SOS - Problems with Camburg Ball Joint UCA Install - 06 Tacoma

[dcarlin]

So, long story short, I ordered the relatively new Camburg Ball Joint Upper Control arms for my 06 Tacoma 4x4 Sport. The replacement ball-joints listed on the vendor's website (Wheelers) are the Moog Units(Part # K80811) and are significantly cheaper via another source, which is the route I went. Removal of the existing UCA's went smooth (thanks to various posts), as well as separation of the existing ball joint/knuckle. I rented a ball-joint press (cup/clamp style) and proceeded to press the ball joints into the new arms. This took a tremendous amount of force in my opinion (ie. 24 inch breaker bar extension on ratchet to push them in far enough to expose the retaining ring groove. The first arm (Driver side) seated nicely, however a semi-circular "shaving" of metal was embedded in the retaining ring groove following installation. I removed this with a flat-tip and proceeded with the second arm. Following the same procedure, the second BJ was seated in a matter of minutes, however upon inspection, the "socket" portion of the BJ cracked during the pressing. Also, I noticed that following assembly, the stud portions of the BJ's are essentially impossible to move by hand, however I never really tried before installing them.

As I needed my truck road-ready tomorrow, I reassembled the stock arms, etc and am now left with a stock truck, two expensive Camburg paperweights, a cracked Moog BJ, and a hole in my garage wall roughly the size of a ratchet with 19mm socket. To add to my frustration, I reread the entire Camburg website and found a note specifically stating that Moog BJ's are not compatible due to slightly larger sizing intedned for use in stock stamped-steel UCA's. I find it hard to belive this note was there before during the 6 months I researched these units before buying them, but I could have overlooked it. More searching of various other Toyota forums yielded multiple mentions of using Camburg arms with Moog joints but no mention of any problems. Does anyone with more knowledge/talent/experience have any input on the following:

- Has anyone encountered this problem with the Camburg arms? Or perhaps successfully used the aforementioned combination?
- What are your thoughts on ordering a replacement Moog and having a shop remove the cracked unit and press in the new? I'm guessing whatever material came out (see photo) was what was required for the moog unit to fit and a second Moog should slide in easier.
- Excluding the Camburg arms, does anyone have any experience with the Moog K80811 units? Are they just stiff to begin with? Recommendations on other OEm replacemetns (Napa, Raybestos, Toyota?)


Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Naptown]

Nevermind I'm retarded

 

[dcarlin]

More info found

Well I managed to find a stale thread on another forum (TW) that referenced this same issue having been encountered by several other folks who purchased the Camburg arms and Moog joints. It sounds like others also had problems presing the joints in (inlcuding a machine shop with hydraulic press) and that at least one person had the "cup" in the arm itself fail while pressing in the joint.

At this point I think I might be SOL... Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[4RunAmok]

Was it the cost difference as a reason to not get the uniballs? Which would solve this issue altogether, no?

Contact Camburg, and see if you can't work something out on the upgrade.

 

[Revco]

Those "cups" in the new arms coul have possibly been distorted from welding during assembly. You should contact the vendor regarding the situation, since they are the ones that recommend the MOOG part number, as well as the manufacturer to clear up any confusion.

 

[keezer37]

If Wheeler's is selling them and Camburg says not to use them, I'd be inclined to ask Wheeler's what they're doing selling them? Seems to me they've got no business doing so. I would tell them I want a refund regardless of their current condition. Then buy the proper, more expensive ones.

On a side note, yes the post should be moveable. It should offer resistance. But in no way should it be completely immovable.

Beyond that, though I don't think this should be an issue. I would be concerned if the new, proper joint slide in to easily. This may indicate some stretching of the joint housing of the arm from forcing the Moog in.

 

[dcarlin]

Progress

So after talking to Johnny at Wheelers, I confirmed that the recommended ball joints for use in the Camburg arms have always been the Moog units due to their reputation, etc. Installation issues have been noted (difficult to manually press, metal shavings in retaining groove), but nobody else has experienced the cracking of the ball joint race (see pics in OP). I agreed to send my Camburg arms back to Wheeler's so they can use their press to hopefully remove the damaged BJ and replace it. As always, they've been super easy to work with and I'm optimistic that they can figure this thing out.

With regards to the note on Camburg's site that the Moog units aren't compatible, It seems like this note was recently added following issues encountered by several other folks. Since you can't buy an OEM BJ without buying the arm, and Raybestos units have the same splined collar (unconfirmed second-hand info), it seems like the only BJ's that would fit the Camburg cups are the presumably used units that are in the arms being swapped. This doesn't make sense.

If I had to do it all over again, I'd likely still go with the Camburg BJ arms (ease of maintenance, intended use, quiet operation, $$$, in that order) but I would have had Wheelers press them in prior to shipping. Another option would be to slightly file the inside of the cup to increase it's diameter prior to pressing the BJ into place (void any warranties?). I'll post an update when this all gets resolved for the collective knowledge of the group.

 

[cam-shaft]

Stick the ball joint in the freezer prior to install and heat the uca mildly.

 

[washington taco]

If you have access to liquid nitrogen put the BJ in container of that and press in. This is how we install bushings and bearings at work (aviation).