older pop up tc on 1st gen tacoma?

[potterjon]

Does anyone on here have this combination or one similar like a Jayco or Starcraft on a first gen Tacoma?

I am a noob and have been lurking and reading for about 6 months. I have a 1998 4 cyl, 4wd ext cab Tacoma 5 spd . The truck with me sitting in it weighs 3600 lbs and the payload is 5100 lbs, leaving a 1500 lb difference. I have been searching wide and far for something under 1100 lbs if possible and simply can't afford a fwc or other aluminum framed camper. I realize that they say 500 lbs of "stuff" is the average. That leaves only a few campers out there that suit my needs. The Sunlite Skyhawk, Jayco Sportster 7, Skamper 060s, or Palomino 600, from what I can tell. These are each companies smallest and lightest models. Oh yeah, I forgot about the Shadow Cruisers. I believe some of them measure 37" between the wheel wells and that would work. I don't really want to raise the camper up to get it to fit my truck for some of the obvious reasons, but mostly because of the weight. If I could stay under my gwvr and do that I probably would consider it.

Anyhoo, this evening I called about one that was about a 13 hr trip from me. I have no problem driving a good distance to get one if it suits my needs, but I am getting mixed reviews about this kind of set up. One guy says it was great when he did it with a 1996 4wd 5 spd taco and another says it was much less then desirable in his 2002 6 cyl tacoma. Said he got about 9 mpg with it on.

I am sure this set up is not "ideal" by anyones standards, and I am sure it will be cumbersome and not get great gas mileage, but I love my taco and dont plan on upgrading at all.

I am not planning on doing any serious four wheeling or anything. I just want to get to the beach (about 4 hrs away) and go fishing, and an occasional trip to the woods with my wife and dogs and some kayaks.

I have alot of other questions, of course, as I am looking into air lifts vs leaf springs , etc. But before I pull the trigger on anything I would at least like to hear other peoples experience with a first generation tacoma and a pop up truck camper. This is my daily driver and I haul alot of stuff in it all the time. So I really need to be able to take it on and off the truck. I have no doubt that my truck can carry more than the gwvr says it can, but I want to keep it legal too.

 

[mtnbike28]

I know that when I put my Flippac on the handling changed... I had to add airbags to be happy. Mileage and throttle response suffered some, but the braking really bugs me. I installed better rotors and pads before the FP, I plan to look into the Tundra brake upgrade when it's time to replace the rotor (Might be awhile, stock one lasted 180k or so)

That all said, I love the FP and the family enjoys the get in and go of it!

 

[subterran]

I'd be the last to tell you it can't be done. I have a 98 Taco extcab 4x4 V6 with a wooden popup TC of about 800 lb. I think the performance for me is pretty good. Gas milage is still very good also. I have another small camper I built out of a Haulmark enclosed trailer also. Now as a comparison, with the trailer I am still well within GVW, but pulling the trailer greatly reduces performance and gas mileage.

My wife has the same truck as mine, but it's a 4 cylinder so I also have much experience with that package. Lots of folks have done what you want to do. Some examples of folks on here that have simular setups are Rangerdogg (shadowcruiser on a ranger) and Tanglefoot (scamper on a gen 1 4runner). You might ask them directly, but I think the general concensus would be "go for it". Try to stay as light as possible. You also have some low gearing for true mountain travel with your 4x4. Your truck will take a performance hit, so I might suggest that you not leave it on all the time and only put it on when you want to use it.

In short, and IMHO, it wouldn't be the ideal setup, power-wise, but it will work. You won't use 5th gear much unless it's really flat or downhill. But you'll have fun and enjoy yourself.

 

[tanglefoot]

As others mentioned, it depends on your expectations of the vehicle, but if you don't mind taking it slow, it might work out nicely for you.

I have a plywood pop-up (Four Seasons brand, 1988) on an earlier Toyota 4wd with the 8-valve 2.4 (quite a bit less power output than your 16v 2.7). I really like it. I'm a patient, gentle driver and just go at my own pace. It averages 20 mpg or better with the camper on. I use a cheap pair of half-leaf helpers to help support the load. My GVWR is 4800 lbs, so I'm sure I (and many others) routinely go over the rating, but it's definitely best if you can stay under it.

I think driving style affects mpg the most. Wind resistance really ramps up at speeds higher than about 60 mph, so those who keep the throttle mashed and push 80 mph through the wind probably will experience dismal fuel economy. Those who settle in at 55-60 mph and "drive with load" see much better averages.

Driving with Load (DWL): http://greenlightshv.wordpress.com/2012/02/19/driving-technique-driving-with-load-dwl/

With the camper on, the cornering ability is definitely affected, but the independent front suspension probably deals with this better. I have pretty soft front leaf packs and questionable sway bar links.

If you like to go at your own pace, I'll echo the others and say "go for it!" The camper sure makes for an easy, comfy setup when you stop for the night.

 

[potterjon]

Thanks for all the responses!
Your answers help a lot!
Mtnbike28, I am surprised you felt that way with a flippac. Didn't realize they were so heavy.
Subterran, I read your thread on the woody and that thing is cool.
Tanglefoot, I have no problem at all driving 6o or so. Great insight about mpg. The seller is the one that kind of was making me second guess it. He sounded so discouraged with the set up, he sounded like he didn't even want to sell it to me. It has some damage to the roof that has been repaired that I am a little concerned about.
I feel like I have read every thread on the internet and my eyes are about to pop outta my head. I was actually going to some auto shop stores yesterday trying to look at some airlift systems when I was realizing that my leaf springs on the passenger side seem to be pretty much shot. They don't have any arch at all and are frowning a little bit. The driver side still actually has a little lift. I don't know if that's the so called taco lean or not. I don't think it is, because I don't see any other tacomas leaning like that and I tend to stare at them a lot more lately. It is pretty hard to notice though unless you really take a long look at the bed from the back. The truck has always had a sag in the right rear but it seems more noticeable lately and it has been bugging the hell out of me when I look in the rear view mirror.
As I said before, I am going to take this camper on and off a lot, so I thought air bags were the appropriate solution, but now I am thinking new leaf springs first? So then I am thinking new leaf springs, air bags, tie downs and e rated tires is the end goal? That may be too much of a commitment this year. My budget just exploded! First I was thinking just helper springs but then I don't know if that would help if one side is bad. Would air bags still be appropriate with this leaf spring situation?
Do I really need "e" rated tires in addition to that? Do I need 4 or can I just get away with two in the back?
I am not in a hurry to buy a camper, but before you know it, it's going to be winter again and it seems these smaller campers are much harder to come by here in the Carolinas. Especially in my budget. There are plenty of them that will fit a full size truck but not the mini trucks like mine.

 

[subterran]

Take a lesson from me and skip the airbags completely. Some new heavy-duty load weight increasing rear springs will be all you need back there. It will ruin your non-camper ride, but it solves your problem. I have not had any trouble at all with stock C rated tires. Just stick with a good brand name like BFG or Goodyear with multi plies in the sidewall and you're good. The only thing you need to be sure of in the end is that you can get to your spare tire with the camper on. Don't just check it, do the drill. I have an extra-long extension that reaches the spare-tire winch with the tailgate down. Very important, grasshopper!

Since it is so cheap to do, you might just do as Tanglefoot did with his, and just add-a-leaf. If it does not work out, you're only out maybe $100, and it's reversible.

If you get the springs right, you won't need airbags.

My tiedown solution in my thread was about as low-cost as possible, so read up on that. Let me know if you have any questions about how I did anything, I'm glad to help out.

 

[tanglefoot]

That's good advice to make sure you can still get the spare tire down.

I've always used load range C tires as well, both 2 and 3-ply sidewalls, off-brands, with no problems. I run the air pressure pretty high to reduce rolling resistance and keep the tires running cooler. ~45 psi in back, ~40 psi in front. Don't exceed the tire's max psi, of course.

I think it's fine to keep the original springs and just add something as well. The stock springs aren't supposed to have much arch--they're pretty flat to begin with. Many trucks aren't completely level side-to-side. Check to make sure you don't have any broken leafs. If not, you're probably fine. The campers that have the kitchen on the left tend to be heavier on the drivers' side--it might balance right out!

The suitability of a truck platform is pretty subjective--the feedback varies greatly depending on who you ask. Some say you need a 1-ton to haul a motorcycle. In my family, we use 4-cylinder platforms for everything...including my parents' 22-foot RV (which averages 17-19 mpg).

I have a combination of add-a-leaves and the half-leaf helpers in the original rear spring packs. The add-a-leaf is mainly to match the height of the taller front springs I put on though. The helpers I'm using are like these...inexpensive, and bolt right on: http://www.amazon.com/Superior-11-1020-Helper-Spring-Capacity/dp/B00029K022 Auto parts stores usually have them on the shelf.

 

[potterjon]

Man, this is all good advice! I suppose I will start with an add a leaf of some sort and then if I feel the need I can add to that. That was my original thought but the air bags seemed ideal. I suppose I just won't really know until I put one on my truck. That's the hard part about driving a long distance to look at, or buy one.
Tanglefoot, how does your truck ride without the camper on it? I assume I could just take the add a leaf off when I take the camper off if I really need to, but that kind of takes away from the spontaneity of it all.
I just got done reading rangerdogs thread and most of his posts about searching for a small camper and now I like the shadow cruiser better, lol.
Subterran, did you just use the same connectors for the happijack bumper set up and drill them into the side of your bed? If I am understanding you correctly? Any signs of wear in that spot? Have you changed it at all since then? The torklift seems like overkill to me for such a small camper and the happijack system seems like route I will probably take. Maybe I can just get one home with some heavy duty ratchet straps to the eye bolts in the truck bed if it's not too far of a distance to travel?

 

[xkid]

Add a leaf can be a harsher ride Imo. A full size leaf would be better or whole new leaf pack. I have a all on my xterra, so I feel it.

 

[subterran]

Yes, anything you do to beef up your springs will result in a harsher ride with no load. Short of a real spring artisan making you a spendy set of custom springs, you might just have to get used to a rougher ride. When the camper is on, the truck will ride wonderfully. Yes, my happijack front mounts are the same as the rear bumper mounts. That is how happijack intended it to be. I was skeptical at first, but they actually work pretty well, with no rubbing or wear at all. There are not many choices out there for Tacos, as you will discover by searching. We were never supposed to carry a TC in a Tacoma. Lol!

You'll be fine getting it home with ratchet straps. Just go slow and steady. That's how most of us got our first camper home.

 

[tanglefoot]

I haven't had the camper off since I got it, but it definitely rides softer with the camper on than it ever did without it. It's not that big a deal though. I do plan on getting the camper off sometime in the near future, and I'll probably leave the helpers on, just for convenience.

A helper leaf can be removed pretty easily, since it goes outside of the spring pack. An add-a-leaf goes inside the pack, so you probably won't want to be removing and replacing it each time.

Some campers, like the newer Phoenix campers, use large ratchet straps (inside the truck bed, so they're out of the sun) to permanently mount the camper, so it's a mounting option you can explore for actual use. Subterran--add one more who used ratchet straps (little ones) to bring the camper home.

 

[rangerdogg]

Hi potterjohn, thanks I'm glad you like shadow cruiser. Here is what I can tell you the ranger was a4.0 and handled the camper great. Never had issue with power and breaking. The shadow cruiser is a well built camper and I have no regreats. The ranger had air shock to help with my enclosed trailer I use for work which helps with bouncy of trailer and did great with camper. One thing I will say take your time looking for a camper and look in cabinets and under all drawers and floor and walls for leaks. Mine has a one piece roof and under bed storage which is awesome , all appliances and goods and propane just over 960 lb. I have no regret buying it .Plan on enjoying and making it mine over the years.I sold ranger and now have a 01 tundra for more space a little one on the way.. IF NOT I NEVER WOULD HAVE SOLD IT. But I'm enjoying more room. If you have questions let me know. I also took it to where it was originally bought and the owner said they sold a **** load back in the day and very well built camper back in day. .

 

[potterjon]

Again, thx for all the input everyone. I guess at this point I am leaning towards something like this. I can't imagine that making it ride too rough. I still really like the idea of air bags, it just sounds like a lot of people have had issues with them moving around on the toyotas for some reason. I may check around and see if I can find them used on CL.

http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=9441

I guess my biggest concern is wood rot. Not necessarily the options inside the camper. I don't really want another project in my life. I feel like my life is a project and this is supposed to take me away from that. lol. But hey, I don't mind doing a little work to get what I need. Am I right in thinking just the scamper and the shadow cruiser have the under the bed storage I keep seeing that everyone likes so much? Man, I really like the weight of that shadow cruiser....

 

[tanglefoot]

Those are add-a-leaves, so they go inside the pack. It's a bit of work to put them in (suspend truck, suspend axle, remove u-bolts, disassemble spring pack, etc) and they add a fair bit of lift. You might consider a helper-type instead for easier installation and more load support instead of lift. The add-a-leaves could also work for you but you may not want that much actual lift. They'll probably make the truck sit pretty high in the back, especially with the camper off.

Many campers have under-bed storage, including Sun Lite, Northstar, Outfitter, Hallmark (I believe), and most wood-construction campers. I would say more have it than not.

 

[potterjon]

I do usually carry a leer top on my truck and I think it weighs somewhere around 150-200 lbs. And I usually have a load in the truck of something. I am always hauling something it seems. So I was thinking an add a leaf was a better option but I understand what you are saying. They are a more permanent installation and not easily taken on or off. The reviews I read on some of the helper springs were pretty bad. Sort of sounded like a wasted effort for a lot of people. This is one of those decisions where there are simply too many choices. I will take some pics of my leaf springs tomorrow and post them here and see what you guys think. I have to admit after reading some other peoples posts about their journey to find a camper for their truck, it seems like a very tedious process so I don't feel so exclusive anymore. Thanks again for all the info.