Sidewall strength, tire pressure, and tire quality

[andrew61987]

When I got my 2008 Tacoma last year (my first 4x4, I'm somewhat new to all this) it had a new set of Dakota Definity 245/75/R16 A/T tires, load range E which I believe to be the heaviest duty tire in terms of load range you can reasonably put on this truck. I was suspect of the tire brand because I had never heard of it, but they were new so I run them. 20k on them now.

Over the weekend I punctured a sidewall on my front left on a rough and narrow 4WD-only route up in Shasta-Trinity NF. Not huge rocks, small rocks and lots of fallen deadwood. I don't know how it happened. I believe it was probably during a tight 5 point turn around after coming across a huge fallen tree blocking the trail, I heard the hissing about 5-10 minutes after.

I was not aired down because I don't currently have a way to air up.

It's obviously my screw up for abusing the tires and still learning. My question is how big a factor did my air pressure and tire quality play? I was under the impression that these tires were pretty tough (10 ply) and I'm surprised I blew one doing what I did. Are there tires out there that have notably tougher sidewalls more suited to my uses or do I just need to chill out and be more careful? Note that I use it to commute about 180 miles a week when not exploring off road but I'm not against losing some road comfort for wilderness peace of mind.

 

[Trophycummins]

Puncture resistance is dependent on make and model of the tire, not the load rating.

On anything I've owned that has had dual usage, dirt and road, I've run a Toyo brand tire. Bfgoodrich tires are known for their weak sidewalls. Those Dakota tires you have are a pep boys house brand.


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[IdaSHO]

Operating pressures play a BIG role in puncture resistance...

So load rating does play a part in puncture resistance.

A tire with a higher load rating can be operated at a lower PSI than a similar tire with a lower load rating, making it less susceptible to damage.

 

[ExplorerTom]

BFGoodrich tires are known for their weak sidewalls.

They are?

 

[Trophycummins]

Operating pressures play a BIG role in puncture resistance...

So load rating does play a part in puncture resistance.

A tire with a higher load rating can be operated at a lower PSI than a similar tire with a lower load rating, making it less susceptible to damage.

You're talking about walking a fine line, pressure and puncture resistance are not inversely proportional, run too low of a pressure and you'll get sidewall issues too.

This past year at KOH, those running low pressures are the ones that had the most cut and pinched sidewalls.

Load range is no indicator of sidewall abrasion resistance, it is an indicator of tire load capacity, and a bad one at that. You can have two "load range e" tires, one with a max load of 3525 and another of 4300.

Bfgoodrich was known for their terrible sidewalls until they came out with their krawler line. I experienced this poor fate as I had two 37" km's that ripped in the same trip, 350 miles old. This is the reason bfg redesigned the atko and km.





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[Buddha.]

It's my understanding that number of plys in the sidewall doesn't always correlate to load rating.

 

[Robert Bills]

Easy answer for offroading in the Shasta Trinity NF or other areas with sharp volcanic rock and logging debris - Cooper Discoverer ST/Maxx. When I was debating which new tire to purchase I had the opportunity to speak with the person in charge of tire purchases for the Forest Service pickups in the area. He reported fewer problems with the ST/Maxx than any of the "flagship" brands such as BFG, Goodyear and Firestone. I have had no issues with mine. One of the selling points to me was the extra puncture resistance of 3-ply sidewalls.

 

[Hilldweller]

Dakota Definity tires are made by Cooper, a good brand ----- but it's their cheapest tire and were likely put on the truck before the sale because of their price.

I'd say you were unlucky. Logs with little broken branches are surprisingly sharp and have torn many a sidewall. Airing down helps traction and preventing flats in the tread portion. Sidewall tears not so much.

But get a compressor. You'll need to air down eventually.

 

[NatersXJ6]

No Magic

There is no magic formula for load and puncture resistance. Sidewalls are always vulnerable. Most / many sidewalls are only 2 or 3 ply no matter what the tire is sold as. Most of those stated ply layers are tread only.

In general, I would think load range E tires on a light truck is a waste unless you are carrying a huge load. I personally believe they don't flex enough at low pressure and are thus susceptible to puncture. On the flip side, too low of pressure with a soft tire means pinches and tears. My F250 has E range BFG Rugged Trails, designed to be run at 70 psi, and I dont start to see flex until a low tire gets to 20 or so. My jeep has C range BFG mt stock, stated to run 37 PSI, and they are flexing the sidewalks decently at 20 or so too, although I often run at 15 on the trail.

Experience is the only thing that will eventually match your equipment, driving style, and terrain. A good spotter helps. Someone who cares about what you spend on tires helps. When you get frustrated and push the stupid pedal (on the right in case you weren't sure) you end up destroying tires and stuff.

The best way to learn some of this is to go out with a club and talk with everyone. Just remember that all opinions (including this one) are inherently biased, so you need to form your own from all available resources.

 

[1stDeuce]

:iagree: What that guy said is spot on.

You can hedge your bets with a heavier tire, whether that means upping the load range or going to something with more sidewall plys. Airing down appropriately is never going to hurt in my experience, and learning to drive appropriately for conditions, vehicle setup, etc just comes with time. Wet conditions make it easier for sharps to puncture a tire, so be mindful of that too.

I can't stress enough about airing down... It not only helps the tires, and your truck, but it keeps the trails in better shape too by providing a big improvement in traction. Even if you can't air back up the second you hit pavement, you can air down some, and then just take it easy to the nearest "filling station".

FWIW, all the tires I've cut down were at street pressure. Aired down, I've run thousands of miles over horrible terrain, and have yet to get a single puncture.
:smiley_drive: (We need a "knock on wood" emoticon...)

 

[ExplorerTom]

Even if you can't air back up the second you hit pavement, you can air down some, and then just take it easy to the nearest "filling station".

The first 2 years of my 4wheeling were done without a compressor. And I now know where all the gas stations that offer air are around those trails.

 

[shmabs]

Tire Strength

Every tire has its failure point, but there are certainly some that are more durable than others.

My experience has shown me that tire failures can be mitigated by the following:

Selecting the right tire for your uses
Inflating to the correct pressure
Driving with care/caution
Knowing your terrain

With that being said, there will always be that freak failure, or that person that destroys any tire not made solid steel.

I work for the USFS here on the western district of the Shasta Trinity NF doing fleet vehicle maintenance inspection and coordination. I have been very happy with the ST MAXX, the AT3 and I now have two trucks running the STT PRO. For the vehicles that regularly get used in remote areas and our rough roads, the ST MAXX is my go to tire.

Just because I'm curious where was this 4wd only route? I just moved here about 6 months ago and am always looking for trails and people to go exploring with.

Mike

 

[Inyo_man]

I'm sure you've most likely have seen this video, but here is a Cooper test that shows the benefits of airing down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kz8mmLkeks

 

[andrew61987]

Every tire has its failure point, but there are certainly some that are more durable than others.

My experience has shown me that tire failures can be mitigated by the following:

Selecting the right tire for your uses
Inflating to the correct pressure
Driving with care/caution
Knowing your terrain

With that being said, there will always be that freak failure, or that person that destroys any tire not made solid steel.

I work for the USFS here on the western district of the Shasta Trinity NF doing fleet vehicle maintenance inspection and coordination. I have been very happy with the ST MAXX, the AT3 and I now have two trucks running the STT PRO. For the vehicles that regularly get used in remote areas and our rough roads, the ST MAXX is my go to tire.

Just because I'm curious where was this 4wd only route? I just moved here about 6 months ago and am always looking for trails and people to go exploring with.

Mike

Great to hear from a USFS employee Mike. Our National and State Parks are beautiful but for me nothing beats the bare bones freedom and isolation you get by grabbing a USFS map, picking some random peaks, and connecting them with whatever forest roads look like fun. Find a couple sleeping spots along the way and I have myself a weekend.

If you have a Shasta Trinity map handy, find Hayfork Bally (AWESOME lookout, by the way) at the bottom of square D8. Follow 33N52 Northish for 2-3 miles and it comes to a 5 way intersection with CR 16. 33N45 heads North and 16 runs east-west, however heading northeast is a steep, obviously lightly traveled road labelled 33N32 on the map, no physical label. It goes for several miles along the top of Hayfork Divide with lots of steep ascents and descents and logging debris to negotiate. About halfway through it's blocked with several fallen trees that you have to go around, and at one point you have to shoot down to 33N57 (which is an easy road that runs parallel) to go around some other fallen logs but you can get back on the trail by bearing left a bit later. Eventually the trees disappear and you have a couple long climbs and descents through a sort of chaparral landscape (maybe it's been cleared recently?) and at the bottom of a long descent, heading towards Rattlesnake Gap, there is a huge fallen tree blocking the path with no way around. The trail is tight and I had to back out uphill about a quarter mile which is where I popped my sidewall.

 

[shmabs]

Awesome! I'll be sure to check it out!

Mike