Series III front axle swivel ball

[Alaska Mike]

This is my first closed knuckle axle in awhile. I'm farily certain under all of that grime on the front axle is two pitted swivel balls, although I'm not seeing any real leaks. I know this can mean one of four things:
1. The swivel balls and seals are in perfectly servicable shape.
2. The previous owner added the Land Rover additive to thicken the oil.
3. The previous owner loaded it up with grease.
4. The whole thing is empty.

I'm fully expecting to see one of the last two, based on what I've seen so far. It's very likely that I'll be replacing the swivel balls and pretty much all of the consumable parts for the axle. That gets kinda spendy, but I'd rather do it right the first time.

If anyone knows of any alternate or improved parts, please let me know. I expect that I'll be buying from one of the usual Land Rover parts houses, so any advice for what to axoid and what to look for would be appreciated. Also, any tips you may have to make it go smoother would make my life easier.
Thanks
-Mike

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

Mike, I've never seen a swivel ball axle, either Rover or Toyota, that didn't seep grease or oil and get really grimy over time, so I wouldn't assume the balls are bad if I were you. If you do decide to rebuild them and want to upgrade, look at the axles from SeriesTrek. Much stronger than stocl, although upgrading the front axles on a Series vehicle isn't as important as doing the rears.

 

[Martyn]

Had a Series IIa for 10 years with no leaks. The joints were packed with grease before I got them, when I owned the vehicle, and the new owner still packs them with grease.

I don't know the pros and cons of filling the swivel joints with grease but the joints were and are clean with no oozing. I think you are going to have to disassemble them to find out what's going on.

 

[Alaska Mike]

Thanks guys.
I do have Seriestrek axleshafts (27 spline) on order for the rear, but the front was going to stay stock for now. If I start breaking them, I'll look at the 27 spines for the front as well. A Disco I third member with the ARB adapter rin and the stock gears is going in the rear, so that will be the same way I go if I decide to do the front.

My main concern with running the Rover additive/90wt, a 50/50 mix of 90wt and grease, or straight grease is that we run a lot of water up here. Most major trails have at least one crossing that is above the hubs. The thicker combinations don't leak, but they are also a pain to change when they get contaminated. I might try a thicker gear oil, like an 85W-140 and see what that will do. It might take longer to drain, but hopefully it will still lubricate the swivel bearings and axle ujoints enough.

You're probably right- I need to clean up the swivel balls and see how bad it actually is. TerriAnn has a good page on her site about it. They don't have to be perfect, but I'd like them to be functional and reliable.

 

[I Leak Oil]

You'll never get a quantitative answer on the 90wt vs. rover CV grease debate. Your point about changing the fluid after water get in there is a valid one. Much tougher to get the water out with grease in there, nearly impossible without taking it apart. If you do have to get parts go with the genuine, especially the railco pin and bushing on the top. I've never had good luck with aftermarket swivel pins and bushings, they just never went together without removing material from somewhere to get the preload right.
I use 90wt, as the rover gods intended......
Jason T.

 

[Alaska Mike]

Yep, from all I've been reading the Genuine swivels are also much superior to the aftermarket ones available. If I spend the money, I'm going to try to spend it only once. Hopefully once I get in there all I will need is the bushing, bearing, seals, and other minor parts, but we're still a little ways away from that.

 

[UnfrozenCaveman]

Ummmm, these are indeed Series front axles, right ... with u-joints, not CV's, right?

They won't like grease, better keep 90wt in there.

 

[Alaska Mike]

They're u-joints from what I can tell, but a lot of Brits (and Brit wannabes) seem to call them CVs. I've seen plenty of people run them in grease on Toyotas, but I'm not saying if that's right or wrong. I've just seen it enough. I was planning on running oil of some sort- whatever works and is sustainable.

I am curious if the u-joints are really that much different than open knuckle joints in that they have to be bathed in oil to survive.

 

[Mercedesrover]

Hi Mike. Greetings from northern Ontario!
The newer Rover axles are 24-spline, not 27.
You guys might want to try Lucas Hub Oil. It's thicker than 90w but more viscus than CV grease or the like. It's about the same viscosity as their oil stabilizer if you've ever seen that. It really helps cut down on leaks but is still thin enough to lube the wheel bearings...The real problem with running CV grease.

Jim

 

[revor]

Years ago I purchased four military (military 109's) front axles that had leather gators on them, laced together at the top. Within these gators can only be described as sawdust. They ran 90 wt. in the balls and it seemed that the sawdust/gator/double lip military swivel ball seal combination kept things from leaking all over the place and also kept the balls/swivel seals in great shape!
Kudos to the guy that thought that one up..
Later when I bought a few military 110 front axles the gators where full of fine dirt! The balls where still good but the seals where toast.. Apparently the smart Series mechanic retired!

 

[Alaska Mike]

The newer Rover axles are 24-spline, not 27.
You guys might want to try Lucas Hub Oil. It's thicker than 90w but more viscus than CV grease or the like. It's about the same viscosity as their oil stabilizer if you've ever seen that. It really helps cut down on leaks but is still thin enough to lube the wheel bearings...The real problem with running CV grease.

My mistake. I've been looking at spline counts so much lately that I got confused. I expect it will happen again.

I thought the wheel bearings (running on the stub axle) were sealed off from the swivel ball and were greased like a regular wheel bearing. I did notice that the axle shaft bearing that sits inboard of the swivel ball has no seal. Is this the bearing you were talking about. I was mainly considering the u-joint, and completely forgot about any bearing that might be spinning in there on the axle. I guess I assumed that portion was isolated from the swivel ball.

I'll have to look into the Lucas Hub Oil. That sounds like the ticket for my needs, and may keep me from buying new swivel balls (fingers crossed).

 

[Mercedesrover]

Talking splines gets confusing...Been there, done that.

Yup, both the front and rear wheel bearings run in gear oil. The rear run in the same oil as the differential, the front bearings run in the same oil as the front u-joints. Some guys remove the inner seals and let both swivels and the front diff share the same fluid. Don't really see any advantage to it but I guess it wouldn't hurt.

I really like that Lucas Hub Oil. Give it a shot if your swivels aren't too bad. If they are, the aftermarket ones aren't that bad and if you cover them with a leather gator they seem to last long enough. Getting sandblasted and chipped from rocks really shortens their lives and the gators prevent that.

jim

 

[Alaska Mike]

So no more packing wheel bearings with grease? :wings:

I guess that makes the swivel ball seal even more important than I thought. Does most water generally work its way down to the swivel ball, or do you still have to remove the hubs to clear it after water crossings? I've had wheel bearing failures before, both greased and gear oil lubricated, and it wasn't fun. Sometimes you do everything you're supposed to and they still die.

I imagine if you ran a thicker mixture you could still get away with greasing the wheel bearings for lubrication, but this sounds like a more sustainable method if you don't let the oil level get too low. I guess everything is a tradeoff.
-Mike