Roof Top Tent Quality???

[Andrew Walcker]

I know that this will probably be addressed in great detail in the upcoming Overland Journal under the roof top tent shoot-out (can hardly wait) but it sure seems like there are a lot of very recent roof top tent offerings by other companies. The old stand by's of Eezi-Awn, Hannibal, Howling Moon, and Overland seem to be facing some steep competition in the pricing department. I have owned an Eezi-Awn 1800 for the last 6 months and have slept in it at least 15 times without a single complaint. I was starting to think to myself that maybe I should have waited a bit since it appears the market may "bear" many additional choices, which if I remember my Econ classes should drive prices down. I saw this post over on Adventure Trailers newest site and was once again reminded of the old adage, "You get what you pay for".

http://www.atreport.com/pr1.html

It should be interesting to see how the new tents that are manufactured in China wear. As of right now I feel much better about my tent "investment" (yes, that is how I convinced my wife) Anyone have any thoughts on this subject?

 

[articulate]

I think the market for RTTs is so small that the cheap units that try to undercut/infiltrate the marketplace on selling price will eventually fall away - Darwinian faith I have. They just aren't commodity items like dishes, linens, furniture, etc, and I think that changes the nature of how roof tents get sold and allocated. Those who have the money to buy, time to use, and desire for the outdoors also put a discriminating value on the equipment they buy. Cheap RTTs won't last in the market because they won't last outdoors; look 2-3 years down the road, after the first production run of some low-end units are sold off and you might not ever see them again. I speculate, sure, but I've seen similar things happen in my own day-job field.

Additionally, I had the opportunity to help Marzonie put a few of those tents through the ringer for his article. Each tent is very different when you look at the details: the hinges, ladders, substrates/floors, tent material, mounting methods, etc etc etc. I can see how one can be very dissappointed in a tent they purchased for $800 that copies a Hannibal, Eezi-Awn, etc.

Beware of the price games.
:beer:

 

[Andrew Walcker]

Very well articulated (pun intended) I agree with you as you bring up some very valid points. I think that the market for the RTT is in its infancny in the US with a lot of demand to come on line as additional outdoors types are introduced to the RTT concept.

I guess were I am going with this is that RTTs have been big in Europe and Australia for quiet some time, yet there appears to be only three or four main manufacturers in the world. Coincidence or has the market already weeded out the $800 models in those areas?

The big manufacturers (Eezi-Awn, Hannibal, Overland, Howling Moon) offer great products with a steep price attached. Those that are enthusiast can recognize this and will rationalize the up front cost of the product based on the longevity and life expectancy of the RTT. I agree that buyer beware of the price game as you research your investment!

 

[Christophe Noel]

In the mid 90s, I was one of the test users for Mountain Hardware's prototype tents. I've slept a thousand nights in tents. That said, I've only once slept in a RTT so take my opinion with a grain of salt. At first glance, most of them (including the greats) seem clunky, overpriced and out dated from the get go.

I always seem to look at them and wonder why they aren't more advanced than they are given the steep price tags. The materials are pretty basic the designs are sometimes just crude and don't even get me started on the weights and sizes of these beasts.

I think eventually, designers of these tents will begin to think outside the current design box and RTTs will get more high tech, lighter, stronger and probably cheaper. One retailer of RTTs told me, "these tents have to be overbuilt....." Sure, I can see that. However, I've seen my 5 pound Bibler mountaineering tent withstand 50mph winds at 13,000ft and that tent was top of the line at half the price of most RTTs.

If these tents really catch on, I think the designers will begin to offer a greater depth of offerings at more price points.

My favorite: The Hannible 2m awning with walls.....FOR A GRAND! You gotta be kidding me! For $1000 more you can get a para glider!!

 

[Tucson T4R]

Flounder,

You made several good points, I'll just add a little different view.

I have had many back packing and family tents over the years including Mountain Hardware, North Face, Moss, etc..... I agree the technology of the lightwieght tents is sweet and I appreciate them for what they are designed for. However, especially in the SW sun, I like canvas tents for either RTT or Trailer tents. Mine now is a huge canvas King Kamper. The advantage is the durability of Canvas agaist the sun. Even the best high tech nylon tents don't like to being exposed to long term strong sun light.

For tents like RTT or trailer incorporated, I prefer the old standby of canvas over today high tech lightweight fabrics. That being said, even though you are using canvas, taking advantage of every other advancement in tent design should be taken advantage of.

 

[Christophe Noel]

The advantage is the durability of Canvas agaist the sun. Even the best high tech nylon tents don't like to being exposed to long term strong sun light.

You make a good point with the durability of canvas. UV is a monster. However, most of these RTTs don't spend that much time exposed to the elements. Probably no more so than my higher mountaineering jaunts where a tent might spend 3 weeks at altitude. I also think fabrics like those used by Bibler would be ideal for a RTT. As for design, personally I dont need a tent to just spring open. I'm lazy, but not THAT lazy. I don't mind popping a pole in place here or there. Again, a single wall tent would be great on a roof. It could take up 1/4 the space at a fraction of the weight. In fact, I've often thought of using one of my single wall tents on my roof.

One downside to canvas: Even when treated with stuff like zeolite or other anti-microbials, canvas can really whip up a funk!

But....I'm the rookie with this stuff. I'm pretty sure I'm off the mark. Seriously.

 

[Scott Brady]

Christophe,

Come get my trailer for a weekend of camping and several nights in the Eezi-Awn. The 30 second set-up and plush mattress will slowly work on your defences :rappel:

 

[gjackson]

Probably no more so than my higher mountaineering jaunts where a tent might spend 3 weeks at altitude.

I think the key is use. My RTT has seen 225 consecutive days of use with additional sporadic weeks-at-a-time of use. It is showing a little wear around the edges, but works perfectly. Quick set up time and great comfort are key. Any ground tent on the market would show considerable strain after that kind of use. As far as the canvas funk goes, you just have to clean it properly. Not hard, but somewhat time consuming.

cheers

 

[Spikepretorius]

Canvas:
For: Warmer in the cold, cooler in the heat
Against: Weight

Nylon:
For: Cheap, disposable.
Against: Sauna in the heat, not so warm in the cold.

Howling Moon is is VERY popular over here and offer value for money compared to other brands.

 

[Christophe Noel]

I knew I was poking a hornets nest when I chimed in on this one. I also knew I would get to hear some real world opinions from the experts.

I've used conventional tents in temps as high as 100 degrees and as cold as -18. Some of my tents have easily seen 200 days of use. While I agree canvas is bullet proof, I still think polyester or nylon fabrics are not as lame as many think.

I just think eventually RTT designers will step outside their current box and design some really killer tents. The technology is there. There really is no reason they HAVE to use canvas. Maybe it's time for me to bust out my sewing machine again!!!

Thanks Scott for the nice offer. Keep in mind, I'm a cave man of outdooring. I just recently evolved to the point I don't drag my knuckles and now sit in a camp chair. There's talk of us using a cooler too!

 

[Desertdude]

I had a chance to experiance the new Carbon Fiber Columbus RTT

The medium size tent weighs in at a mear 82 lbs - the tent sets up in less than 30 seconds - with all your bedding inside ready to go - and wraps up in about the same amount of time. It has a few things about it I would like to change but all and all a very modern tent.

http://web.mac.com/desertdude/Clolumbus.Tent.Site/index.html


http://www.autohome.it/file_gb/columbus_carbonfiber.html

 

[articulate]

I knew I was poking a hornets nest when I chimed in on this one....While I agree canvas is bullet proof, I still think polyester or nylon fabrics are not as lame as many think.

I just think eventually RTT designers will step outside their current box and design some really killer tents. The technology is there. There really is no reason they HAVE to use canvas. Maybe it's time for me to bust out my sewing machine again!!!

I actually think you're on to something, though. Isn't the Flippac made of a nylon or something similar? Same with the Italian tents, Maggiolina?

The material they (RTT manufacturers) use comes from a certain priority of goals for their tents, I'm sure. Canvas is dark and heavy, and would probably withstand a Saharan sand storm. Right, as though I'm going to the Sahara anytime soon. However, my backpacking tent allowed a particularly annoying amount of sand to come through the mesh doors while camping on a windy beach. My ears and mouth were full of sand by morning. Yummy. There are a few benefits to canvas.

And there are great benefits to nylon.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I actually think you're on to something, though. Isn't the Flippac made of a nylon or something similar?

You are right, Mark. The Flip Pac and WilderNest both use urethane coated heavy nylon material.

 

[GeoRoss]

I think that I have to agree with Flounder on this. I really don't see why ripstop nylon is getting such a bad rap. There is no reason a well designed, durable RTT cannot be made with lighter materials IMHO. I will say that I have no personal experience with any RTT, just what I have seen in camps and in pictures. I just can see more of a role for modern materials to be used in the design. Canvas has its place, but it doesn't have to be the end all material for this application.

My field tent (TNF) rain fly has finally given up the ghost. It is 4 years old and after scanning my notes it has ~400 nights of use. ~65 above 15,000ft. I just purchased an new fly from TNF for $150. UV does damage nylon, but the rainfly is replaceable for little money and I really doubt the average person will put a tent through this kind of use in such a short amount of time.

As to heat, I am only in the tent at night. When possible I set up where there will be afternoon shade if possible. I worry more about rain. Sand getting into a tent can be a real problem. That is why I am a fan of the 3-4 convertible tents. Also, a RTT would help by getting the tent off the ground.

I would love to get a RTT, but with three kids it just isn't a viable solution at the moment.

 

[Mike S]

Tent fabric design goals

Pasquale - great photos! The Columbus Carbon Fiber is a very advanced tent - we are pretty proud of it.

The cost of roof top tents IS higher than those designed for backbacking and occassional camp use. They are more complex, are more exposed, and must operate in widely varied climates. In addition, they must be suitable for secure mounting and transport on the roof of a vehicle at high speeds, and over very rough terrain.

The Autohome tent models use different fabrics in each basic model, depending on design specifications. These tents are designed to operate in a variety of climatic conditions. It is fairly simple to build a tent for tropical climates, but designing one that works well in both tropical, temperate, and very cold climates requires some careful thinking - especially about materials.

The Maggiolina does not use nylon fabric, it employs Dralon, a European fabric that provides excellent water repellancy and breathability. It retains it feel and flexibility down to, and well below, zero degrees.

The Columbus models use a fabric called AirTex that has properties similar to GoreTex. It is much more rugged than similar fabrics. Both Dralon and AirTex perform well in both warm and cold climates, which is critical.

The OverLand tent uses a fabric with a acrylic weft and cotton fibers - 420 gram - a heavy duty fabric that has properties similar to the famous 60/40 fabric. It is mold proofed.

All tent fabrics used in single wall fabric tents are a compromise between breathability and water resistance, and between weight and durability. We expect our tents to last well beyond ten years, and to protect occupants in any weather. We must also bear in mind the weight restrictions imposed by vehicle and rack system manufacturers in the US. In other countries, roof top loading specifications may be more generous.