Solid state batteries will make electric expedition vehicles practical.

[CappyJax]

Samsung is supposed to be fully into mass production by 2027 with their solid state batteries boasting a volumetric density of 900Wh/L. I did a little math on putting a battery pack in between the frame rails of a LMTV. I don't know what the pack volumetric density will be, but considering that they won't need much in the way of heating or cooling, it may be close to 900Wh/L. If that is the case, a 2MWh battery pack would be doable and would provide over 1,000 miles of range. Charging at 350kW would take over 5 hours, but with that much range, you just park at the charger over night and take advantage of the lower charging prices. Charging 10% to 100% would cost $432 at 0.24 cents per kWh. But maybe you can get a bulk discount.

A 22kW home charger would do it in around 80 hours, but cost you closer to $180.

However, my idea would be to have three layers of solar panels with two layers sliding out on either side giving a total of around 7.5KW. This would give you about 20 miles in range on a nice sunny day. So, you could find a dispersed camping area and stay for 14 days, then have 280 of free range to find another dispersed camping area.

But you have to be rich to consider something like this, because I have read that the batteries will be between $400 and $800 per kWh making the battery pack cost between $800,000 and $1.6M. Ouch! Maybe closer to 2030.

Samsung SDI to start mass production of solid-state batteries in 2027 - electrive.com

Samsung SDI aims to achieve an energy density of 900 Wh/L with its solid-state batteries and believes it is on course to start mass production in 2027. So far, the company has avoided making such a statement on series production readiness.

www.electrive.com

 

[tirod3]

No doubt solid state shows the promise, what consumers need is a competitive cost per watt. It takes time and new adopters willing to finance that development. Like 3D printing - hot topic in 2010, now it's 2024 and there are major improvements, but the tech itself is suited for low production, not mass implementation, much the same as CNC vs drop forging. it takes time for a machine to work three axis to make a 3D part, a drop forge does that all in one stroke, then the final machining can be done as minimally as possible.

As the volume of parts to be produced goes up, the fabricating method best suited for it changes, with higher initial costs that have to be spread out over more units to be competitively prices. Solid state batteries are not different. There are also risks involved, having worked in a plant making thermal batteries and the known issues with lithium, how to fabricate the solid elements, keep them separated, and prevent burning down the plant in the process comes to mind. It's nice to see solid state being forecast in the near future, what could finance a lot of market introduction is the same thing that computers enjoyed - millions of chips running EFI computers in cars. Can we get solid state batteries in flashlights? Will they double run times for the same output? There's a kazillion LED lights sold annually, a $5 upcharge for a solid state with C charging port built in would be more than acceptable on the market for the increased power and life. That is where the consumer becomes familiar with new tech and buys into it.

 

[jkam]

When solid state batteries become widely available, they at first will be priced very high.
It will be at least a few years before prices will be at the point of mass adoption.
And by then, other battery technology will be ready to take over.
A constant battle for sure.

 

[driveby]

This is good progress for sure. When samsung introduced their 30TB flash drive ~8 years ago, it was the same price as a Honda Accord. So yeah, time (and market volume) will definitely solve some of the cost issues. Having said that, when the volume increases this will be like NiCaD to LiFePO4 improvements. Can you imagine an induction cooktop in a rig in 2010? Now it's a good idea...

 

[tirod3]

Might be premature to declare induction cooktops a "good idea " when most kitchen stoves on the residential market still aren't. Same in RV's, propane is still dominant and for a simple reason, cost per btu/watt.

Induction requires a ferrous metal pot or plate to heat, and its overall efficiency is dependent on using power that is always converted from a souce into electricity, rather than direct like town gas, propane, or white gas. Adding a level of complication to a device always has a downside, converting power to electricity involves another step in inefficiency. Much like the twice daily coal train that passes my metro to generate electricity in Mobile AL. The EVs there run on coal from Wyoming and the trains have been running for decades, long before Tesla's first unit came off the line. That is a diesel powered train.

Cost pet watt/btu is what it all comes down to.

 

[crazysccrmd]

Might be premature to declare induction cooktops a "good idea " when most kitchen stoves on the residential market still aren't. Same in RV's, propane is still dominant and for a simple reason, cost per btu/watt.

Induction requires a ferrous metal pot or plate to heat, and its overall efficiency is dependent on using power that is always converted from a souce into electricity, rather than direct like town gas, propane, or white gas. Adding a level of complication to a device always has a downside, converting power to electricity involves another step in inefficiency. Much like the twice daily coal train that passes my metro to generate electricity in Mobile AL. The EVs there run on coal from Wyoming and the trains have been running for decades, long before Tesla's first unit came off the line. That is a diesel powered train.

Cost pet watt/btu is what it all comes down to.

It’s not that complicated. A house has electricity already and in many areas they all have electric stoves. Induction is just a more efficient version. Many travel trailers are built with solar panels and batteries more than capable of running induction stoves. On a lot of modern trailers/RVs the only propane appliance now is the furnace.

Not sure what EVs, coal and diesel electric locomotives have to do with the rest of the topic.

 

[tirod3]

All emerging tech has high early adopter pricing, and just become some are beta testing new ideas doesn't mean it's a proven commodity yet. Buy using the best cost per watt and let others pioneer on their dime. They aren't purchasing your equipment for you or donating to offset your costs, but they will try to sell you something as long as you pay their rates. Buyer be aware.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

I'm sorry? Did you say charging from 10% to 100% would cost over $432 and get 1,000 miles? That's $216 for 500 miles

No doubt I'm missing the point here, but call me when the cost isn't two and three times what it cost me now. Then, THEN, I'll be excited.

This brings to mind all the fuss made of so called private space ventures - with ex NASA engineers and astronauts - flew up into the sky real high for a minute. Now they want to go to the moon...Damn, we did that 50 and 60 years ago. Lemme know when something consequential happens.

 

[crazysccrmd]

I'm sorry? Did you say charging from 10% to 100% would cost over $432 and get 1,000 miles? That's $216 for 500 miles

No doubt I'm missing the point here, but call me when the cost isn't two and three times what it cost me now. Then, THEN, I'll be excited.

To be fair he’s talking about that cost/range in a LMTV. With a diesel LMTV getting about 6mpg that’s a cost of $616 to go 1000 miles (paid $3.69 for diesel yesterday).