, the brakes were in great shape. Apparently right before I bought the truck the previous owner had all new brakes and drums put on the truck. SCORE! So then I got to looking..... About a year ago this happened.... the trans. tail broke off and I had to have the truck hauled to a tranny shop. Apparently they put a chain over the rear axel and it mashed the brake line going to the passenger side... So I would guess the passenger side wasn't working at all! I got some new line and did a repair... I assumed I could bleed the passenger side and call it done. Nope! I just happened to shine a light into the adjustment slot on the backing plate for the passenger side. Not sure why, just tryin to verify new parts there as well I guess. It was wet. NOOOOOO! This job wouldn't freaking end! So after I thought I was done- I got to pull the passenger side wheel and drum and this is what I found.... DANG! Axel seal is leakin' ! So back to NAPA I went. One new seal, and two new bearings and races, and I was back together. What a day. I was really glad I had bought the new shoes. I ended up putting them on, instead of trying to clean the oil soaked ones. Finally I got to take her out for a test drive....WOW! Who would have thought that havin' almost no rear brakes would have caused a truck to stop so poorly! Ha! She stops pretty dang good now. I do need to replace the brake master cylinder. While my dad was bearing down on the pedal during the bleeding process, he noticed that the pedal is slowly creeping towards the floor board when it shouldn't be. So I got a new one coming in the morning. $42.00 and a life time warranty. Not bad. I'm not sure it will make it stop any better... But it can't hurt. So I'm not too displeased with the brakes now. It's a lot better than before. I'd still like to do a hydro boost conversion, but no stress. Thank you guys so very much for taking time to offer suggestions on how to help. I know I can always count on the fine people of The Expedition Portal!

 

[underdrive]

I got some new line and did a repair...View attachment 303591

Hate to break it to ya man, but you need to repair your repair. I see a compression union in that picture, this is a major no-no when working with brake lines, and in many states that have annual vehicle safety inspection programs those unions are grounds for failing. Yes I realize that many people run these on their vehicles for years and years without any issues, and no I don't really give a hoot - they've all just been lucky is all. A typical flare connection (be it the SAE double-flare or a metric bubble) cannot physically let go all of sudden, it can leak if not properly executed but the threads will hold the line in place. In comparison a compression union only relies on friction between the line and the ferrule to keep the works together, if for whatever reason that gets compromised the line can blow right out of the fitting. Do yourself and others on the road a favor, and replace the line you have now with something that doesn't use a compression fitting. If you don't know how to flare brake lines, or you don't feel comfortable doing so, just buy a pre-flared piece that is longer than what you need and get creative with the bends to take up the extra length - as long as both ends are tight where they need to be and nothing rubs on anything else you'll be good, even if it looks a bit odd to some...

 

[Seabass]

underdrive- good job picking that out. It Is a compression union. I just didn't have a piece long enough to reach. It's getting a new line in day or two. I'm planning on replacing it when the master cylinder goes on. I had that laying around the shop from some air line repairs on a semi. I have had them come apart before. But, I'm not goin too far in the truck and I ain't hauling anything with it. I live in a rural area. Most of my driving on a day to day basis is under 40 mph. What I didn't show was the other compression fitting that was in the same line! I'm pretty sure a shop in the next town did that repair. A full blown auto repair shop! Anyway, I'm still happy to have the factory brakes working at least as good as they should.

 

[underdrive]

As long as you're aware of the potential dangers, and you've taken steps to remedy the situation in the near future, all is good! Btw don't be too surprised that it was a pro shop that used a fitting like that before you - it's faster than flaring the ends and doing it right, and pften the folks working the repair bays are under constant pressure from the boss man to get the vehicles in and out as fast as possible. Which naturally leads to cutting corners, but the thought process is that it's an older vehicle so it's likely to get traded in or sold before the lousy repair becomes a problem that could mean warranty work. It's a messed up way of doing things, but it's not as uncommon as we'd like it to be...

 

[Korben]

Two popular brake upgrades for these trucks, hydroboost and rear discs. Underdrive did a good job with hydroboost. For discs a common swap that I haven't done but read about and can only recite from memory is to use van rotors and chevy calipers. Vans stayed 8x6.5 for longer and were available with disc rear brakes on the 10.25/10.5. Then using front calipers from a 80s I think chevy and a aftermarket or self made bracket. I haven't look to closely at the swap I'm good with hydroboost and drums, and it removes the parking brake. I'd imagine there's a large variety of calipers with parking brakes that could be used though, the hard part is the rotors that will work with the full float axle and 8x6.5 pattern.

 

[pappawheely]

Two popular brake upgrades for these trucks, hydroboost and rear discs. Underdrive did a good job with hydroboost. For discs a common swap that I haven't done but read about and can only recite from memory is to use van rotors and chevy calipers. Vans stayed 8x6.5 for longer and were available with disc rear brakes on the 10.25/10.5. Then using front calipers from a 80s I think chevy and a aftermarket or self made bracket. I haven't look to closely at the swap I'm good with hydroboost and drums, and it removes the parking brake. I'd imagine there's a large variety of calipers with parking brakes that could be used though, the hard part is the rotors that will work with the full float axle and 8x6.5 pattern.

I did rear discs on a 14 bolt. The calipers available with a built-in e-brake are limited. Eldorado calipers are popular but the e-brake doesn't hold well. The modern design is a shoe inside the rotor. I'm not sure if that's available in a full floater and 8x6.5 bolt pattern. If it is, please someone tell us where to get it.

 

[Korben]

It is, off a 99-something E350, a few people have done this conversion basically transferring the entire van braking system with a few tweaks onto a 10.25. It's not bolt on, you have to cut the flange that the backing plate mounts to off of the 10.25 and replace it with one that will work with the van parts. Then a couple modifications to the drum parking brake. I haven't gotten to deep into research yet as it's not yet a priority for me but here's a couple pages I had saved that should get you started on researching the details. http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2760&showall=1 http://www.fordmann.com/F350.rear_disc_brakes.htm
.
FWIW I think drums are fine with hydroboost, I'd suggest doing that first and seeing what you got. To my mind discs are about better heat dissipation not so much stronger stopping power. This tends not to be a problem for rears until you're pushing the limits. So far I'm choosing to keep the stock drums, less hassle, longer lasting, better parking brake even compared to the small hat design, etc.

 

[pappawheely]

I hate drums. I was traumatized by a '68 firebird with 4 wheel drums. You never knew where you would end up when you got on the brakes.

 

[amgvr4]

The other big reason to switch to disks is they are far better in the wet and mud. I had my drums loose a bunch of grip on the trail this weekend after a long water crossing and a really slow decent. I never got going fast enough on the trail to clean them off and restore their grip. It wasn't until we were back on the FS roads that they were back to normal.