Question: Convert 1HZ 80 Series to 1HD-FT/FTE versus upgrade to 100 Series?

[p1michaud]

To the ExPo LandCruiser enthusiasts, a question I have for you! What option would you choose if you had the option between the following:

1. Engine conversion on a 1997 1HZ 80 Series with 218000 Km on the vehicle. Engines being considered are the Toyota 1HD-FT (factory offering in the 80 Series) or 1HD-FTE (factory offering in the 100 Series) more on this below.
2. Upgrade to HDJ100R (100 Series Turbo Diesel)?

Additional information:

80 Series
Full history of the HZJ80R DX model 80 Series is known, meticulous and up to date maintenance, all the fruit (bumpers, long range fuel tanks, water tank, winch, etc&#8230 and ready for an expedition. It's a manual and part time 4WD as well for those who may not be aware.

Toyota 1HD-FT 4.2L factory turbo diesel engine with 24 valves that was a factory offering in the 80 Series. Power: 125 Kw (168 Hp) Torque: 380 N-m (280 ft-lb). Claimed figures after 3” exhaust, intercooler and dynotune: Power: 163 Kw (219 Hp) Torque: 470 N-m (347 ft-lb).

Toyota 1HD-FTE 4.2L factory turbo diesel engine with 24 valves, introduction of more electronics (i.e. more advance version of 1HD-FT above) and intercooled on the 100 Series engines. This engine was a factory offering in the 100 Series. Power: 151 Kw (202 Hp) Torque: 430 N-m (317 ft-lb). Claimed figures after 3” exhaust, performance chip and dynotune: Power: 176 Kw (236 Hp) Torque: 528 N-m ( 389 ft-lb).

Pros:
Known vehicle history
Solid axles front and rear
Full floating axles (bush repair friendly, i.e. remove broken axle to get to next destination).

Cons:
15 year old vehicle
Funds for engine conversion would not be recoverable on sale of vehicle.

100 Series
The 100 Series will most likely not be modified but may have some aftermarket accessories fitted at time of purchase. May or may not have full history of the vehicle.

Pros
More confortable than the 80 and would lead to less driver fatigue on longer drives.
Much better power and torque
Better fuel economy.
Better resale value
Updated safety features (dual air bag, anti lock brakes, full time 4wd)

Cons
Semi floating rear axle (less bush repair friendly).
IFS lower A-arm weakness (can be rectified via a proper lift and strengthening kit).
Weak front diff (can be rectified)
Larger than the 80 Series

I've been thinking about both options for some time now since we have been towing a camper trailer on our adventures. It comes down to the 1HZ not having enough power and torque to safely tow the trailer (speed limit is about 90 Km/h and don't even think about passing).

I ‘ve re-read this article: Top 10 Used Overland Vehicles and it got me thinking about the 100 series. I'd been doing quite a bit of research on engine conversions. The two possibilities I'm willing to consider are listed above (i.e. 1HD-FT and 1HD-FTE)

My only hesitation is that from my test drives (limited to on road unfortunately) I get the feeling that the 100 Series lacks the robustness of the 80 Series. I'd like to get a bit of input from those who have a 100 Series and use them off road. Is this just my perception that the 100 Series is not as robust?

I suppose that a bit of a tease is warranted here as well. We did test drive a 70 Series LandCruiser, a GXL wagon (VDJ76R) with the nice new V8 turbo diesel and all the off road goodies but decided against it in favor of the 80 and 100 Series but that's a whole other story… :costumed-smiley-007

Here's a photo of the cruiser we took for a spin:

So what say you?

 

[stevek]

Thats a tough call for sure. Have you considered a turbo for the HZ? That might add enough power for you and would be the cheapest route to go by far!

 

[SWITAWI]

Here's a photo of the cruiser we took for a spin:

So what say you?

I think I speak for all of us here in the States when I say :drool:

But seriously I'd say your choice of platform depends on where, how, and how hard you intend to use the vehicle. One of my best friends just had his 80-Series totaled by an inattentive driver while it was sitting parked on the street in front of his house, and now he's starting to look at a 100-Series for a replacement. His 80 definitely had a tank-like quality to it, but there's no reason for anyone to avoid the newer series because the 80s just aren't getting any younger or less abused. Couple that with a lesser-stressed engine and I'd say the 100-Series is very viable if you don't need that extra capability that two live axles gives you and/or towing is involved. Of course you may be engaging in some serious remote-area travel where the 'simpler' live axle up front might be a benefit when field repairs are needed. Every vehicle will generate its own list of pros and cons. Just figure out which vehicle makes the fewest compromises to get you where you want to go.

 

[Christian P.]

Here's an idea....buy a 100 and keep the 80s available to Expo members only who are visiting Australia...

 

[TangoBlue]

Here's an idea....buy a 100 and keep the 80s available to Expo members only who are visiting Australia...

... at discounted rates. Good idea Christian!

 

[p1michaud]

Thats a tough call for sure. Have you considered a turbo for the HZ? That might add enough power for you and would be the cheapest route to go by far!

Good suggestion however here's the catch. To properly turbo a 1HZ to ensure engine longevity there are many things you need to consider as follows:

• Check engine compression
• Ensure that injectors are in top condition and fuel pump is in good working order (rebuild for both is about $2200)
• Turbo kit ($3500 supply only, $4200 installed)
• Intercooler ($1500 to $3500), if you want to keep your Exhaust Gas Temperatures low this is a must however many will argue this point and there are lots of turbo 1HZ punting around Oz without a turbo.
• Exhaust Gas Temperature and Boost Gauge ($450)
• Check and replace big end bearings ($750)
• Dyno tune ($400) a must for these engines otherwise you will damage this motor it's just a matter of when
• 3" exhaust to get most out of turbo system due to restrictions on OEM exhaust ($1200)
• You may or may not be up for a Heavy Duty clutch depending on the condition of your existing one and if you are towing a trailer ($800 to $1000).
• With all this new found power, you will be considering a brake upgrade ($800 to $1200).

So when you add this all up, you are looking at $9000 to $10000 to get a properly set up and reliable system that won't leave you stranded mid Australia somewhere.

 

[p1michaud]

I think I speak for all of us here in the States when I say :drool:

The 70 series has some pros and cons... and is no different than to every vehicle out there.

But seriously I'd say your choice of platform depends on where, how, and how hard you intend to use the vehicle. One of my best friends just had his 80-Series totaled by an inattentive driver while it was sitting parked on the street in front of his house, and now he's starting to look at a 100-Series for a replacement. His 80 definitely had a tank-like quality to it, but there's no reason for anyone to avoid the newer series because the 80s just aren't getting any younger or less abused. Couple that with a lesser-stressed engine and I'd say the 100-Series is very viable if you don't need that extra capability that two live axles gives you and/or towing is involved. Of course you may be engaging in some serious remote-area travel where the 'simpler' live axle up front might be a benefit when field repairs are needed. Every vehicle will generate its own list of pros and cons. Just figure out which vehicle makes the fewest compromises to get you where you want to go.

I do tend to go out and play on some harder tracks and trips on occasion. Unfortunately I've managed to push the front axle of the 80 past it's limit read here: 80 Series - Broken front diff housing. I did get home from this trip. I believe that's one benefit of the 80 due to the solid axles and slightly smaller size compared to the 100.

Otherwise well put regarding the 100 Series regarding age and engines.

Here's an idea....buy a 100 and keep the 80s available to Expo members only who are visiting Australia...

Christian,
You know, I've been thinking about suggesting an ExPo vehicle share type scheme given that many of our members are world travellers now. Would be worth starting a separate discussion on this...

Cheers,
P

 

[richxd87]

I suppose that a bit of a tease is warranted here as well. We did test drive a 70 Series LandCruiser, a GXL wagon (VDJ76R) with the nice new V8 turbo diesel and all the off road goodies but decided against it in favor of the 80 and 100 Series but that's a whole other story…

So what's the story against the 70 Series!?!? :coffeedrink:

 

[redthies]

Buy a 105 series? Best of both.....

My thoughts exactly, assuming a 1HD-FTE is available. Otherwise, i am assuming cost is the factor when going to a 76. If not, then go 76 or go unsatisfied...

 

[JohnnyS]

I'm wondering as well....

So what's the story against the 70 Series!?!? :coffeedrink:

 

[p1michaud]

Buy a 105 series? Best of both.....

Unfortunately not that easy. The 105 only came with two engines from Mr. Toyota. The 1HZ and 1FZ-FE. They did not provide the nice 1HD-FTE.

My thoughts exactly, assuming a 1HD-FTE is available. Otherwise, i am assuming cost is the factor when going to a 76. If not, then go 76 or go unsatisfied...

I did not want to "contaminate" this thread with a discussion regarding the 76 Series but since you ask....
The most significant barrier to going the 70 series is purely one of cost. A new 2012 VDJ76R in GXL trim (alloy wheels, cloth trim, flares, central locking for doors and some chrome bits) = $71 000 AUD. Did I mention a 3 month wait? Then add $28 000 AUD for the full ARB fit out (as pictured above) and you are looking at $99 000 AUD for a vehicle. Can't justify it without winning the lottery...

There were a few other things that sealed the deal after the test drive. The interior of the 70 series did receive minor updated in 2009 via the inclusion of air bags and side impact beams in the doors. Otherwise the general look and feel of the vehicle has not changed much over the years. In fact my wife's first comment was: “is this really 15 years newer than ours?”. The general road manners, steering and road feel while driving down the road was no different than our current 80 Series LandCruiser with similar equipment. There was a noticeable difference in power, that would be enough to make you want to buy one of these if money was no object. Admittedly we did not take the cruiser off road, unfortunately they don't let you loose on a 4WD track with a $100K vehicle. It would have been great to test if off road because that's where this vehicle comes into its own. Robust drive train, powerful engine and diff locks. There would not be too many places a 76 cruiser would not get to.

That's why the 70 series has been removed from the options list...

 

[redthies]

Well, that is what I expected. Prices are crazy for utes etc in Oz. The 6/49 is up to 16 million on saturday... Maybe I'll get you to buy a couple of ARB prepped 76s and you can "test" them for me prior to a trip up the cape I have been thinking about!

But, reality being what it is, back to the 80 v 100 world. I don't know how long you are staying in Oz, but whichever rig you have, will come back to Canada with you. (I'm not giving you the chance to say no to that). Thus, any money put into a swap in the 80 will be moot, as you will drive it forever. I say keep your 80 and do the FTE!

 

[p1michaud]

Well, that is what I expected. Prices are crazy for utes etc in Oz. The 6/49 is up to 16 million on saturday... Maybe I'll get you to buy a couple of ARB prepped 76s and you can "test" them for me prior to a trip up the cape I have been thinking about!

But, reality being what it is, back to the 80 v 100 world. I don't know how long you are staying in Oz, but whichever rig you have, will come back to Canada with you. (I'm not giving you the chance to say no to that). Thus, any money put into a swap in the 80 will be moot, as you will drive it forever. I say keep your 80 and do the FTE!

Ha, if you luck out with the 6/49 and want to set up a 76 for testing prior to a Cape York trip, I'll volunteer my time to organise it for you. The catch you need a third one, for me as we are going to Cape York in June/July of this year.

Interesting point about returning to Canada. Don't forget the 15 year rule thus the vehicle needs to be made prior to January 1997 at the moment. That would narrow my choice to the engine swap on the 80...

Cheers,
P

 

[redthies]

I haven't forgotten about the 15 year rule... I say go with the multivalve in your existing 80. You know inside and out, and as I said, if you are going to keep it and use it for years to come, the cost of the swap will be equalled by the eventual depreciation of a 100. You will also likely need to spend quite a bit at ARB getting a hundy to the same place your 80 is. You MIGHT find a hundy with some of the kit you want installed already, but not all, so there will be added expense there as well.

As for June and July, if things work out with the lotto corp, I'll let you know. Seriously!

 

[esh]

edit: forget it, sounds like you're trying to talk yourself into a new motor.. so I say go for it!

FT or FTE would be great motors, a 1VD-FTE would be a rocket ship (~40% more horsepower, and nearly 100% more torques over a new 1HD-FTE)